Braunn Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 21 hours ago, Zimmerdylan said: "Oh my....the sense of entitlement by some here..." That's why we are where we are as a culture today. As far as companies charging full payment way before delivery goes I agree. Very entitled. 1
Hiob Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 18 minutes ago, Braunn said: As far as companies charging full payment way before delivery goes I agree. Very entitled. They didn‘t charge us, but we choose to pay in advance voluntarily. That’s an important distinction! 9 "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"
Braunn Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 53 minutes ago, Hiob said: They didn‘t charge us, but we choose to pay in advance voluntarily. That’s an important distinction! Exactly. Thats the difference in the world now. People would never do that not too long ago.
speed-of-heat Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Braunn said: Exactly. Thats the difference in the world now. People would never do that not too long ago. Did they hide the nature of the pre-purchase... No. Did they falsely advertise that the product was fully fledged and ready to go... No. Did they give you a massive discount, for purchasing it before it was ready without any guarantees of a precise delivery date... Why yes they did. Oh and while I think about it, did they give you an opportunity to get your money back that they didn't have to, yep... Edited March 20, 2024 by speed-of-heat 10 SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware AMD 9800X3D, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO YOUTUBE CHANNEL: @speed-of-heat
Zimmerdylan Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 1 hour ago, Braunn said: As far as companies charging full payment way before delivery goes I agree. Very entitled. This is and always has been the standard way things have done in the internet software business. I am a 60 year old man and I know this. When you give your money to anyone on line for software, you agree that the software does not in any way belong to you. You are paying for the right to use their software. They reserve the right to do whatever they see fit with it and you have 0 input or control. Read the agreement that you glossed over and agreed to when you paid for it. It specifically says that they own it, you are allowed to use it and they are allowed to do whatever they want with it. You have no recourse. Everyone here should already know this stuff as it is, and always has been the standard for everything in the virtual internet age from the very beginning. Everything from Windows, to C.O.D. If you agreed to their terms, that's what you agreed to. So if this arrangement doesn't suit the purchaser, then maybe they should spend their money on something else. It is very much a buyer beware kind of thing and we all know this. So yes......Entitled. 5
Braunn Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 25 minutes ago, Zimmerdylan said: This is and always has been the standard way things have done in the internet software business. I am a 60 year old man and I know this. When you give your money to anyone on line for software, you agree that the software does not in any way belong to you. You are paying for the right to use their software. They reserve the right to do whatever they see fit with it and you have 0 input or control. Read the agreement that you glossed over and agreed to when you paid for it. It specifically says that they own it, you are allowed to use it and they are allowed to do whatever they want with it. You have no recourse. Everyone here should already know this stuff as it is, and always has been the standard for everything in the virtual internet age from the very beginning. Everything from Windows, to C.O.D. If you agreed to their terms, that's what you agreed to. So if this arrangement doesn't suit the purchaser, then maybe they should spend their money on something else. It is very much a buyer beware kind of thing and we all know this. So yes......Entitled. But this is a game. Not a necessary software program to run a business or whatever. That said, the terms have gotten way way more extensive and one sided over the past 15-20 years. You know this. I've read a few so yes, the companies writing said terms are both entitled and down right rude. So, ENTITLED goes both ways. The problem is that this bad software culture is leaking to almost every type of purchase there is. You own way less of even your physical objects now versus only 20 years ago. And here we have people defending it. Like it's perfectly normal. Well yes, if you lower the standards of what you expect to pay for it is. To be clear, I'm not complaining. I haven't paid a dime on any pre purchase here at all. Just baffled how people keep defending that business model for computer in-game objects. Keep it up and you'll be paying a subscription fee every month to play on top of the module prices like iRacing does. 1 1
Hayrake YE-ZB Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 ED, and any third party module builder, would probably love to have the consistent revenue that iRacing subscriptions generate. The subscription model would also generate the resources and customer relationship that would provide consistent upgrades and improvements. The industry isn’t going back, and you can thank the days of kids pirating games and playing for free for the changes. The market will ultimately decide, but so far, I don’t see anyone with a viable business model that can challenge the way things work now. The programmers and managers that build combat flight sims and modules could easily use their talents to make a lot more money elsewhere in RPG’s, Space, etc. A lot of flight simmers understand this, and acknowledge that we’re lucky to have them. If I thought that the ROI was lucrative on flight simulation, trust me, I’d be piling capital into a startup. Maybe some of you would enjoy giving it a shot? 1
Nodak Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 Frankly the complexity and amount of systems and machinery you guys replicate in a coded format is amazing in itself. It took an entire design team of engineers and a whole plant and many sub contractors and parts designers many years to build and assemble the real thing. And you guys have to reverse engineer it within a limited time, you don't get the latitude to decide the design since what is to be replicated is already fixed, thus making it even harder. What you guys are pulling off is nothing short of miraculous, so hats off. Not many who could do this to the levels these third party design teams do it. I'm tickled pink teams of guys like you merely exist to support this, from my perspective take all the necessary time you need and don't forget to breathe. Thanks for what you've done and do. 1
freehand Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, speed-of-heat said: Did they hide the nature of the pre-purchase... No. Did they falsely advertise that the product was fully fledged and ready to go... No. Did they give you a massive discount, for purchasing it before it was ready without any guarantees of a precise delivery date... Why yes they did. Oh and while I think about it, did they give you an opportunity to get your money back that they didn't have to, yep... Did they mention the internet connection browser in game ? Edited March 20, 2024 by freehand 1
Hiob Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 8 minutes ago, freehand said: Did they mention the internet connection browser in game ? Help! Scary browser is scary….. Just refund it then. Personally, I wouldn’t skip this impressive next step in simulation for the very theoretical (so far) and vague threat by a „browser“ in game. 3 "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"
freehand Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 4 minutes ago, Hiob said: Help! Scary browser is scary….. Just refund it then. Personally, I wouldn’t skip this impressive next step in simulation for the very theoretical (so far) and vague threat by a „browser“ in game. I do not need a refund as I have not bought the module.
Hayrake YE-ZB Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 6 minutes ago, Hiob said: Help! Scary browser is scary….. Just refund it then. Personally, I wouldn’t skip this impressive next step in simulation for the very theoretical (so far) and vague threat by a „browser“ in game. OMG, I just realized that I’m using a browser right now! Should I be worried? 4
speed-of-heat Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 18 minutes ago, freehand said: Did they mention the internet connection browser in game ? No, but, they don't mention the compiler flags they use either... That said I can still get a refund if I wanted one... 2 minutes ago, Hayrake YE-ZB said: OMG, I just realized that I’m using a browser right now! Should I be worried? No you likely shouldn't be... The threat model is different when using a browser that is likely defended by the anti-malware software installed on your PC... Compared to one where the folder in which the exe runs is typically excluded from the anti-malware to improve performance ... 4 SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware AMD 9800X3D, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO YOUTUBE CHANNEL: @speed-of-heat
Braunn Posted March 20, 2024 Posted March 20, 2024 All I'm saying is that subscription fees are imminent if you guys keep forking out cash for something they aren't even obligated to release. Or refund. Read and understand the EULA when you make a purchase. But i digress. Goooo F-4!
rfxcasey Posted March 21, 2024 Posted March 21, 2024 (edited) Did they delay the tee shirts too, still haven't gotten mine yet? Edited April 2, 2024 by rfxcasey
mondo Posted March 21, 2024 Posted March 21, 2024 11 hours ago, Braunn said: As far as companies charging full payment way before delivery goes I agree. Very entitled. It's a module for DCS, not a car you've paid thousands, tens of thousands up front for. Well, unless it's on credit. 5 hours ago, Braunn said: All I'm saying is that subscription fees are imminent if you guys keep forking out cash for something they aren't even obligated to release. Or refund. Read and understand the EULA when you make a purchase. But i digress. Goooo F-4! I'm happy paying a subscription. I know Nick said they won't do it but he also said that they can't make it viable without early access. I'd happily pay $15 a month for DCS and I don't have large sums of disposable income either. 2
draconus Posted March 21, 2024 Posted March 21, 2024 5 hours ago, mondo said: I'd happily pay $15 a month for DCS and I don't have large sums of disposable income either. You're free to buy anything from DCS store any time you want. 4 Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Quest 3 T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 21, 2024 ED Team Posted March 21, 2024 folks please stay on thread topic and keep it constructive. Off topic posts will be removed. thank you 3 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
eFirehawk Posted March 21, 2024 Posted March 21, 2024 7 hours ago, mondo said: It's a module for DCS, not a car you've paid thousands, tens of thousands up front for. Well, unless it's on credit. I'm happy paying a subscription. I know Nick said they won't do it but he also said that they can't make it viable without early access. I'd happily pay $15 a month for DCS and I don't have large sums of disposable income either. I know it's off topic but please ED do not ever make DCS or its modules subscription-based... this whole software subscription models drive me insane nowadays and I applaud ED and Heatblur by not doing it even considering the shortcomings. 7 Pentium II 233Mhz | 16MB RAM | 14.4kb Modem | 1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive | Windows 3.1 with TM Warthog & TrackIR 5
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 21, 2024 ED Team Posted March 21, 2024 2 minutes ago, eFirehawk said: I know it's off topic but please ED do not ever make DCS or its modules subscription-based... this whole software subscription models drive me insane nowadays and I applaud ED and Heatblur by not doing it even considering the shortcomings. we have no plans for subscriptions. Again lets stay on topic here. thank you 8 3 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Hiob Posted March 21, 2024 Posted March 21, 2024 (edited) Subscriptions are the bane of modern society. A perfect way to slowly cook the frog without it noticing. I absolutely love ED for the fact, that they stay away from the idea! @BIGNEWY can you say something to the idea, that the random slowdowns some of the F4 beta testers experienced, are similar in nature or maybe in some way connected to the random stutters/slowdowns that some people unfortunately still experience with 2.9? Perhaps advancements achieved by Heatblur can benefit DCS as a whole? Edited March 21, 2024 by Hiob 5 "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 22, 2024 ED Team Posted March 22, 2024 off topic posts removed. 13 hours ago, Hiob said: @BIGNEWY can you say something to the idea, that the random slowdowns some of the F4 beta testers experienced, are similar in nature or maybe in some way connected to the random stutters/slowdowns that some people unfortunately still experience with 2.9? Perhaps advancements achieved by Heatblur can benefit DCS as a whole? No I don't think it is related, HeatBlur made it clear why there is the delay with their statement. Just need to be supportive and patient, it will be worth the wait. thank you 7 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Raisuli Posted March 22, 2024 Posted March 22, 2024 On 3/20/2024 at 3:02 PM, speed-of-heat said: No, but, they don't mention the compiler flags they use either... That said I can still get a refund if I wanted one... I asked for a refund and got crickets back, which makes me think that was a bluff. The way things are set up now it should be useful as an AI aircraft, at least. It will be pretty.
t_hedlund Posted March 23, 2024 Posted March 23, 2024 4 hours ago, Raisuli said: I asked for a refund and got crickets back, which makes me think that was a bluff. The way things are set up now it should be useful as an AI aircraft, at least. It will be pretty. Raisuli, did you contact them thru https://store.heatblur.com/pages/contact-us or write us directly to support@heatblur.se? I don't remember what discord server it was but there were a few that mentioned that they had gotten refund, so I don't believe that they are bluffing. www.tomhedlund.com Modules: A-10C, A-10CII. F-16, AV8B, F-5E, F-14, F/A-18C, P-51, BF-109, F-86, FC3, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mig-15, Mig-21, YAK-52, L-39. Maps: NTTR, PG, Normandy. Syria... Others: Super Carrier, WWII Asset Pack
Raisuli Posted March 23, 2024 Posted March 23, 2024 1 hour ago, t_hedlund said: Raisuli, did you contact them thru https://store.heatblur.com/pages/contact-us or write us directly to support@heatblur.se? I don't remember what discord server it was but there were a few that mentioned that they had gotten refund, so I don't believe that they are bluffing. Uh...probably the contact us page. I think I used support when I wanted to give them money for something else. Now you have me doubting myself (which isn't really hard to do, honestly). 1
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