waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[C3PO]

Looks like this won't get resolved - it's taken too much time.

[krazyj]

 

8 hours ago, C3PO said:

Looks like this won't get resolved - it's taken too much time.

It really hasnt, legislative issues can take a very long time to resolve and especially if its due to go to court as the court slot has to be allocated. Its not like you just get a slot tomorrow

[TheFreshPrince]

And after such a prolonged legal fight, everything is gonna be happiness and sunshine?

[Fisu_MAD]

En 6/11/2024 a las 17:32, Mainstay dijo:

¿Alguien está emocionado por el próximo video "DCS 2025 y más allá de RAZBAM"?

 

I just hope that it stays there, in the afterlife, and doesn't come back here.

[Rogue Trooper]

I am very thankful that Razbam never made a helicopter!

 

 

 

[Ignition]

13 hours ago, Horns said:

The M2K was basic compared to the other aircraft in DCS at the time. An outdated module can't be sold, don't pretend Razbam's doing any charity here.

Well, at the time the only aircrafts in DCS were the Ka-50 and the A-10C which both had already years of development.

Maybe the viggen and mig-21 also I don't remember.

We all know Razbam is not doing charity, if they were then they would still be working for free on their modules since ED stopped paying them more than a year ago.

I don't understand what you mean but outdated modules can be sold, Combined Arms from ED for example. It never got updated and also it never worked fine plus they increased the price since the caucasus map was improved.

I still don't understand why are you complaining for an aircraft that got improved over time, I can understand you if it still were basic as you call it. Many aircraft also got improved, for example the F-16C which was the worst release in DCS and now is much better simulated than the F-18C, it still has a TGP which is a joke but also the F-18 and I hope it gets improved in the sniper release after the well designed video of F-15E TGP.

Edited November 8, 2024 by Ignition

[krazyj]

2 hours ago, TheFreshPrince said:

And after such a prolonged legal fight, everything is gonna be happiness and sunshine?

well it really depends on the outcome but Id imagine that even if a settlement is reached then both parties will contractually try to cover themselves even further and there will be some animosity between the two. 

[Mizzy]

1 hour ago, krazyj said:

well it really depends on the outcome but Id imagine that even if a settlement is reached then both parties will contractually try to cover themselves even further and there will be some animosity between the two. 

Razbam is not coming back in my opinion, yet another platform with a bad experience.

Mizzy

[krazyj]

26 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

Razbam is not coming back in my opinion, yet another platform with a bad experience.

Mizzy

I personally think you are right, the only question is, how is their departure handled. IMO a settlement where ED will take the IP of the Modules already submitted into DCS. with a limitation that said that they could maintain the code for playability and with F15, they could complete x features already promised and then just maintain. and ONLY for DCS platform. 
 

[Horns]

3 hours ago, Ignition said:

Well, at the time the only aircrafts in DCS were the Ka-50 and the A-10C which both had already years of development.

Maybe the viggen and mig-21 also I don't remember.

We all know Razbam is not doing charity, if they were then they would still be working for free on their modules since ED stopped paying them more than a year ago.

I don't understand what you mean but outdated modules can be sold, Combined Arms from ED for example. It never got updated and also it never worked fine plus they increased the price since the caucasus map was improved.

I still don't understand why are you complaining for an aircraft that got improved over time, I can understand you if it still were basic as you call it. Many aircraft also got improved, for example the F-16C which was the worst release in DCS and now is much better simulated than the F-18C, it still has a TGP which is a joke but also the F-18 and I hope it gets improved in the sniper release after the well designed video of F-15E TGP.

 

I probably should have qualified what I meant by outdated, what I was saying was that modules have to be kept in a state where they function with the current version of DCS, so the fact that the M2K continued to be maintained was nothing to be grateful for, that was done so that the module could continue to be sold. If modules can still be sold when they no longer work with current DCS versions please correct me.

Re the M2K, I was simply saying that when we judge what Razbam have offered DCS customers as ‘complete’ modules, we should judge the M2K based on what was delivered as complete in 2017, before Razbam had to upgrade to score the AdA contract.
 

My overall point was that Razbam have passed off modules as complete when they have been ‘basic’ in the case of the M2K and flat-out incomplete in the AV-8B, so I don’t believe there is any reason to believe they will do better with the F-15E. There are some good things about the module and it could become something worthwhile, which is why I was saying it would be better for it to be in the hands of a different studio, where it would stand a better chance of actually being finished.

[PLAAF]

So, have they resolved their differences and decided to hold hands and sing Kongbaya yet?

[Slippa]

Campfire, acoustic guitar, giant Gorilla - check. 

[Ignition]

32 minutes ago, Horns said:

I probably should have qualified what I meant by outdated, what I was saying was that modules have to be kept in a state where they function with the current version of DCS, so the fact that the M2K continued to be maintained was nothing to be grateful for, that was done so that the module could continue to be sold. If modules can still be sold when they no longer work with current DCS versions please correct me.

Re the M2K, I was simply saying that when we judge what Razbam have offered DCS customers as ‘complete’ modules, we should judge the M2K based on what was delivered as complete in 2017, before Razbam had to upgrade to score the AdA contract.
 

My overall point was that Razbam have passed off modules as complete when they have been ‘basic’ in the case of the M2K and flat-out incomplete in the AV-8B, so I don’t believe there is any reason to believe they will do better with the F-15E. There are some good things about the module and it could become something worthwhile, which is why I was saying it would be better for it to be in the hands of a different studio, where it would stand a better chance of actually being finished.

The "finished" tag is still subjetive, the AV8B was going to receive an update sometime this year to address issues and improve other features. But now the update will never come.

The F-18 is out of Early Access and it has many things missing like datalink features or working wrong (like the video on the TGP). Though I do believe the "finished" tag should never be placed in any module since the nature of DCS is very dynamic (until the developer quits the game).

[Horns]

42 minutes ago, Ignition said:

The "finished" tag is still subjetive, the AV8B was going to receive an update sometime this year to address issues and improve other features. But now the update will never come.

The F-18 is out of Early Access and it has many things missing like datalink features or working wrong (like the video on the TGP). Though I do believe the "finished" tag should never be placed in any module since the nature of DCS is very dynamic (until the developer quits the game).

Re the AV-8B, I recognize that Razbam claimed on their Discord that they would do the update you refer to.  I find it extremely difficult to believe that, more than three years after calling the module feature complete, Razbam were really going to go back and add features which should have been delivered after they argued for so long that the module was complete. I do recognize that you feel differently and will never know now, so we can agree to disagree.

Other modules are delivering features under ‘product sustainment’, but at least two years after its release the M2K still has basic issues with the radar and aerodynamics - these weren’t peripheral features, they went to the heart of the module’s function.

I think it’s reasonable to say two years after a product leaves EA if it still lacks important features it’s incomplete. YMMV.

Edited November 9, 2024 by Horns
Clarification at start of first paragraph

[SkateZilla]

On 11/7/2024 at 8:54 PM, Ignition said:

You would wonder how basic ALL our DCS aircrafts are until real military institutions get involved. Even the so beloved ED F-18C.

The community needs to thank Razbam to update the M2K even after so many years instead of complaining.

Correction, the Community needs to thank Galinette, who recoded the M2K, for Free, regardless of being a contractor under RB.

On 11/7/2024 at 4:40 PM, Mizzy said:

Couldn't have said it better myself. You forgot that Razbam left MSFS leaving a mess and don't bother with what they did with Strike Fighters. When will people realise Razban doesn't do any development, they just publish other peoples work.

Mizzy

Not to mention they were the ONLY group charging for Individual Strike Fighters Aircraft Mods ~15-20 bucks, and they didn't even have to model cockpit systems at all.,

[Lasko]

On 11/8/2024 at 12:18 PM, Ignition said:

We all know Razbam is not doing charity, if they were then they would still be working for free on their modules since ED stopped paying them  starting an unauthorized side project utilizing IP they didn't have the rights to more than a year ago.

 

[Mizzy]

6 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Correction, the Community needs to thank Galinette, who recoded the M2K, for Free, regardless of being a contractor under RB.

Not to mention they were the ONLY group charging for Individual Strike Fighters Aircraft Mods ~15-20 bucks, and they didn't even have to model cockpit systems at all.,

I don't think you will convince the Razbamer's of what (he) really is and the real function of Razbam. I have said before, my jaw dropped when I heard they were developing for DCS, 'developing what' I asked myself. I hope ED can take the modules in question off the Publisher and give it to the developers. Razbam are not coming back to DCS and ED can publish the Developers work directly.

There is no need for another publisher in DCS, the South Atlantic map exposed the real function of Razbam and of course, the Developers are still updating the map and Razbam can't do a thing about it. The Orbx team were obviously smart not allowing Razbam to dictate anything when it comes to development of their map.

I wonder how long this post would last if I posted this on Zambrano's Discord 

Mizzy

[Mike Force Team]

@Mizzy There is a probability we still be discussing the impass between ED and Razbam this time in 2025. I am waiting like the next person to find how things work or do work out.  This is my opinion only.

Mike Force Team 

 

Edited November 10, 2024 by Mike Force Team

[Pipe]

Did I miss an official statement? Razbam is not coming back? Can you post a link to this please..

[Mizzy]

Is Zambrano going to give an official statement ? He said it was 'soon'! It's been several weeks now has it not! We are waiting !

Mizzy

Edited November 10, 2024 by Mizzy

[Mizzy]

3 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

@Mizzy There is a probability we still be discussing the impass between ED and Razbam this time in 2025. I am waiting like the next person to find how things work or do work out.

Mike Force Team 

 

 Call it a premonition. 

Sorry, I don't want to throw a proverbial grenade into the mix yet again, but the truth will prevail.

Mizzy 

Edited November 10, 2024 by Mizzy

[Mizzy]

2 hours ago, Pipe said:

Did I miss an official statement? Razbam is not coming back? Can you post a link to this please..

Did you not read my comment properly? I said it's my opinion! 

[rob10]

2 hours ago, Mizzy said:

Did you not read my comment properly? I said it's my opinion! 

In fairness, if you go back to the post you ended with "I wonder how long this post would last if I posted this on Zambrano's Discord" it definitely comes across as a statement rather than an opinion (especially if you only read that post).  May not have been what you intended, but that's how it reads.

Edited November 10, 2024 by rob10

[Pipe]

7 hours ago, Mizzy said:

I don't think you will convince the Razbamer's of what (he) really is and the real function of Razbam. I have said before, my jaw dropped when I heard they were developing for DCS, 'developing what' I asked myself. I hope ED can take the modules in question off the Publisher and give it to the developers. Razbam are not coming back to DCS and ED can publish the Developers work directly.

There is no need for another publisher in DCS, the South Atlantic map exposed the real function of Razbam and of course, the Developers are still updating the map and Razbam can't do a thing about it. The Orbx team were obviously smart not allowing Razbam to dictate anything when it comes to development of their map.

I wonder how long this post would last if I posted this on Zambrano's Discord 

Mizzy

Read it right here, doesn’t say anything about opinion

7 hours ago, Mizzy said:

I don't think you will convince the Razbamer's of what (he) really is and the real function of Razbam. I have said before, my jaw dropped when I heard they were developing for DCS, 'developing what' I asked myself. I hope ED can take the modules in question off the Publisher and give it to the developers. Razbam are not coming back to DCS and ED can publish the Developers work directly.

There is no need for another publisher in DCS, the South Atlantic map exposed the real function of Razbam and of course, the Developers are still updating the map and Razbam can't do a thing about it. The Orbx team were obviously smart not allowing Razbam to dictate anything when it comes to development of their map.

I wonder how long this post would last if I posted this on Zambrano's Discord 

Mizzy

Read it right here, doesn’t say anything about opinion

7 hours ago, Mizzy said:

I don't think you will convince the Razbamer's of what (he) really is and the real function of Razbam. I have said before, my jaw dropped when I heard they were developing for DCS, 'developing what' I asked myself. I hope ED can take the modules in question off the Publisher and give it to the developers. Razbam are not coming back to DCS and ED can publish the Developers work directly.

There is no need for another publisher in DCS, the South Atlantic map exposed the real function of Razbam and of course, the Developers are still updating the map and Razbam can't do a thing about it. The Orbx team were obviously smart not allowing Razbam to dictate anything when it comes to development of their map.

I wonder how long this post would last if I posted this on Zambrano's Discord 

Mizzy

Sorry about the triple post..

Edited November 10, 2024 by Pipe

[NineLine]

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that anything about this topic beyond official posts, announcements, and comments from official people are just opinions.