waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Mrgone]

1 minute ago, NineLine said:

Lots of people are tense on both sides, don't want to poke anyone with a stick as it were. Hope you understand.

I understand . . . and I am sorry.  Seems all the speculation is more damaging to both parties then a bawdy limeric.

[Mrgone]

Hey, if anyone would like to diverge from a painful topic such as the fate of the F-15E. . . ask about my Avitar.  It is real and the only known one in existance!

My days on this planet are somewhat numbered and I have a tale to tell . . .

[maxTRX]

24 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Need an auto-reply at this point  I think its time to make that "what we know so far" post.

 

I was hoping that sooner or later some form of openAI would take over, might even hash out some ideas for solutions or cause a hybrid war 

[av8orDave]

I for one have finally reached the point of agitation with good ol' Razbam.

Looking back, I've purchased three of their modules (Harrier, Mirage 2000, F-15E) and have been very pleased with the quality of modeling and their support of the modules. Overall, I've considered them to be a top-tier developer for DCS.

Then all of a sudden they are no longer supporting their modules. I learn there are two sides to the story. I've been around the block in the business world a bit, and can imagine the contractual and business issues that have spun this situation up, but with the breaking of the radar, I guess I'm seeing things differently today.

Here are the two stories that have been thrown out there:

1) Razbam says that for some unknown reason, ED wakes up one day and decides to no longer pay one of their most productive and top tier developers. Razbam asserts that it is a total mystery to them why this happened, but basically that ED is awful.

2) ED asserts something to the effect of "Razbam breached contractual obligations regarding legally protected IP rights" and that they are seeking a commercial outcome rather than legal.

Which of these stories seems more realistic and likely, honestly? The "we don't know why but they stopped paying and we've done nothing wrong" story or the idea that ED has a good reason to withhold payment story?

Overall it irks me to no end and I think Razbam should be very concerned about the damage to their reputation. I won't be buying any more of their products for any simulator until the situation is fully resolved and DCS development is back on track.

[PhantomHans]

"A commercial outcome rather than legal"...

 

Did they really say that and what does that even mean?

 

ED and Razbam need to get their act together on this.  Screw you both.  I don't care if you need to settle it by combat, just settle this.

[Katalan]

Embedding a timebomb inside your own product makes you, at least, appears too much guilty. All credibility from Scambam is lose.

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, but this ugly trick goes against all the customers if it's true. Not only DCS customers, any Scambam user from the professional side should be worried about the software of that company.

Seriously tinking to ask a refund for the F-15. I was expecting it from them since Jane's F15 in the 90s. But this is not acceptable.

Im so sad, because I love the Harrier and the Eagle.

Edited June 14, 2024 by Katalan

[Hammer1-1]

really hope Razbam didnt sabotage this...never again will I buy anything from him.

[Fisu_MAD]

Without a patch, some of the F-15E stops working, this sounds like sabotage. Anyway, ED tries to locate the problem and fix it. This reminds me of the Harrier coming out of the EA with a spreadSheet full of unresolved bugs. And ED came out again to save the module. In short, it is clear who wants and who does not want to do things well. A shame about the Harrier and the M2K.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Guys, I really severely doubt RB has put a timebomb into the F-15E. If they did, why can you still fly it to begin with? Why wouldn't they have gone the Fade route that BIS used to do to counter piracy of their games? Basically, if they're going to sabotage something, why make it so minor and also so easily countered by setting back your system clock? Why would they do this when their legal stance has already been weakened by their inability to stay professional during a much needed moment to do so?

There's a lot to criticize Razbam for, but let's criticize them for what is reasonable and, ideally, demonstrable.

Edited June 14, 2024 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[dSAF Dancer]

For everyone screaming sabotage: a similar or maybe even identical thing happened already at the beginning of the year and back then it definitely was a bug that only apeared on the stable version as something expired at newyears, so my guess would be its not deliberate but just the same bug again.

 

Whats the saying again:

Never assume malice when stupidity can suffice, which holds true especially with coding bugs.

[Hammer1-1]

4 minutes ago, dSAF Dancer said:

For everyone screaming sabotage: a similar or maybe even identical thing happened already at the beginning of the year and back then it definitely was a bug that only apeared on the stable version as something expired at newyears, so my guess would be its not deliberate but just the same bug again.

 

Whats the saying again:

Never assume malice when stupidity can suffice, which holds true especially with coding bugs.

if its true, its true. if its not, its not. if it IS true....

[336_TheAngryGamer]

12 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

really hope Razbam didnt sabotage this...never again will I buy anything from him.

Cries of sabotage, reminds me of the old witch trials when people let their fears runs wild when cooler heads would have been more beneficial. Has anyone fearing sabotage actually taken the time to logically think this out? 

[Hammer1-1]

1 minute ago, 336_TheAngryGamer said:

Cries of sabotage, reminds me of the old witch trials when people let their fears runs wild when cooler heads would have been more beneficial. Has anyone fearing sabotage actually taken the time to logically think this out? 

I refer you to my above post.

[Rainmaker]

3 minutes ago, 336_TheAngryGamer said:

Cries of sabotage, reminds me of the old witch trials when people let their fears runs wild when cooler heads would have been more beneficial. Has anyone fearing sabotage actually taken the time to logically think this out? 

Not if it doesn’t fall in line with their previous agendas they don’t. You are giving the few too much credit of rational thought. 

[Lord_Pyro]

6 hours ago, Horns said:

Anyone checked if the MiG-19 radar works as of the 14th?

Still sweeping left and right

[Mizzy]

48 minutes ago, davidrbarnette said:

I for one have finally reached the point of agitation with good ol' Razbam.

Looking back, I've purchased three of their modules (Harrier, Mirage 2000, F-15E) and have been very pleased with the quality of modeling and their support of the modules. Overall, I've considered them to be a top-tier developer for DCS.

Then all of a sudden they are no longer supporting their modules. I learn there are two sides to the story. I've been around the block in the business world a bit, and can imagine the contractual and business issues that have spun this situation up, but with the breaking of the radar, I guess I'm seeing things differently today.

Here are the two stories that have been thrown out there:

1) Razbam says that for some unknown reason, ED wakes up one day and decides to no longer pay one of their most productive and top tier developers. Razbam asserts that it is a total mystery to them why this happened, but basically that ED is awful.

2) ED asserts something to the effect of "Razbam breached contractual obligations regarding legally protected IP rights" and that they are seeking a commercial outcome rather than legal.

Which of these stories seems more realistic and likely, honestly? The "we don't know why but they stopped paying and we've done nothing wrong" story or the idea that ED has a good reason to withhold payment story?

Overall it irks me to no end and I think Razbam should be very concerned about the damage to their reputation. I won't be buying any more of their products for any simulator until the situation is fully resolved and DCS development is back on track.

I could not have said it better !

[PhantomHans]

For all I care, just close the Razbam forum section.

The two companies aren't talking and there's nothing left to really talk about, is there?

Mirage has a broken G limiter, F-15E has no radar, I'm sure AV8 and MiG19 will be breaking soon enough. 

 

Since ED will not under any circumstances be refunding us for these products, and offering store credit only for F-15E, why not just give everybody their F-15E store credit,  remove the module from the game, stop all sales of all Razbam products, and officially make the AV8, M2000, and MiG19 unsupported abandonware to be removed when broken later?

[Romandv]

3 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

For all I care, just close the Razbam forum section.

The two companies aren't talking and there's nothing left to really talk about, is there?

Mirage has a broken G limiter, F-15E has no radar, I'm sure AV8 and MiG19 will be breaking soon enough. 

 

Since ED will not under any circumstances be refunding us for these products, and offering store credit only for F-15E, why not just give everybody their F-15E store credit,  remove the module from the game, stop all sales of all Razbam products, and officially make the AV8, M2000, and MiG19 unsupported abandonware to be removed when broken later?

Because ED wants to keep these modules running. But that doesn't mean the F15E will get development, it will just work.

Edited June 14, 2024 by Romandv

[PhantomHans]

2 minutes ago, Romandv said:

Because ED wants to keep these modules running. But that doesn't mean the F15E will get development, it will just work.

 

Kinda hard without the source code though right?

I'm fine with them being removed and abandoned at this point tbh.  Let them go the way of the Hawk.

[Lord_Pyro]

The whole legal battle just started, it's way too early to disband everything razbamrelated. (And illegal)

 

Has been stated here over and over. And the M2k has been fixed for the time beeing, maybe the F15E will be fixed too. 

 

[Romandv]

11 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

Kinda hard without the source code though right?

I'm fine with them being removed and abandoned at this point tbh.  Let them go the way of the Hawk.

I don't know, I don't do development. I assume they're talking about what they can.

[Rudel_chw]

19 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

For all I care, just close the Razbam forum section.

Of course, all that matters is what you care about, what other users might want is totally irrelevant  

 

I own every dcs module, and have not requested any refund … what I would like to see is ED and RB reaching an agreement that lets the RB modules keep their support and development.
 

While I wait for this to happen, I have stopped purchasing anymore modules since March, with the notable exception of the Kola map .. but I did skip on the Chinook, Afghanistan, and the Kiowa, and intend to skip on FC2024 and any other Modules that may appear before this ED-RB dispute is solved. I will keep flying the modules that I already own, but I will do my best to avoid spending anymore money on DCS.

 

Edited June 14, 2024 by Rudel_chw

[Adder_69]

Wait until someone files for reorg under ch11, credits for RAZBAN will be frozen in place, meaning if you don't apply for credit be issued or you have applied but not received the credit it falls into the so sad too bad category.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

52 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

if its true, its true. if its not, its not. if it IS true....

If it IS true, it'd be side-splittingly hilarious and it'd immediately force ED's hand to go the legal route. RB'd be chum for the sharks in that case, they don't want that. It'd be like you trying to win a 1v1 pick up game of hoops.

Against Michael Jordan in his prime.

And that's just the battle with ED, this would effectively ruin Zambrano's professional reputation along with everyone associated with him in this regard. The Razbam name wouldn't just be muck, it'd be radioactive.

So, effectively, they'd lose everything they have and then have no future in development.

They're not going to do that. Yes, they've made plenty of missteps, but self preservation is always something to consider.

Edited June 14, 2024 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[Flapjacks]

If Razbam wanted to "Sabotage" their module, I'd think they would do it a little more competently, rather than something that was solved within literal minutes of it's discovery and with a simple date rollback. If they truly wanted to break the module, they would've done it. It's not sabotage.