Jayhawk1971 Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 vor 9 Minuten schrieb BIGNEWY: It will be a huge patch especially with the terrain introduction and updates, plus all the new features and fixes. Hopefully we can share a log with you all before the patch. You could reduce the patch size, earn some revenue, dampen the blow of the patch delay and provide me with hours of joy and entertainment - not to mention earning eternal gratitude - literally over night, if you guys would consider doing an independent release of the 3rd party campaigns that have been submitted to you, say, tomorrow afternoon UTC.
Goetsch Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 I first played DCS in 2.5, and I'm sure there are quite a few people here who, like me, have been dreaming of an Afghan terrain for DCS since day one, and although it's been delayed a couple times lately, it's not a bad thing to daydream some more since we've been waiting for so many years .... Keep waiting .... 4
JupiterJoe Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 16 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said: It will be a huge patch especially with the terrain introduction and updates, plus all the new features and fixes. Hopefully we can share a log with you all before the patch. Anything for the F-14 included this time? It's been a minute. 1 Intel Core i7-8700K CPU @ 3.70GHz - 64GB RAM - Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 - Microsoft Sidewinder Force-feedback 2 - Virpil Mongoose CM-3 Throttle
Badger1-1 Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said: We already suffered that era until a couple of years ago ... I much prefer how it is now, so that the patch drama happens just once a month rather than weekly. I know, I was there. Several smaller patches wont have the same amount of bugs and complexity plus 3rd Partys can get their fixes out much faster. 2
=Mac= Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 As I see it (as an ex-IT guy), the ED coding staff is too small, improperly managed, and QA is missing (which dumps QA on us.) I was a developer back when the IBM 360/370 was THE thing. Nothing I ever released had coding flaws in it. A customer would want more things added but that usually brought about a weekend addition followed by a six week QA check. There was no such thing (back then) as a Beta release. All of it was a finished thing. If we said that "it" did something, and it didn't or created a problem, the company's name was mud and died off. Coders, Docs, System Analyists, DP managers, and company owners/operators rarely made it back into the "known" IT world. Sometimes, good ones ended up at university, changed careers, or retired. Idiots would work until burn-out and quit. I got burned out and tried several years lecturing at colleges and university, and quit anyway. ED is the ONLY mil-sim able to give us what we all want. ED is seriously flawed. We all just have to live with it and enjoy the miracles ED produces in the manner in which they produce. 17 1 The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...
Rudel_chw Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 18 minutes ago, =Mac= said: I was a developer back when the IBM 360/370 was THE thing. Nothing I ever released had coding flaws in it. I was at my first IT job back then, but the complexity level of an IBM-360/370 Cobol-Cics, Fortran or PL/I was several orders of magnitude less than what a current C++ simulation software can have, not even mentioning the 3D software aspects, that back then didn't even exist. 4 For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600 - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia RTX2080 - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB
Bravo020 Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 8 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said: I was at my first IT job back then, but the complexity level of an IBM-360/370 Cobol-Cics, Fortran or PL/I was several orders of magnitude less than what a current C++ simulation software can have, not even mentioning the 3D software aspects, that back then didn't even exist. I had the pleasure of having to use punched cards around that time.. So thankful that I don't have to deal with them anymore.... 2
zildac Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 I had the pleasure of having to use punched cards around that time.. So thankful that I don't have to deal with them anymore....Ah, and then you drop the deck for the last batch run of your shift 3 14900KS | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 6600 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero
kontiuka Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said: It will be a huge patch especially with the terrain introduction and updates, plus all the new features and fixes. Hopefully we can share a log with you all before the patch. a log, even a tentative one, would be most welcome. thx.
Ala12Rv-Tundra Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 2 hours ago, Seether1980 said: Questionable, these delays keep happening. It doesn't exactly reflect a professional approach to patch management, despite all the love for the game and the company Eagle Dynamics. Please plan for more buffer time in the future and release the patch earlier if possible. This way, the community won't get as frustrated. the updates or patches are far from a win-win situation for ED Patch is released, possible outcomes: - the sim becomes unplayable: users complain - the sim is playable but with frequent bugs: users complain - the sim with all the new features/stuff work flawlessly: users asking what's next ED??? next map? next module? next core upgrade? dynamic campaign? no news?? lack of transparency? pay razbam!! hawk=strike eagle?? is ED near bankrupt? you leave users in the shadows!!.... and so on ad infinitum 11 i5 8400 | 32 Gb RAM | RTX 2080Ti | Virpil Mongoose T-50 base w/ Warthog & Hornet sticks | Warthog throttle | Cougar throttle USB | Orion 2 throttle base w/ Viper & Hornet grips| VKB T-Rudder Mk IV | Oculus Rift S | Buddy-Fox A-10 UFC | 2x TM MFDs & 1x WW DDI | 2x Bass shakers | SIMple SIMpit chair | WW TakeOff panel | Andre JetSeat | WW Hornet UFC | WW Viper ICP FC3 - Warthog - F-5E - Harrier - NTTR - Hornet - Tomcat - Huey - Viper - C-101 - PG - Hip - SuperCarrier - Syria - Warthog II - Hind - South Atlantic - Sinai - Strike Eagle - Phantom - Mirage F1 - Afghanistan - Irak
Schmidtfire Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 Maybe it is the only way forward nowdays, but I think the longer update cycles is a mistake. It seems like a large part of the community is running on salty fumes since a while back. And while a few Pre-Order delays and the RB situation contributes, the biggest factor, in my opinion, is the longer patch cycles. Early Access content needs to move at certain pace to keep players happy and it's not good that we're running at 6 weeks+ between updates. They get frustrated or bored by waiting. And when the update finally arrives, their most anticipated feature did not make it in time. So then another six weeks of frustration begins. It is a dilemma how to deliver both stability and pace, but I think it's worth figuring out. Anyways, I hope that this next update turns out great when it arrives. 9
=Mac= Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 (edited) 42 minutes ago, zildac said: Ah, and then you drop the deck for the last batch run of your shift I dropped an entire storage tray of programs for a run once and the operator had a heart attack. I told him that it was too much to sort so I ran the puncher for everything again. $$$ but it was a multi-billion dollar corp, so... That was on an NCR Criterion (six drives for 200 MB disk packs with heads in the pack), Cobol. Key to disk for data but cards for programs. Go figure. IBM 360, 370, 4341, Cobol, Fortran (not used, but I taught it at university) , Assembler (16 bit instruction set??? I forget) and RPGIII. CICS, JCL... lots of forgotten memories... I never was exposed to PL1. Basic (several versions), various 8 bit processor assemblers, a COBOL (!) compiler for a TRS-80, RPG II & III, Pascal and C/C+ and C++ were not invented yet. Oh, and LISP. There's another one I coded in but I forget because it was not very popular. Sorry for the distraction. You all please continue. Edited July 4, 2024 by =Mac= 3 The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...
Jayhawk1971 Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 I don't even think it's the frequency of the major patches. It's the infrequency of smaller hotfixes in-between that contribute to the high frustration levels. Waiting weeks for an comparatively easy fix for a bug that prevents you from using a module or playing a campaign for no apparent reasons (=reasons not transparently communicated to the customer) is irritating. 9
shagrat Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 vor 1 Stunde schrieb Jayhawk1971: You could reduce the patch size, earn some revenue, dampen the blow of the patch delay and provide me with hours of joy and entertainment - not to mention earning eternal gratitude - literally over night, if you guys would consider doing an independent release of the 3rd party campaigns that have been submitted to you, say, tomorrow afternoon UTC. That doesn't work, as it means compiling a build minus with the campaigns and the current (!) DCS version that needs to be tested, to ensure the Campaigns at least work somehow decent enough... and that's assuming the Missions don't use any new script/trigger feature that requires the new build... The eternal circle of development hell. 1 Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)
Gunfreak Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said: It will be a huge patch especially with the terrain introduction and updates, plus all the new features and fixes. Hopefully we can share a log with you all before the patch. I do think a change log with tomorrow's newsletter would probably calm the room down. 1 i7 13700k @5.2ghz, GTX 5090 OC, 128Gig ram 4800mhz DDR5, M2 drive.
Ala12Rv-Tundra Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 1 minute ago, Gunfreak said: I do think a change log with tomorrow's newsletter would probably calm the room down. What for? To be blamed when anything is removed, like the list of features of Chinook early access release?? 1 i5 8400 | 32 Gb RAM | RTX 2080Ti | Virpil Mongoose T-50 base w/ Warthog & Hornet sticks | Warthog throttle | Cougar throttle USB | Orion 2 throttle base w/ Viper & Hornet grips| VKB T-Rudder Mk IV | Oculus Rift S | Buddy-Fox A-10 UFC | 2x TM MFDs & 1x WW DDI | 2x Bass shakers | SIMple SIMpit chair | WW TakeOff panel | Andre JetSeat | WW Hornet UFC | WW Viper ICP FC3 - Warthog - F-5E - Harrier - NTTR - Hornet - Tomcat - Huey - Viper - C-101 - PG - Hip - SuperCarrier - Syria - Warthog II - Hind - South Atlantic - Sinai - Strike Eagle - Phantom - Mirage F1 - Afghanistan - Irak
Jayhawk1971 Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 vor 5 Minuten schrieb shagrat: That doesn't work, as it means compiling a build minus with the campaigns and the current (!) DCS version that needs to be tested, to ensure the Campaigns at least work somehow decent enough... and that's assuming the Missions don't use any new script/trigger feature that requires the new build... The eternal circle of development hell. If they need to work on the patch for another week, won't they have to re-compile the whole thing anyway before sending it? The campaigns should be working with the current version, shouldn't they? Baltic did send the finished campaign by the end of April for a release in May. Apparently it got postponed because of the Phantom release (so as not to be "drowned out"). So I assume this campaign has been thoroughly tested for the current version. 1
Gunfreak Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 1 minute ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said: What for? To be blamed when anything is removed, like the list of features of Chinook early access release?? To show why this patch is so big and what we can look forward too. But sure if you just want to he grumpy and stew in your own juices so be it. But I think having something to talk about and dicuss what we're looking forward to is better than complaining. 1 i7 13700k @5.2ghz, GTX 5090 OC, 128Gig ram 4800mhz DDR5, M2 drive.
shagrat Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 vor 1 Minute schrieb Jayhawk1971: So I assume this campaign has been thoroughly tested for the current version. That's how bugs make it into releases... And yes, they need to compile at least one new build and test/QA it with the beta testers if the bugs are fixed and no new critical bugs are introduced. So splitting this into two releases only adds more workload. Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)
Jayhawk1971 Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 vor 9 Minuten schrieb shagrat: That's how bugs make it into releases... I don't understand. How can a working version that has been sitting on one of ED's servers for 2.5 months - and should have been released in May - introduce bugs? 3
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted July 4, 2024 Author ED Team Posted July 4, 2024 6 minutes ago, Jayhawk1971 said: I don't understand. How can a working version that has been sitting on one of ED's servers for 2.5 months - and should have been released in May - introduce bugs? you have it all wrong, no idea where you are getting your information from. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Ala12Rv-Tundra Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 40 minutes ago, Gunfreak said: To show why this patch is so big and what we can look forward too. But sure if you just want to he grumpy and stew in your own juices so be it. But I think having something to talk about and dicuss what we're looking forward to is better than complaining. Is so big because it's brings tons of patience for ed community managers 2 i5 8400 | 32 Gb RAM | RTX 2080Ti | Virpil Mongoose T-50 base w/ Warthog & Hornet sticks | Warthog throttle | Cougar throttle USB | Orion 2 throttle base w/ Viper & Hornet grips| VKB T-Rudder Mk IV | Oculus Rift S | Buddy-Fox A-10 UFC | 2x TM MFDs & 1x WW DDI | 2x Bass shakers | SIMple SIMpit chair | WW TakeOff panel | Andre JetSeat | WW Hornet UFC | WW Viper ICP FC3 - Warthog - F-5E - Harrier - NTTR - Hornet - Tomcat - Huey - Viper - C-101 - PG - Hip - SuperCarrier - Syria - Warthog II - Hind - South Atlantic - Sinai - Strike Eagle - Phantom - Mirage F1 - Afghanistan - Irak
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted July 4, 2024 Author ED Team Posted July 4, 2024 We may share the patch notes early but best to wait and see for now. We should have some news in tomorrows newsletter about the delay. thank you 7 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
shagrat Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 vor 2 Stunden schrieb Goetsch: I first played DCS in 2.5, and I'm sure there are quite a few people here who, like me, have been dreaming of an Afghan terrain for DCS since day one, and although it's been delayed a couple times lately, it's not a bad thing to daydream some more since we've been waiting for so many years .... Keep waiting .... LOL I am waiting for Afghanistan since "DCS: A-10C Warthog public beta" back in 2009/10... So next week or in two weeks, we will get there. 2 Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)
Gunfreak Posted July 4, 2024 Posted July 4, 2024 17 minutes ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said: Is so big because it's brings tons of patience for ed community managers It will let people have something else to talk about instead of complaining i7 13700k @5.2ghz, GTX 5090 OC, 128Gig ram 4800mhz DDR5, M2 drive.
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