waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Guille H. Mono]

7 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Btw.

 

Hi, Yoyo. Are these recent posts from Discord? Can you please add some info like plataform/date/commentator? 

Thank you for keeping us updated.

[TLTeo]

Yes, this is a recent post from Notso, RB's Strike Eagle SME. Because clearly going public worked so well for everyone involved the first time around. I'm not even taking anyone's side, I just can't fathom how both parties involved are handing this so badly.

[Swiso]

5 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Btw.

 

I guess this come from RB discord...

I woukd expect at mininum that ED would confirm or deny if that statement is correct or not.

 

If that's the case then, basically that mean ED lied when after the Hawk fiasco they said something similar would not happen...

And that I guess would expose ED to a possible lawsuit....

[YoYo]

1 minute ago, Swiso said:

If that's the case then, basically that mean ED lied when after the Hawk fiasco they said something similar would not happen...

It's not even about that, even if they had the source code, which can perhaps be obtained by talented IT specialists (maybe?), you simply need to have the processing capacity and free employees who will then do it, and ED probably does not have any free forces at this moment. It would take many months. So there is no way for the ED to take care of anything from 3rd parties, I guess.

[Swiso]

8 minutes ago, YoYo said:

It's not even about that, even if they had the source code, which can perhaps be obtained by talented IT specialists (maybe?), you simply need to have the processing capacity and free employees who will then do it, and ED probably does not have any free forces at this moment. It would take many months. So there is no way for the ED to take care of anything from 3rd parties, I guess.

Hey, it's them that promised something like the Hawk fiasco would (could) not happen again.

It's either you know what you're "promising" or not...

As simple as that.

[BigBorner]

4 minutes ago, Swiso said:

Hey, it's them that promised something like the Hawk fiasco would (could) not happen again.

If the recently published contract ED uses for 3rd Partys is legit, they did put safeguards in place. If RB did not deliver / update the Source Code to the Escrow Service, thats a breach of contract. 

[dwm]

Well, it's a difficult situation, and we (the community) all wish it's resolved.

Talking about transparency. Lot of people here say, there should be more transparency ...
- Stating the situation on ED's shop
- The takeover of the RB modules by ED, is it possible, will it eventually happen
- refunding policies ...
- ... and the state of the negotiations.

You all read the statements. I agree, i personally would wish to know all of these. But i'm also thinking about the signal effects that would have ... basically it would would signal to most of the people i'm reading here simply "worst case happened, lets start the refunding race".

That would not help in any way. So, as long as we hear nothing, at least we can hope for a positive outcome. And frankly, I don't necessarily want a refunding, I want working modules, that's why i obtained them

About the whole "source code" thing ... well, "normally" something like that would be solved by a escrow at a trusted party, which would release the code to ED at certain conditions.
Are the conditions met? Is the escrow updated at latest state, or was that neglected in the "hurry up" of a release? Would not having the code in escrow rectify stop of payment?

Nobody here would expect to get informed about that details, right?

So my summary - while i'm really not, repeat NOT happy with the situation, i can to some extent understand the information policy. 

Nevertheless to both RB and ED ... its already 2 months, and patience somehow is running out. The situation is damaging both of you, more than you even might realize - the community understood suddenly, that they give a lot of money for something virtual, which can "evaporate" on a very short notice, and thats really a basic problem.

So, whatever you talk - hurry up

 

[Snappy]

14 minutes ago, BigBorner said:

If the recently published contract ED uses for 3rd Partys is legit, they did put safeguards in place. If RB did not deliver / update the Source Code to the Escrow Service, thats a breach of contract. 

Don't jump to conclusions. Strike Eagle was in developement for a looong while, that specific contract might predate the post-VEAO changes.

[Romandv]

16 минут назад, dwm сказал:

 

Nobody here would expect to get informed about that details, right?

 

My opinion is that it shouldn't be a concern for users at all. Two legal entities solve the problem between themselves, but for some reason it becomes our problem, although we are conscientious payers. What solutions do we see?

1) Getting RB to support the module - not
2) Maintain the module at hotfix level ourselves - not
3) Refund - not
4) Replace non-working modules with other working ones - not

Maybe two months is considered nothing to some, but I'm used to valuing other people's time and I don't see it that way. The only issue is time and now we are being told to wait for something instead of a solution for some reason - this is important. Which of these two companies is at fault and what they are going to do is a conversation not about our money.

Edited June 4, 2024 by Romandv

[BigBorner]

11 minutes ago, Snappy said:

that specific contract might predate the post-VEAO changes.

Thats entirely possible, yes. 

[Silver_Dragon]

11 hours ago, Blackeye said:

So? Opering systems provide SDKs as well and even frameworks. That's pretty much required if you want third parties to properly develop stuff for your platform and not just build some hacks to create limited "mods".

 

DCS World has no a "Opering system", has a private businnes. You need create a company, sign a contract with ED to get the 3rd Party status, and get the SDK tools.... Mod teams has none access to them.

[stonewall197922]

This  all starting to irritate. Dont know how about you, but i  play DCS to relax after work. And not being nervous about this whole situation. RB is ED contractual developer, so they have responsibilities before customers. I have enough of problems at work to worry. Gosh this is the only developer and game with such problems. The only thing is stopping me from leaving this game is invested money.

[Atazar SPN]

hace 20 minutos, stonewall197922 dijo:

RB is ED contractual developer, so they have responsibilities before customers.

A worker's responsibilities end when he or she stops receiving a salary. If my boss doesn't pay me, I don't go to work.

[draconus]

1 minute ago, Atazar SPN said:

A worker's responsibilities end when he or she stops receiving a salary. If my boss doesn't pay me, I don't go to work.

I bought from ED. I don't care what subcontractors they pay or not to make the module work.

[Romandv]

6 минут назад, Atazar SPN сказал:

A worker's responsibilities end when he or she stops receiving a salary. If my boss doesn't pay me, I don't go to work.

I see this example a lot in regards to RAZBAM. The only thing is that RAZBAM is an intermediary between ED and DCS clients, so the example is incorrect. 
Why do users care so much about a company that has nothing to do with them? I don't care if RB gets paid or not - it's just none of my business. The whole ‘for all the good vs all the bad’ thing doesn't work where your money is taken. If RB gets his money but doesn't continue development, would that be okay with you?

Edited June 4, 2024 by Romandv

[stonewall197922]

5 минут назад, Atazar SPN сказал:

A worker's responsibilities end when he or she stops receiving a salary. If my boss doesn't pay me, I don't go to work.

No, if you have concluded labor agreement you cant not to go to work. You can go to office and do nothing. Or you can break the agreement. 

[Atazar SPN]

hace 3 minutos, Romandv dijo:

Why do users care so much about a company that has nothing to do with them?

Why shouldn't I defend RAZBAM? I am a worker like them and if my boss doesn't pay me, I won't work.

hace 4 minutos, stonewall197922 dijo:

No, if you have concluded labor agreement you cant not to go to work. You can go to office and do nothing. Or you can break the agreement. 

You cannot force anyone to work without paying them a salary. If there is a breach of any contractual point, you must go to conciliation before suspending payment to your workers.

[stonewall197922]

9 минут назад, Atazar SPN сказал:

Why shouldn't I defend RAZBAM? I am a worker like them and if my boss doesn't pay me, I won't work.

You cannot force anyone to work without paying them a salary. If there is a breach of any contractual point, you must go to conciliation before suspending payment to your workers.

I said not FORCE to work, but you cant just not to COME to work office if you concluded labor agreement. Thats different things. I dont said you should work for free.

Edited June 4, 2024 by stonewall197922

[LordOrion]

1 hour ago, Swiso said:

I guess this come from RB discord...

I woukd expect at mininum that ED would confirm or deny if that statement is correct or not.

 

If that's the case then, basically that mean ED lied when after the Hawk fiasco they said something similar would not happen...

And that I guess would expose ED to a possible lawsuit....

You're simplifying things too much:

Was Razbam already a 3rd pary developer at Hawk fiasco time?

Does the current ED-Razbam 3rd party development agreement includes Razmbam to give Ed full access to module sources?

 

Edited June 4, 2024 by LordOrion

[Silver_Dragon]

2 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

You're simplifying things too much:

Was Razbam already a 3rd pary developer at Hawk fiasco time?

Does the current ED-Razbam 3rd party development agreement includes Razmbam to give Ed full access to module sources?

 

 

RAZBAM has one of first 3rd parties on the VEAO times.

[Swiso]

1 minute ago, LordOrion said:

You're simplifying things too much:

Was Razbam already a 3rd pary developer at Hawk fiasco time?

Does the current ED-Razbam 3rd party development agreement includes Razmbam to give Ed full access to module sources?

 

 

I would expect that after the Hawk fiasco every 3rd party developer had to agree to new conditions that would guarantee what ED said after that event

If that's not the case, then ED promised something that actually was not true.

As simple as that.

[Atazar SPN]

hace 21 minutos, Swiso dijo:

I would expect that after the Hawk fiasco every 3rd party developer had to agree to new conditions that would guarantee what ED said after that event

You're right, but...

Transfer my rights to a labor partner and that the partner can decide at any time to stop paying and appropriate my work?

Who would sign something like that?

[stonewall197922]

15 минут назад, Swiso сказал:

I would expect that after the Hawk fiasco every 3rd party developer had to agree to new conditions that would guarantee what ED said after that event

If that's not the case, then ED promised something that actually was not true.

As simple as that.

I can understand developer gives sources of compleated product. But the question: Who paid for development?ED or RB? If ED supported by its fincances the whole development process- so yes and if thats mentioned in agreement. So rb must provide ed with sources. If rb supported development own funds, so why they must give sources to someone?

[Atazar SPN]

Suspending payment to a partner when you are in the middle of developing a joint project is suicide. The appropriate thing would have been to go to a conciliation act. Stopping paying is the last thing.

[Swiso]

15 minutes ago, Atazar SPN said:

You're right, but...

Transfer my rights to a labor partner and that the partner can decide at any time to stop paying and appropriate my work?

Who would sign something like that?

You see, the point is : Why ED should suddenly stop paying you for no reason, meanwhile they keep selling your products....and they sell good apparently.

Who in his sane mind would do that?

Do you realise that acting this way undermine your whole business?

Why shoot in your foot like this ?

There must be a reason.....

Edited June 4, 2024 by Swiso