DCS: CH-47F FAQ Discussion

[Slippa]

Everybody taken their meds this morning?

I’d hope for a lot of things mentioned already for the Chinook, besides being able to fly it. I don’t feel that inclined to shell out £70 on a promise though then be posting in a bug thread pleading for promises to be fulfilled. I own the super carrier too as well as owning a fleet of rapidly deteriorating props. There’s a lot of ifs and buts at the minute. I’d buy the Chinook, even though I have the AH-64 with all it’s foibles and I never fly it. I’d want to try it out first though and to do that I’d have to bend over to the new two-step trial system too.

It’s probably a long way off to give it too much thought yet anyhow. Couple of weeks at least .

[BIGNEWY]

9 minutes ago, Slippa said:

Everybody taken their meds this morning?

I’d hope for a lot of things mentioned already for the Chinook, besides being able to fly it. I don’t feel that inclined to shell out £70 on a promise though then be posting in a bug thread pleading for promises to be fulfilled. I own the super carrier too as well as owning a fleet of rapidly deteriorating props. There’s a lot of ifs and buts at the minute. I’d buy the Chinook, even though I have the AH-64 with all it’s foibles and I never fly it. I’d want to try it out first though and to do that I’d have to bend over to the new two-step trial system too.

It’s probably a long way off to give it too much thought yet anyhow. Couple of weeks at least .

Early access does not suit everyone, we understand that and waiting until you are satisfied is not a problem. We are happy for your support when you are ready.

Pre-order gives you the chance to get a good discount, currently $48.99 https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/ch-47f/

thank you 

[Mohamengina]

1 hour ago, MoleUK said:

Ultimately DCS is still the best helo sim there is, wouldn't be here if it wasn't. But yea it's a little worrying.

I know many wouldn't like the idea of unrealistically aping the gunship chinook variant a bit, but it would give a bit more of a fallback to rely on re: features while we wait. Though it's likely too late to pivot a bit in that direction maybe, even if ED was open to the idea.

I'll never stop banging that Guns-A-Go-Go drum though.

 

would rather have the guns-a-go-go version than the modern version but would be cool if ED used the modern version to fast track the guns version at some point

 

Edited April 24, 2024 by Mohamengina

[HE5405]

12 hours ago, NineLine said:

Why is only an M-60 gun shown in the video?
We will have options for this where you can choose either the M-60 or the M-240H. 

 

Will options for miniguns be added later? 

[Mohamengina]

45 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Mobile FARPS basically using the CH-47F as a refuelling station 

will it be able to rearm ground forces and aircraft as well?

Edited April 24, 2024 by Mohamengina

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, Mohamengina said:

will it be able to rearm ground forces and aircraft as well?

 

Logistics is planned, I hope we can share more details soon, we may even have a newsletter dedicated to the topic in the future. 

thanks

[rurounijones]

> We can say that we are developing a novel logistics system for the CH-47F that dynamically allows the player to determine what is loaded and unloaded from the aircraft based on weight and area.

Will this be accessible via the scripting system (e.g. setting load & unload zones to integrate with this system, limiting what can / cannot be loaded) ? Will there be events emitted to the MSE to allow for scripts to react to loading and unloading events? Will scripts be able to load / unload the aircraft themselves without UI. (e.g. Deploy troops immediately on landing without needing pilot interaction)

Alternatively. Will ED actually actively collaborate with server owners, mission makers and scripters so that a system that meets their needs, as well as any of ED's needs, is delivered?

Edited April 24, 2024 by rurounijones

[Kip336]

34 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Logistics is planned, I hope we can share more details soon, we may even have a newsletter dedicated to the topic in the future. 

thanks

So Logistics is planned (And I'm very happy for that), but Logistics/CTLD will not be available upon early access release?

[BIGNEWY]

5 minutes ago, Kip336 said:

So Logistics is planned (And I'm very happy for that), but Logistics/CTLD will not be available upon early access release?

CTLD is a community script, I am sure it will work with the CH-47F. 

We are working on our own logistics system for DCS, that will come later in early access, it is high priority. 

thank you 

[Benno]

Apologies if this comes across as rude, but are we going to get any real answers in this thread?

 

Nineline said to post questions, I was the first to reply and was totally ignored?

[Phantom_Mark]

6 hours ago, ghashpl said:

(not negative but rather constructive post)

I have in mind the SuperCarrier in perspective. This module is not changed since release (may 2020). (Adding light sticks to deck crew and more lights levels is just a cosmetics)
Saying "we are waiting for the core game to change". It's been 4 years without any progress.
"We are working in the background". It's been 4 years without any progress.
"EA is not for everybody". It's been 4 years where I paid whole price.

I think there should be some time frames. I do like what ED has done with Afgan preorder - "we're not releasing whole map, next parts are planned in 3 months interval".
This is something that shows how long a promise is.

Fat cow, water landing, CSAR, internal transport - all cool. But I would like to see some dates.

I think ED is rushing this module and I remember what happened to F-16 and the apologies from ED side after that.
Two months before the release and "we still don't know what we're going to add".

ED, please, be honest with people that loves your product and want to see a clear and transparent seller-costumer policy.

Road map with dates should be part of the EA deal IMO, it is what we use to plan the development of anything in the background anyway? so should be information ED already have ?

[MorgothNL]

This feels like a rushed release.
Core features are missing from EA, that should be part of the release just as much as it having a flight model and damage model (wondering if it even has those at this point).

You say 'EA is not for everyone', but the missing features make it well below what can be considered any type of 'release'.
As others have said, there needs to be some kind or reliable timeline/roadmap that we can see. Listed in the order how ED prioritizes them. 
Only then do we actually know what we are even buying with EA. The way this release is being handled feels weird, worrisome and feels like a kickstarter 'give us your money and you may or may not get a finished product in 1-500 years'. 

Edited April 24, 2024 by MorgothNL

[BIGNEWY]

6 minutes ago, MorgothNL said:

This feels like a rushed release.
Core features are missing from EA, that should be part of the release just as much as it having a flight model and damage model (wondering if it even has those at this point).

You say 'EA is not for everyone', but the missing features make it well below what can be considered any type of 'release'.
As others have said, there needs to be some kind or reliable timeline/roadmap that we can see. Listed in the order how ED prioritizes them. 
Only then do we actually know what we are even buying with EA. The way this release is being handled feels weird, worrisome and feels like a kickstarter 'give us your money and you may or may not get a finished product in 1-500 years'. 

 

As mentioned in the first post "We wanted to be sure we correctly listed features and when they will come out, either at EA release or during EA. We will continue to update the list here and on the store page as we have more info. This is an important module to DCS and needs to bring all the things you might expect from such a famous helicopter. "

[MorgothNL]

Just now, BIGNEWY said:

As mentioned in the first post We wanted to be sure we correctly listed features and when they will come out, either at EA release or during EA. We will continue to update the list here and on the store page as we have more info. This is an important module to DCS and needs to bring all the things you might expect from such a famous helicopter. 

Alright, I hope this list will grow at least a bit.
Don't get me wrong, in case of something like the Chinook, I am all for releasing it with just a full flight and damage model with other stuff coming later. But in that case there needs to be a roadmap so we can manage expectations. 
I understand you will add to the list of things we can expect in EA, but I think most of us are looking for the things that will come AFTER early access, and when we can expect them with a semi reliable time line.

When you buy a Huey or Gazelle, you kind of know what it is and what features/weapons it will have in the end. But in the case of the Chinook 50% of the needed features for this thing to be complete, are outside the module itself. Infantry updates, combined arms update, FARP updates, logistics etc etc. 

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, MorgothNL said:

Alright, I hope this list will grow at least a bit.
Don't get me wrong, in case of something like the Chinook, I am all for releasing it with just a full flight and damage model with other stuff coming later. But in that case there needs to be a roadmap so we can manage expectations. 
I understand you will add to the list of things we can expect in EA, but I think most of us are looking for the things that will come AFTER early access, and when we can expect them with a semi reliable time line.

When you buy a Huey or Gazelle, you kind of know what it is and what features/weapons it will have in the end. But in the case of the Chinook 50% of the needed features for this thing to be complete, are outside the module itself. Infantry updates, combined arms update, FARP updates, logistics etc etc. 

We will share more details, and we are planning to share more about logistics. We may have a dedicated newsletter topic on logistics as it is important for DCS and its future. 

thanks 

[Silver_Dragon]

15 minutes ago, MorgothNL said:

Infantry updates, combined arms update, FARP updates, logistics etc etc. 

That has outside from CH-47F module, if you like updates about modules or funtionality, move to the propper section.

Edited April 24, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[MorgothNL]

10 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

That has outside from CH-47F module, if you like updates about modules, move to the propper section.

Well, thank you for this, cause this is exactly what me and others are saying. Even now, while we are literally in the CH47 topic and I bring up subjects directly related to the CH47, you tell me to take these subjects somewhere else.
This is the CH47 FAQ, the most asked questions are about those things.. and you say 'hey, this is about Ch47 only, don't talk about that other stuff' 

I'm not here to start a discussion and will leave it at this.

Edited April 24, 2024 by MorgothNL

[sorcer3r]

4 hours ago, jakm75 said:

So... The logistics, the entire theme behind this module, almost the entire reason to buy it... won't be available on release?

I'll sit this one out, thanks.

I would never expect logistic features in the next years. 

Apache costumers still waiting for frag damage modeling.

But an unfinished Apache is still better than no Apache. And with the great logistic scripts on the mp servers I fly, the Chinook will be very fun.

 

[Hotdognz]

11 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

As mentioned in the first post "We wanted to be sure we correctly listed features and when they will come out, either at EA release or during EA. We will continue to update the list here and on the store page as we have more info. This is an important module to DCS and needs to bring all the things you might expect from such a famous helicopter. "

The Supercarrier was an important module for DCS and yet we are here 4 years in with no deliverables at all except night wands and spooky crew at Halloween, and plenty of empty promise's that are now being put back even more as its said at needs Vulcan.

As much as I want to fly the Hook after reading the FAQ, I feel this will be another SC with a long wait for the items in that FAQ, so far ED seems to have a lot on its plate with promises made in this years news letters,  Air ground munitions, Dynamic campaign weather system updates, ECM, ATC, in game radio, ground AI updates, and much more, plus we have older modules still in EA with no updates. (not in the news letters)

If the logistics is high priority is it higher than adding the missing promised features to the SC, where does it sit in the que ??

 

[Northstar98]

I'm afraid I'm definitely with a few commentators here, gashpl pretty much nails it.

This new cargo system was first hinted at in this video on the Hind. This video is nearly 3 years old and as far as I can remember there has been no update on it. Now we have a helicopter where this functionality is downright essential and it's still "later on" and we still don't have a list of features we can expect from such a system, other than that it'll be a "novel logistics system" for a select few aircraft and that somewhere along line we might be able to resupply from the CH-47F. I'm sorry but at this stage this really isn't inspiring me with confidence about this module.

15 hours ago, NineLine said:

Why is the feature list so light?
We wanted to be sure we correctly listed features and when they will come out, either at EA release or during EA.

As I've said before, surely this should've been done before offering up the CH-47F for pre-order, not after? I'm really sorry but speaking completely frankly it's somewhat baffling and worrying that ED found that they were ready to open up the pre-order for this module and start taking money for it, while not being ready to tell us the list of features, even just EA features.

Surely internal discussions would've come up with a plan for the module, before offering it for purchase? How can we be in this state at this stage?

It is bad enough having EA modules (which I have purchased in the past) with planned features that don't materialise for several years down the line (indeed, there are still some outlying features planned, some we've not had an update on in nearly half a decade) and when features that despite being perfectly accurate for a module and well within ED's capability to implement are omitted. Now we're slipping even further backwards by offering up a module for pre-order, with the list of things we can expect still undecided (or if decided, unwilling to be shared).

As it stands I have no idea what I should expect by preordering the CH-47F, aside from a 3D artwork, a flight model and an interactive cockpit, which really should be the bare minimum for a full-fidelity module in DCS World (though saying that, even a damage model isn't mentioned so far) and as it stands I'm completely turned off from pre-ordering this module.

[Silver_Dragon]

7 hours ago, Mohamengina said:

Can we get a list of weapons/attachments you plan on adding to the module?

 

For example, can we go full gunship like in this picture?

 

Also will we get AI for each gunning position like in Huey?

 

 

That has a AC-47A, no a CH-47F version. That need a complete rework.

[markturner1960]

I have brought the Chinook, as I have brought pretty much every module and terrain as well as numerous campaigns, as I feel it is important to support ED in this niche and difficult market sector......However, that said, I do feel somewhat that people like me are getting a little taken advantage of with the EA thing and sheer amount of time it takes for a module release to move from EA to feature complete........some, this never happens. 

I think a maximum of 2 years would be reasonable, but when we are in the situation of 4 years and counting for the SC and the Harrier is not even finished 6 years later, to name just two, these timescales are really too long. 

That said, the Apache & Viper have had regular and substantial updates along the way which is great, no complaints there ( Well, maybe one biggy regarding the flight model for the Apache, which badly needs improving....) so credit where its due.

I used to run my own construction business for many years and I always found that clients respected and accepted the (almost inevitable)  delays & issues if you were honest and open with them and gave them RELIABLE dates and information. 

The same should apply here, to avoid ED pissing off the loyal and supportive customers. So I hope the essential logistics features follow shortly along. 

[ColinM9991]

25 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

I have brought the Chinook, as I have brought pretty much every module and terrain as well as numerous campaigns, as I feel it is important to support ED in this niche and difficult market sector......

However, that said, I do feel somewhat that people like me are getting a little taken advantage of with the EA thing and sheer amount of time it takes for a module release to move from EA to feature complete........

No offense mate, but the first paragraph contradicts the second. If you do feel you're being taken advantage of then you could refrain from preordering.

The transparency of this FAQ is great, albeit worrying that we're this far down the road and there's no real understanding on what features are expected to ship in due time. The benefits and requirements are usually something that'll be assessed, by a product team, as part of the inception work and that step either hasn't happened or hasn't yet been communicated to the CMs and the rest of us.

[ghashpl]

47 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

As mentioned in the first post "We wanted to be sure we correctly listed features and when they will come out, either at EA release or during EA. We will continue to update the list here and on the store page as we have more info. This is an important module to DCS and needs to bring all the things you might expect from such a famous helicopter. "

I think it's pointless to talk about the same thing all over again but I just want to point out 3 things

1 - for me not giving the list of features but selling a product is wrong (I understand that for some people just flyable module is enough, they don't need more)
From a customer point of view, we can (not forced of course) buy an unknown product. I understand that you are not sure what you can finish for the release, hence no list of the features. 
From company point of view, I think ED is testing (?) the good will of the people or how "blind" are the customers. In other words - let's see how far we can go with empty promises.

2 - I constantly hear "EA is not for everybody but thank you for the support for those who did because we got money to develop the game".
I'm totally sure Ch-47 won't be next SuperCarrier which is a peak of "sell, and put it on the shelf" attitude - 4 years after we paid for it, and no changes.
So what is the limit of "EA is not for everyone"? We trusted you, helped you financially, in return we got no progress. I'm not saying SC is not playable, but it has long lasting problems and it's missing the parts we paid and has been promised.

Saying "this is not an easy task, EA is a long process". I think 4 years is a long time to bring something to the product.
Meanwhile.. how many modules where released since may 2020, also in EA and still not finished?
Doesn't it look like the company is focused on making half baked product, without any need to finished it? Convince me I'm wrong.

3 - I've created a logistic and csar scripts for my missions and the community. Because of that it's hard to find a person who flies in a plane because they enjoy the logistic part of the missions so much!
I know that Ch-47 will probably (probably, because there is no feature list) bring some new logistic stuff. This heli is all about it.
But saying "oh, the community will take care of logistic" is bad from 2 sides:
- we are not responsible to create tools for the missions (we should use them),
- and if we should/could, please gives us the tools and possibility to do so.
API is missing functions (adjusting the weight of internal cargo for example).
here are not civilian models we can use for SAR/CSAR.
Embarking/disembarking troops is meh.
We don't know which unit use F10 menu (API returns only group id).
Cargoes that heli can transport do not affect missions - we cannot transport vehicles or even artillery pieces; I know we can trigger other units, but we did not brought those units.
This is just from the top of my head.

I know people who read the forums have nothing to do with the marketing or how the bussines is run.
I would like to just leave a statement for those who have authority, that what is happening (since many many years) is wrong, and it shows that the company is taking but not giving. I think we would like to see a steady pace of finishing the products before adding new one.

The whole situation in DCS is looking like (just a small joke to vent out my frustration):
- Let's build the City of Rome!
After building the Coliseum:
- Oh, we underestimate the task, the City of Rome is big and it will take more time. LET'S MAKE NEW YORK INSTEAD, preorder with 30% off.

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, StandingCow said:

I think ED needs to have a reasonable schedule of when something should go from EA to full release (understanding that things slip and take longer than ED initially intends).  Without derailing the thread I'll just say I am refraining from buying any more EA modules due to how current EA modules are handled, Chinook included.

Setting release dates or deadlines is impossible, especially in a complex development scheme like this simulator. In the past, ED set deadlines, and when he didn't meet them, the anger, attacks, drama, etc. began... from that moment on, Ed said that he didn't set deadlines. Some should learn what happened earlier about "promises."

Edited April 24, 2024 by Silver_Dragon