waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[nessuno0505]

People have stopped writing here, but they don't forget and I hope this shows in the outcomes of the store.

P.S. I don't care what the solution will be, indeed personally I hope that Razbam changes shores, but the times are getting longer and this is not good.

[alpha9]

I refunded my F15E but I want it back, Can anyone give us a clear statement if the model will be supported any furthur?

[Beirut]

3 hours ago, alpha9 said:

I refunded my F15E but I want it back, Can anyone give us a clear statement if the model will be supported any furthur?

 

They'll let us know in two-weeks. 

[Smashy]

4 hours ago, alpha9 said:

I refunded my F15E but I want it back, Can anyone give us a clear statement if the model will be supported any furthur?

Assuming ED will honor refunds if things with Razbam go to sh!t, you shouldn't have requested a refund.  You could have been flying it all this time while waiting for ED and Raz to work things out.  That's what I'm doing.  And crossing my fingers.

[Oban]

34 minutes ago, Smashy said:

Assuming ED will honor refunds if things with Razbam go to sh!t, you shouldn't have requested a refund.  You could have been flying it all this time while waiting for ED and Raz to work things out.  That's what I'm doing.  And crossing my fingers.

Too many spat their dummies out and stomped their feet.

There's still too many claims about lack of communication between ED and RB, with the usual RB DEV constantly releasing snippets and it's definately not helping,  dure all he wants is to be paid, fully understandable, however, that's an internal RB/3rd party situation that both those parties need to fix.

I was pretty optimistic that common sense would prevail, and it hasn't, so it appears there's way much more going on that us mere mortals are privy to, and it's not as cordial as what both parties initially stated.

The damage to the confidence of the consumer  by the actions/inactions of both parties, that is ED/RB is irretrievable in my view. The cynic in me can see only one emerging from this fiasco, the other will fade off into arcadish type genre's.

I love my F15E, as well as the Harrier, and I will continue to fly them to the point where there's catastophic failures due to updates.

The year started off well for the F15E, with lots of good things to look forwards to, now it's a case of despair and frustration for many..

Shame on both of you, Eagle Dynamics and Razbam.

[alpha9]

56 minutes ago, Smashy said:

Assuming ED will honor refunds if things with Razbam go to sh!t, you shouldn't have requested a refund.  You could have been flying it all this time while waiting for ED and Raz to work things out.  That's what I'm doing.  And crossing my fingers.

I know what you mean but still as much as I like it, its still far from complete thats why I refunded

[Mainstay]

Can the whole RAZBAM section be closed yet?

Refund Mirage, Harrier and MiG19 in ED credits to me so i can buy some other stuff from the store and be done with it.

Soap has been going on long enough now.

[Oban]

22 minutes ago, Mainstay said:

Can the whole RAZBAM section be closed yet?

Refund Mirage, Harrier and MiG19 in ED credits to me so i can buy some other stuff from the store and be done with it.

Soap has been going on long enough now.

There's nothing wrong with all those other modules, it's like buying a suit, wearing it for 3 years and then asking for a refund because the style isn't trendy anymore.

Or like buying a car, driving it around for years, getting your moneys worth, then because production stopped, you think you should get your money back !!

[YoYo]

1 hour ago, Mainstay said:

Can the whole RAZBAM section be closed yet?

Refund Mirage, Harrier and MiG19 in ED credits to me so i can buy some other stuff from the store and be done with it.

Soap has been going on long enough now.

VERY Bad idea. I have all and dont want to lose these modules. They are still great and are sometimes in better condition than some modules.

Btw. I heard that Razbam signed some kind of contract with a new publisher MicroProse, maybe about addons for MSFS2024?

[Oban]

48 minutes ago, YoYo said:

VERY Bad idea. I have all and dont want to lose these modules. They are still great and are sometimes in better condition than some modules.

Btw. I heard that Razbam signed some kind of contract with a new publisher MicroProse, maybe about addons for MSFS2024?

Micropose and Microsoft are 2 different entities.

I don't recall Micropose ever making anything for MSFS, they did Falcon4.

To me it looks like neither ED or RB are willing to budge an inch, and we're relying on at least one part telling the truth in this mess.

[Gizmo03]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb YoYo:

I heard that Razbam signed some kind of contract with a new publisher MicroProse, maybe about addons for MSFS2024?

MSFS is MicroSOFT not MicroPROSE.
Do you have a source for that? And please not this YT Video where someone thinks to see the MicroProse Logo at the stand of Razbam in Japan.....

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Oban:

Micropose and Microsoft are 2 different entities.

I don't recall Micropose ever making anything for MSFS, they did Falcon4.

To me it looks like neither ED or RB are willing to budge an inch, and we're relying on at least one part telling the truth in this mess.

Microprose made the Strike Eagle Series in the 90s.
But i think this is not really related to DCS at all....

Edited October 2, 2024 by Gizmo03

[Schmidtfire]

23 minutes ago, YoYo said:

They are still great and are sometimes in better condition than some modules.

Highly debatable. Both Harrier and MiG-19P had overhauls planned. F-15E is in good shape but far from completion.

I can only speak for myself, but I have zero interest in investing time in Razbam modules until the situation is resolved.
This situation has really exposed the flaws of having 3rd party DLC's in DCS World. Sooner or later other parties will leave (for whatever reason)
and there is a big chance to be a bag holder of modules that will not be finished or kept on minimal life support.

But most of all, I just want this particular dispute to be over. Or that one or two of "the grownups" start telling us what the plan is and what the general timeline for
resolving the situation looks like.
 

[YoYo]

30 minutes ago, Oban said:

Micropose and Microsoft are 2 different entities.

Where is it written that it's the same company? Where did you get that idea?  You are misinformed.

Quote

MSFS is MicroSOFT not MicroPROSE.

The same ... 

Edited October 2, 2024 by YoYo

[TheFreshPrince]

6 months^TM

[Oban]

1 hour ago, YoYo said:

VERY Bad idea. I have all and dont want to lose these modules. They are still great and are sometimes in better condition than some modules.

Btw. I heard that Razbam signed some kind of contract with a new publisher MicroProse, maybe about addons for MSFS2024?

Razbam already had a forage into the Microsoft FS series, they bailed on those too

They did have some very good aircraft, their GR7/GR9's and A6/A7's were good, they could have easily brought those into DCS world, they already had the models, they chose not to for some reason. This is the issue with RB, their track record hasn't been the best.

They should be focusing on their current customers and doing everything they can to resolve this situation, their JV's with other company's is their business, I'm not holding my breath for another simulation on par with DCS to magically appear within the next 5 years at least.

 

[YoYo]

20 minutes ago, Oban said:

Razbam already had a forage into the Microsoft FS series, they bailed on those too

They did have some very good aircraft, their GR7/GR9's and A6/A7's were good, they could have easily brought those into DCS world, they already had the models, they chose not to for some reason. This is the issue with RB, their track record hasn't been the best.

They should be focusing on their current customers and doing everything they can to resolve this situation, their JV's with other company's is their business, I'm not holding my breath for another simulation on par with DCS to magically appear within the next 5 years at least.

 

It's not quite as you write. Razbam has been associated with the FS series with add-ons for many years. They had successes, and the peak of quality was the M2000, F-15E and indeed Harriers, made with Metal2Mesh. It had its fans and had this market in its palms when it came to combat aircraft for FS. The ones you mentioned were much older models (A-6, A-7), with so-so quality (like Corsair etc.) but they weren't bad add-ons either. Nobody threw anyone there, but they had an idea for combat planes in DCS, that's why they came here because they were looking for a more ambitious project. If you also think that MicroProse does nothing for MSFS, here is the link with the announcement. There is nothing to stop Razbam from returning to the MSFS market, where models are created 30% faster due to fewer systems and a different SDK. But that's a completely different story.

As for the situation between ED and Razbam, there are already so many sides here that there is absolutely no point in treading in one place and constantly talking about the same thing. We have two sides and each has their own reason. We are suffering and unfortunately we are the victims of this situation, but there is no point in touching it again and again. Waste of time. In any case, it is not just black and white and as simple as some people think here.

 

Edited October 2, 2024 by YoYo

[Mainstay]

4 hours ago, Oban said:

There's nothing wrong with all those other modules, it's like buying a suit, wearing it for 3 years and then asking for a refund because the style isn't trendy anymore.

Or like buying a car, driving it around for years, getting your moneys worth, then because production stopped, you think you should get your money back !!

Dude I don’t even want full DCS coins. Just like 20% per module or something. Not my problem the system they implemented seem to implode again (hawk anyone?)…

If Nick is really serious about us customers being so loyal then show us he’s so loyal to us. 
 

I for one are starting to lose faith in DCS more and more lately. Performance, never ending products that are unfinished, 3D party dev drama and shady communication what we can expect in the future to keep trusting in what’s coming. 

[Oban]

18 minutes ago, Mainstay said:

Dude I don’t even want full DCS coins. Just like 20% per module or something. Not my problem the system they implemented seem to implode again (hawk anyone?)…

If Nick is really serious about us customers being so loyal then show us he’s so loyal to us. 
 

I for one are starting to lose faith in DCS more and more lately. Performance, never ending products that are unfinished, 3D party dev drama and shady communication what we can expect in the future to keep trusting in what’s coming. 

The self entitlement here is strong.

[Mizzy]

Sorry, wine dregs from being retired. I need to go back to work. 

Mizzy

Edited October 3, 2024 by Mizzy

[Mainstay]

9 hours ago, Oban said:

The self entitlement here is strong.

Nothing to do with self entitlement. I own almost every product ED brought to the market. So as a serious buyer/ investor i can perfectly say what’s on my mind. You can disagree with me but my opinion is pointed and aimed towards EAGLE DYNAMICS and mister Grey.

[draconus]

16 hours ago, Mainstay said:

Can the whole RAZBAM section be closed yet?

Refund Mirage, Harrier and MiG19 in ED credits to me so i can buy some other stuff from the store and be done with it.

No, the forum is for both devs and members to share info, report bugs and help each other. Nothing will be closed.

Refunds are only available for EA F-15E module. No other module will be refunded since they work fine and are not EA modules.

[Oban]

6 hours ago, Mainstay said:

Nothing to do with self entitlement. I own almost every product ED brought to the market. So as a serious buyer/ investor i can perfectly say what’s on my mind. You can disagree with me but my opinion is pointed and aimed towards EAGLE DYNAMICS and mister Grey.

That's not an opinion, it's a whine of serious self entitlement, Oh I bought a pair of trainers 4 years ago, wore them every day, they no longer make that model, I think I will ask the store for a refund....should I feel entitled to a refund? 

If you fail to see how absurd your comments are then crack on.

[Nightdare]

7 hours ago, Mainstay said:

Nothing to do with self entitlement. I own almost every product ED brought to the market. So as a serious buyer/ investor i can perfectly say what’s on my mind. You can disagree with me but my opinion is pointed and aimed towards EAGLE DYNAMICS and mister Grey.

 

The only thing ED 'owes' you, is what you yourself agreed with in the ToS/EULA, perhaps go back and read it and then review your 'dictate' again

 

You can certainly state what's on your mind, but the fact you feel entitled to whatever it is you want ED to do, is a grossly wrong assumption on your part and will be ignored as such

You are a customer, not a buyer, not an investor, all you did was trade your money for a product, that business deal was concluded each and every time you agreed to the purchase, yet you somehow actually see yourself as someone who has a stake in this company?

 

 

[Mainstay]

2 hours ago, Oban said:

That's not an opinion, it's a whine of serious self entitlement, Oh I bought a pair of trainers 4 years ago, wore them every day, they no longer make that model, I think I will ask the store for a refund....should I feel entitled to a refund? 

If you fail to see how absurd your comments are then crack on.

I will "crack"on!!! Happy flying and dont forget your oxy mask

1 hour ago, Nightdare said:

 

The only thing ED 'owes' you, is what you yourself agreed with in the ToS/EULA, perhaps go back and read it and then review your 'dictate' again

 

You can certainly state what's on your mind, but the fact you feel entitled to whatever it is you want ED to do, is a grossly wrong assumption on your part and will be ignored as such

You are a customer, not a buyer, not an investor, all you did was trade your money for a product, that business deal was concluded each and every time you agreed to the purchase, yet you somehow actually see yourself as someone who has a stake in this company?

 

 

O yes! you are right. Lets see what happens with DCS public market when we all stop buying modules..... you realize that the money we spend is part of the future of the company and the development of future products right? So in a way we are a stake. But hey  our views may differ

[Mizzy]

6 minutes ago, Mainstay said:

I will "crack"on!!! Happy flying and dont forget your oxy mask

O yes! you are right. Lets see what happens with DCS public market when we all stop buying modules.....  But hey  our views may differ

That's the only way forward but I would drop the 'we' all stop buying modules bit, the RB/ED thing is only affecting a very small number in the community and they tend to be chewy buggers anyway, it's best to speak for yourself because you don't speak for anyone else.

I agree though that you have invested a significant stake in DCS, all the more reason to see this RB/ED thing in perspective as it only affects one module and that module is working but not to the level that was promised or advertised as some other chap pointed out.  I know some have spit their dummy out but it's frustration and this community gets easily frustrated. Look at all the response's when HeatBlur delayed the launch of the F-4 by one day, ED were accused of scamming the customer, ripping them off, cry's of 'I paid for this and that. You would think the world came to an end with some people. It was comedy gold though reading some of the comments, it was like DCS was the centre of their universe, maybe it is.

On a different tangent, not off topic, but if the rumour mill is to be believed about RB moving platform (hopefully to MSFS) the modules they have been showing off in Japan will be useless as a combat model, as we all know MSFS has no provision to bring their aircraft to DCS standards. So I was wondering, how many DCS people will buy RBs modules in that setting. Think about it, no more arguing about accuracy of this weapon or the F15E has no proper radar that spots little dotty targets or the FM is crap LOL. A bit like the Heatblur version of the F14 or the F104 or the Mig21. Life will be so much more easy for RB in MSFS, or will it 

Anyway, you have loads of things to do in DCS, enjoy yourself, I am contemplating using multiplayer, why not come and shoot the <profanity> out of me because I don't know how to fire a missile, a virtual punchbag if you will. Take care.

Mizzy