in progress MI-24p Manual?

[paco2002]

1 minute ago, admiki said:

Easy to solve. Pull as much collective as you need to go your desired speed (throttle is left at 100%). Same for anti torque.

Seriously, speed/power is not locked, it depends on environment and your own configuration.

This!

i.e. A mi24P with 10% fuel and no ammo and no weapons will need so much less colective than a fully loaded one. Also heat

[T.Power]

51 minutes ago, admiki said:

Easy to solve. Pull as much collective as you need to go your desired speed (throttle is left at 100%). Same for anti torque.

Seriously, speed/power is not locked, it depends on environment and your own configuration.

There must be plots of the engine torque curves, that's useful information, it should be calculable, I can fly the Hind just fine now, I want data.

[admiki]

Due to instruments in Russian helicopters you don't have torque curves table. Hope this will help you.

Note: there is a typo in second picture, I believe it should say 11 500 kg weight.

[AeriaGloria]

15 hours ago, T.Power said:

It would be really handy to have throttle% to speed correlation to make dialing in precise air speed easier.  Data on the torque/anti torque relationship with the collective, and there's still some dials I don't quite understand, there's a green light that comes on in certain slip situations, and proper take off/transition/landing techniques.  Most of my problems are solved due to my Winwing HOTAS and Pedals upgrade, but now's the time to weed out bad habits before they become muscle locked.

 

Any helicopter works on a bell curve, and the least power needed is usually around 100-150 kmh. You need most power in hover or at max speed 

For Mi-24P, the speed for least power needed is usually 140 kmh at lower altitudes. You will see here that collective needed is usually around 6-7 degrees and EPR gauge shows around 5-6. 

Around hover, you might need 8-10 degrees collective depending on weight and altitude, and if you really pushy either or both you might need the full 14-15 degrees. EPR will show anywhere from nominal to take off power

Around cruise at 260 kmh, the collective is at 8-10 degrees collective and EPR will show cruise or nominal power levels. 

Once you get to 11-12 collective degrees, you are at 300 kmh territory often and EPR showing near max take off power 

It will perform better with not only less weight and altitude; but should Also perform best around 17-22 degrees Celsius. EVU will decrease power a few percent. Loading wing pylons helps move CG back and make wings lift more by increasing AOA, so this can also increase performance. Loading nose gun also does the opposite. Firing your gun ammo I think moves your CG back about the same amount  that shooting two rocket pods moves it forward. 

Edited May 20, 2024 by AeriaGloria

[T.Power]

2 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Any helicopter works on a bell curve, and the least power needed is usually around 100-150 kmh. You need most power in hover or at max speed 

For Mi-24P, the speed for least power needed is usually 140 kmh at lower altitudes. You will see here that collective needed is usually around 6-7 degrees and EPR gauge shows around 5-6. 

Around hover, you might need 8-10 degrees collective depending on weight and altitude, and if you really pushy either or both you might need the full 14-15 degrees. EPR will show anywhere from nominal to take off power

Around cruise at 260 kmh, the collective is at 8-10 degrees collective and EPR will show cruise or nominal power levels. 

Once you get to 11-12 collective degrees, you are at 300 kmh territory often and EPR showing near max take off power 

It will perform better with not only less weight and altitude; but should Also perform best around 17-22 degrees Celsius. EVU will decrease power a few percent. Loading wing pylons helps move CG back and make wings lift more by increasing AOA, so this can also increase performance. Loading nose gun also does the opposite. Firing your gun ammo I think moves your CG back about the same amount  that shooting two rocket pods moves it forward. 

 

Thank you!  That's exactly the kind of data I needed, I'm an audio engineer by trade so I like to understand everything from a bottom up perspective, the reductionist perspective.

Edited May 21, 2024 by T.Power

[HC_Official]

@NineLine  sorry to bother you but is the full mi-24p manual still work  in progress ?

[kotor633]

What is the status of the manual?

Edited July 12, 2024 by kotor633

[HC_Official]

@BIGNEWY really sorry to bother you, any movement on this , it would be great to get a full manual for this module

[BIGNEWY]

28 minutes ago, HC_Official said:

@BIGNEWY really sorry to bother you, any movement on this , it would be great to get a full manual for this module

I will ask the team 

thanks

[Raffi75]

Is there anything known or has anything moved on this topic?

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, Raffi75 said:

Is there anything known or has anything moved on this topic?

Nope, just waiting, if there’s any procedures or technical information you want I can help you out 

[Raffi75]

5 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Nope, just waiting, if there’s any procedures or technical information you want I can help you out 

Thank you for your good intentions. I appreciate it.

I have no problem using the Mi-24. I am curious about the information that will be in the manual and I wanted to compare it with my knowledge. I compare the Mi-24 module with a real helicopter.

Edited August 26, 2024 by Raffi75

[AeriaGloria]

3 hours ago, Raffi75 said:

Thank you for your good intentions. I appreciate it.

I have no problem using the Mi-24. I am curious about the information that will be in the manual and I wanted to compare it with my knowledge. I compare the Mi-24 module with a real helicopter.

 

The Mi-8 manual is basically the blueprint. Like that manual you will likely get a short introduction of its history and development. Followed by brief specifications and then a detailed description of the design and equipment including specifications for all components and detailed cockpit explanation
 

Only after these sections, will there likely be a section start up, taxi, takeoff, landing, other procedures. Then weapons procedures and tables likely last. 

[Raffi75]

9 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

The Mi-8 manual is basically the blueprint. Like that manual you will likely get a short introduction of its history and development. Followed by brief specifications and then a detailed description of the design and equipment including specifications for all components and detailed cockpit explanation
 

Only after these sections, will there likely be a section start up, taxi, takeoff, landing, other procedures. Then weapons procedures and tables likely last. 

I have the impression that you described a manual that I have already read.

[Rudel_chw]

On latest changelog:

 

"NOTE: Progress made on the full manual and its English translation is in its proofreading and editing phase."

 

Hopefully it wont take long until its added to the game, thanks 

[HC_Official]

@BIGNEWY   with the new patch coming , will it contain the hind manual?

[BIGNEWY]

5 minutes ago, HC_Official said:

@BIGNEWY   with the new patch coming , will it contain the hind manual?

No not yet sorry.

[Cheese16]

A month and a half and still proofreading. Hmm. 

[kotor633]

As the saying goes: Be patient... BtW: How long has the ARC-210 been available for the A-10C & it still hasn't made it into the official A-10 manual...

[felixx75]

How can it be that the Mi-24 still doesn't have a proper manual after around 4 years? And no, the excellent Chuck's Guide doesn't count. I find that rather unsatisfactory.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks for your passion and support 

Sorry, couldnt resist

[kotor633]

Since January 18, 2024, the status is "the English translation was finished and is currently being proof read."

But there is a recurring theme: still waiting for an English manual for the JF-17 (yes, that's not ED's job, but you can trigger the third-party providers to at least provide an English-language manual), the ARC-210 is still not mentioned in the A-10C manual.

[Esac_mirmidon]

With the actual situation around DCS evolving, resources, updates, manpower hours, etc,  i really hope ED takes extra care for those little things that on the overall image are really secondary but in the end makes an important part of us to get angry or ar least pissed off.

Like, hey guys stop for a moment, just take a look about dozens of little issues we have pilled up on the to do list that are easy to fix.

Call for help to your open external beta testers and just focus on fix at least part of that, for example this topic.

 

Just take a moment ED and complete the manuals, let others outside ED, read them.

Take a moment to check if ALL THE FIXES on every update are really included and working before listing them.

Check if all third parties updates are included on the final version released.

Try to sum those little things like lights errors on modules, lack of mipmaps on several skins, lack of manuals for years, fix former missions not up to date, campaings, etc.

I think a patch with all those tiny bits of homework to make DCS cleaner and consistent will be very welcomed.

 

 

 

Edited January 21 by Esac_mirmidon

[Smashy]

1 hour ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

With the actual situation around DCS evolving, resources, updates, manpower hours, etc,  i really hope ED takes extra care for those little things that on the overall image are really secondary but in the end makes an important part of us to get angry or ar least pissed off.

Like, hey guys stop for a moment, just take a look about dozens of little issues we have pilled up on the to do list that are easy to fix.

Call for help to your open external beta testers and just focus on fix at least part of that, for example this topic.

 

Just take a moment ED and complete the manuals, let others outside ED, read them.

Take a moment to check if ALL THE FIXES on every update are really included and working before listing them.

Check if all third parties updates are included on the final version released.

Try to sum those little things like lights errors on modules, lack of mipmaps on several skins, lack of manuals for years, fix former missions not up to date, campaings, etc.

I think a patch with all those tiny bits of homework to make DCS cleaner and consistent will be very welcomed.

 

 

 

I completely agree with this.  With a game as complex as DCS, incomplete and/or inaccurate documentation and the little errors found here and there all add up to make a significant dent in the fun.  A big part of the fun for me with DCS is learning and mastering a new skill or procedure.  With the current general state of DCS documentation when something doesn't go as expected, I don't know if it's my mistake, a documentation error or a game bug.

This post deserves more visibility.  Too bad it's buried in the Hind section so maybe a dozen people will see it

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

34 minutes ago, Smashy said:

This post deserves more visibility.

Yes, it does. But similar threads in the past about training missions not working (getting bugged over time) etc have seen equally little response - sadly.