fixed 2.9 Peterovich AI cannot correctly identify the target

[MsKatze]

Hello there!

I would like to submit a potential issue with the search & identify function of the Peterovich AI for Mi-24 Hind. Yesterday during a multiplayer session I noticed that Peterovich had significant difficulty in locating targets on open fields, even in very close range. In this case the target is a AI BMP-2 and a T-55, both stationary, with a handful of destroyed wrecks, and one friendly AI M-60 nearby. Time of the in-game session was mid-day and weather condition was clear. Aircraft was being flown without any aggressive maneuver at reasonable altitude and no battle damage had been sustained. Peterovich failed to locate the targets even after the BMP and T-55 had fired upon my aircraft, but he did warn me about the in-coming ground fire from 12 o’clock as usual.

I do notice the newly implemented changes in 2.9 for Peterovich AI to act according to target density and possible obscurity of the targets. In this case however, both targets were located in open fields, and no bush or tree or building could obscure Peterovich’s view. It was also not likely for Peterovich to be overloaded as there weren’t too many targets for Peterovich to process. Swapping a fresh aircraft and flew to the same target area did not fix the issue, neither did re-entering the server provide any help. The issue was repetitive during the whole game session.

I am therefore confused by the behavior of Peterovich and I would like to ask if you could kindly provide any assistance? Or it maybe it is a potential bug? You can find my track file as attached to this post. Thank you!

001.trk

[CrazyGman]

I've tested him in single missions. He is now way worse then even a first time player in the front seat. Things like roadside powerlines that cover less then 1% of the target now completely obscure them from him until you basically overfly them. 

In terms of actually obscured targets he's not too bad for what you'd expect but for obvious targets in the open he's more then terrible. For targets dirrectly off the nose that I myself can see and have told him to put the center of the sight over, he should pick those up right away, maybe not IFF them right away, but the previous implementation was already good at doing that.

It's way overcooked. It's like they tested to see if they could make finding targets in clutter harder, made that work, and then failed to test to see how baseline on open targets was effected.

Edited October 21, 2023 by CrazyGman

[admiki]

It seems ED just keep swinging from one extreme to the other.

Some time ago there was a discussion among BSD (Black Shark Den) about Petrovich being a force multiplier. So, we did a test, both flying single and multicrew. We had to find and destroy 10 targets in a small town that were scripted to spawn randomly. Multicrew achieved better results. While AI is (was) better at finding targets, ID and guidance to the pilot to get LOS was way worse. 

Now, semi-competent multicrew seems to be the way.

[fgwojtek1]

Hi,Since the last update (2.9) on open beta, a Mi-24 gunner AI has been having problems with spotting targets on short/medium distances. I know this is one of the features added in the latest update, but at this moment he is blind to the point of being unable to see targets closer than 1 km. Furthermore, the targets are usually unobstructed. At this point it becomes a lottery. Free fire mode is useless with Petrovich being blind. I hope this will be fixed in the next update.                                                                               

 I'm counting on you!  

[FusRoPotato]

He is extremely slow to find targets with ATGM as well, close targets out in the open. Eventually, after maybe a minute, he will spot 2 of 10 targets just 200 meters away. ATGM just became useless as solo pilot. 

[FusRoPotato]

I've had some situation where he will immediately see an entire group of 10, but at the same time, impossible to see when I attempted to look from another direction. There is definitely something very broken here but I am having trouble figuring out what it is.

Targets can be just 500 m away in open grass field and he can't see them. After searching for a minute, he can see maybe 2 of the 10. I don't necessarily think it has anything to do with powerlines or objects because for my case, there simply wasn't any. In some cases, I tasked him to select one of the targets and lock on, but came to find he thought the target was floating above a forest 200 meters away from where it actually was.

Maybe this means the actual position of the targets is being corrupted from his perspective? That might explain why he sometimes can't see anything if he thinks they are underground.

[KoN]

Can confirm while in the Grayflag servers. 

Petro can't lock or spot targets . Over and over search areas and he does not see or lock any targets with a good time limit . I can see the targets right in front of us . 

When you roll away from ground fire he locks on the roll . Very odd . 

Lots of stuttering also . 

We are so close to ground targets that missiles won't matter . 

This Petro man needs training ...lol . 

Bug report . 

[FusRoPotato]

I am getting some more consistent verifications that he thinks the enemy units are floating about 200 meters above where they actually are.

[BenBenBeartrax]

11 hours ago, KoN said:

Can confirm while in the Grayflag servers. 

Petro can't lock or spot targets . Over and over search areas and he does not see or lock any targets with a good time limit . I can see the targets right in front of us . 

When you roll away from ground fire he locks on the roll . Very odd . 

Lots of stuttering also . 

We are so close to ground targets that missiles won't matter . 

This Petro man needs training ...lol . 

Bug report . 

I can basically confirm this, also from the Grayflag servers.
Petrovic seems to find air targets quite well, on the ground it is very much hit or miss. Infantry seems to be basically impossible, ground targets are sometimes picked up fairly well, sometimes the ground unit *already engages me* with its gun and he can't lock it up.
Unfortunately the Hind crewed with the AI gunner has lost much of its effectiveness.
I understand that there should be a difference to George (from the AH-64), who has much better sensors, but when I as a pilot without a zoomable periscope can spot targets then Petrovic should be able to find them easily. And in particular if these units are already firing their weapons. If tracers or missile smoke is coming from a unit it should be trivial to find for the gunner, in my opinion. I really hope this mechanic get's properly adjusted. I find it to be very much overdone in its current iteration.

[BenBenBeartrax]

11 hours ago, FusRoPotato said:

He is extremely slow to find targets with ATGM as well, close targets out in the open. Eventually, after maybe a minute, he will spot 2 of 10 targets just 200 meters away. ATGM just became useless as solo pilot. 

I can confirm and described it here, too: 

 

[bingbean]

It is gamebreaking issue!!! Fix this asap please.

[AeriaGloria]

I request a mod to merge this thread with this one 

If we want developers to tweak it and make it more realities AND fun, let’s put all our feedback in one place 

@BIGNEWY

Edited October 22, 2023 by AeriaGloria

[AeriaGloria]

I think the delay for ID is great, I don’t think it should stop Petro from ID anymore than it used to. 
 

I just think it needs some tweaking, like adding a curve to it. Maybe in areas with some clutter/trees/dead units the ID only takes slightly longer than usual, but then in like cities/forests we get the full 10 seconds or so to scan everything. 
 

Im pretty sure they are using the ground radar API to identify the number of cluttter 

[tflash]

Am I doing something wrong? Petrovich lists targets, but I cannot select from the list like before? So I also cannot give the fire command, as he just then searches again? I'm stuck here. 

Could it be that, as there are many targets, he is still building the list for ages? 

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, tflash said:

Am I doing something wrong? Petrovich lists targets, but I cannot select from the list like before? So I also cannot give the fire command, as he just then searches again? I'm stuck here. 

Could it be that, as there are many targets, he is still building the list for ages? 

You are using short right to select a target? 

[KoN]

18 hours ago, tflash said:

Am I doing something wrong? Petrovich lists targets, but I cannot select from the list like before? So I also cannot give the fire command, as he just then searches again? I'm stuck here. 

Could it be that, as there are many targets, he is still building the list for ages? 

Are you in flat screen or VR . on a server or single player .?

I would reconfigure your key binds again in Petro Ai . 

All is working for me when a list is available . up down short right to track and lock short left to bring up flare program or cancel list  .

[HC_Official]

Petrov used to have eyes like a hawk, could spot enemy vechs from behind buildings ......................... now

He cannot spot a BMP sitting in the open in plain site from  1km away

 

It is like he went from being coded like superman to being more like Stevie Wonder

Edited October 24, 2023 by HC_Official

[tflash]

20 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

You are using short right to select a target? 

Yes, indeed, short right. But maybe I have to remap my keybindings, will try that, if it works for you it should also work for me! 

[Diesel_Thunder]

I noticed this as well last night when our squadron was flying a Foothold mission. Was doing alright with Petro but had difficultly with one tank (a T-72). This tank was near a tree, probably about 20 feet from the tree. I had no problem spotting the tank visually for me. Petro never spotted it at all, from far away or in close.

[KoN]

15 hours ago, tflash said:

Yes, indeed, short right. But maybe I have to remap my keybindings, will try that, if it works for you it should also work for me! 

I hate to say this but last night on the Greyflag server , i had a locked target list . I could not move up or down list or short right to select target .

So it looks like your right . There is a Bug here . 

9 hours ago, Diesel_Thunder said:

I noticed this as well last night when our squadron was flying a Foothold mission. Was doing alright with Petro but had difficultly with one tank (a T-72). This tank was near a tree, probably about 20 feet from the tree. I had no problem spotting the tank visually for me. Petro never spotted it at all, from far away or in close.

Yes There is a bug with Petro he cant see targets . Even if in open ground or near building . 2.9 MT . 

[KoN]

Yes Petro is broken at this given time 2.9 MT . 

[jojojung]

Same for me. Petrovic is broken

 

[Alireza.kh]

i can confirm this too. with new update AI does not see obvious targets or it find them too late.

in my opinion there are problems with new detection model:

the new delay in detection is good but not everytime. for the same area that we are searching there shouldn't be another delay. before this update we could search again quickly to select another target but now we should wait too much and loosing time and it is dangerous when you are approaching target area. the problem is that there is no way to deselect a target and go back to targets list and we need to search again.

also adding different skill levels that can change the range of target detection was not a good idea form the beginning. because mission designers can change it without any reason and this affect game play, specially in multiplayer.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Alireza.kh

[tflash]

2 hours ago, KoN said:

I hate to say this but last night on the Greyflag server , i had a locked target list . I could not move up or down list or short right to select target .

So it looks like your right . There is a Bug here . 

>>> I must confess it seems that I made a mistake, I did not invoke Petrovich through the Ctrl-V command, but was able to give him the search targets command directly, after which the target list built up, but I was not able to select a target. Once I did do Ctrl-V first however the problem was gone. 

Anyway Petro has become quite myopic, he doesn't see targets right in front. Needs a pair of glasses! 

 

[AeriaGloria]

1 hour ago, tflash said:

 

I suspected as much. I usually keep the Petro reticle on a lot, it’s annoying to need to turn to avoid AAA after a ATGM hits but then realize you’re short down is by closing the periscope