Piss Poor Fliers!

[Bee_Sting]

why don't people take the time out and do the training and the reading. it seems to me that most just wanna jump into the ka-50 and just fly. then they get mad or stressed if they can fly the ka-50. i know the game is really good to gamers and it has alot of eye candy views. why does these xboxers and PS3'ers just wanna jump in and just fly. i have to remind them this is a simulation game(closest you can get to the real thing) and they have to do the training. when i kick them off the server for NOT mastering the basics they wanna get mad. WOT THE FUNK! comments! :joystick: :pilotfly:

[159th_Viper]

What Basics? Are they running about TK'ing everybody?

[Woots]

I've been taken out once or twice on the pad by someone flying into me. Might have been the server cause it happened more than once. But based on some of the flying I've seen . . . . it makes me wonder.

[Bee_Sting]

basic flying tech for the ka-50. controlling it! basic flight!

[159th_Viper]

From Day #1 I have flown the Kamov exclusively Online for extended periods of time, ie Missions/Ops etc etc. Meaning I Learned the Basics and all the Rest Online.

 

I might not be alone in my preferences - Are you saying that you are Kicking Players from your Server for no other reason than them not adhering to/Living Up to Your Particular Standard of 'Flight'? How does that influence the Server Mission at all? How is one to Improve if the Opportunity to Improve is Curtailed by being Kicked from a Mission whilst trying to Improve?

 

Not trying to Bust your Chops here......Just Curious is all :)

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

You know thats what server passwords are for. And don't tell us you want it open so people can join. You can't have the best of both worlds: no noobs/good pilots. If flying with people who know their stuff is so important to you then organize flights with people you know. Hell I've practiced quite a bit and done homework and still have moments of pure noobness! But having an open server doesn't help and like Viper above lots of people just jump into this online from the start myself included. Even when I play by myself I usually do so in my own server online.

[Warbird_242]

why don't people take the time out and do the training and the reading. it seems to me that most just wanna jump into the ka-50 and just fly. then they get mad or stressed if they can fly the ka-50. i know the game is really good to gamers and it has alot of eye candy views. why does these xboxers and PS3'ers just wanna jump in and just fly. i have to remind them this is a simulation game(closest you can get to the real thing) and they have to do the training. when i kick them off the server for NOT mastering the basics they wanna get mad. WOT THE FUNK! comments! :joystick: :pilotfly:

 

I mean no offense by this but some people do not have the time! It's a bit snobbish for want of a better world assuming that everyone has a) the ability and b) the patience to read through all the manuals. For the record, I hate the competitiveness between all the consoles/PCs, it is immature, stupid and even though I can sympathise with you because I know noobs can be annoying, I think that you should try and help them learn the basics etc... anyway rant over

[joey45]

Cos they think it's an Arcade type of game like HAWX...

[Scooternutz]

Send those guys to http://missionserver.16thaccw.org/. We will teach them. We have 13 solid Black Shark Pilots. What we teach we relearn as well.

[L4key]

Surely no-one buys BS thinking its like HAWX??!

 

It's about balance, I really don't have a lot of time to sim - though believe me I try and make time! Had I needed to learn full start up for example or ABRIS waypoint planning to get going and getting success in missions I'd probably not be flying now, but would have discarded.

 

ED have to make a product that is ultimately as realistic as possible but they'd never make any money in this market if it was absolutely rigid in it's 'real or nothing' approach.

 

IMHO noobs should be treasured, not got at, for they represent a potential convert to simming that provides income for ED and as such development funds for A10 etc. Surely private servers on MP get rid of berks who really can't fly and have no real intent on trying to do things properly?

 

Anyway, treat a noob as another helper toward getting new modules and the continued success of ED. :thumbup:

[Scooternutz]

when i kick them off the server for NOT mastering the basics they wanna get mad.

 

You can password the mission. I get frustrated as well but not everyone takes it as serious as I do. We have some hotdogs and they learned the airplane just by messing around. We are an AF squad and when we fly AF we are by the book and realism, brevity, tactics, etc is a must.

When we fly Black Shark we are pretty loose even during intense missions. We want to get to the point of AF with BS but we are not there yet. We are trying to boost our membership by introducing BS very casually and then we will ramp it up. I have learned so much just by watching the horsing around. True in life, I have seen helicopter students during their first sim get permission to hotdog to get it out of their system. I was one of them. Those that want it will stay, those that do not will go back to HAWX on the ole 360 or PS3. Hang in there. ;)

[mvsgas]

The part that annoys me is when the get me involve. I have been in a server before, not bothering anyone, just minding my business, and there is always some one that has to demonstrate how much control of the helicopter they have. I'm at the edge of a city, scouting, looking for targets... here come "Joe Smoe" deciding it is good idea to hover in front of me, as close as he/she can get. Then ...BOOOM! the rotor collide and now I just blew up because someone wanted to show off. That annoys me

[Scooternutz]

That reminds of a time when one of ours was getting very frustrated. He kept trying to take off and would go ballistic and crash. During all this there were five of us bouncing all over the place landing, taking off, hovering, fancy flying etc. Come to find out his Y axis wasn't set in the UI. This guy is a great pilot and can you imagine his aggravation at seeing all of us flying well. We were telling him to check the ASE, trimmer, throttles, and everything else we could think of to help. Once we figured it out he was smooth as glass.

[Boneski]

This Thread = FULL FAIL :pilotfly:

 

Well it's Your server But Their game! Password your server sessions and stop getting "Mad" about a none issue...

 

why don't people take the time out and do the training and the reading. it seems to me that most just wanna jump into the ka-50 and just fly. then they get mad or stressed if they can fly the ka-50. i know the game is really good to gamers and it has alot of eye candy views. why does these xboxers and PS3'ers just wanna jump in and just fly. i have to remind them this is a simulation game(closest you can get to the real thing) and they have to do the training. when i kick them off the server for NOT mastering the basics they wanna get mad. WOT THE FUNK! comments! :joystick: :pilotfly:

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

Thats what Thorton Reed would say!

[StrongHarm]

I think it would be nice to have a qualification system. It would add to the realism as well. Quals could be redone every six months maybe. It could be simple stuff that takes very little time to test on... basic stabilization (sim does the math like a black box to see if envelope was jinky) manual startup, weapons employment, basic navigation, basic situational awareness. There could be different levels of qualification and the server could restrict a certain level. If you want ace pilots that can do a funnel maneuver while site gunning tin cans, you set it to 10, if you don't care if they know a lot but can fly the bird, set it to 2. Hours in the bird could be a second param maybe.

 

I personally didn't fly multi player until I had read the entire manual, watched the producers notes, and had decent mastery of the bird. I guess it's respect for the experienced people flying as well as self-respect. When someone is on a server and says "I've never used the datalink system" I'm dumbfounded.

 

I've been playing for three weeks.

 

This is a simulation.

[JD_LincsUK]

The part that annoys me is when the get me involve. I have been in a server before, not bothering anyone, just minding my business, and there is always some one that has to demonstrate how much control of the helicopter they have. I'm at the edge of a city, scouting, looking for targets... here come "Joe Smoe" deciding it is good idea to hover in front of me, as close as he/she can get. Then ...BOOOM! the rotor collide and now I just blew up because someone wanted to show off. That annoys me

 

 

I had a guy do that in FC when I was practising with the Su25T.

 

I blew him away with an R70 or rockets (can't remember which) and he didn't bother me any more.

 

He actually found it funny that I blew him up - so he might be a dork but at least he was a dork with a sense of humour :)

 

JD

[MTFDarkEagle]

I think it would be nice to have a qualification system.

 

yes!yes!yes!yes!yes! good idea!

[Grimes]

Everyone has the freedom of choice to play the game however they want to play it. Whether it be single player or online. I honestly think learning to fly it online is a better idea than through the training. Simply because you have someone to interact with and ask questions to. They can give you encouragement that you are doing something correctly. Sure practice in single player is a good way to reinforce and perfect your training, but the cold and heartless training tutorials turned me off of that form of learning.

 

If we had the funds to run a secondary server I would have dedicated "game-mode" server up. Why? Because it seems the majority of servers and players on this forum frown upon such an idea. And as L4Key said, we should develop these pilots to transition to "sim-mode".

 

For the record, I still use the "cheat" auto start-up, but I understand the ABRIS and weapons systems enough to enjoy the game. By the way, whoever decided to label it a "cheat" rather than an "aide" unintentionally reinforced the usage of it by the hardcore simmers as the standard fall back argument against anything that is not a sim. Other fallback arguments include but are not limited to: Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii, Sony Playstation 3, and any game that is not Black Shark or Falcon 4.

[element1108]

Lol showoff comment made me laugh. It's cute simmers showing off for ourselves...annoying but cute lol.

 

I would love an Americas army (the first one) type of training. Virtual classes you had to sit through and maybe write an exam on. (not necessary but maybe to begin the campaign). A simplified version of ground/flight school. Earn your virtual wings. Flight training as well, basic/complex/emergency/nav etc.

 

I know that would eat into producing time but I think it would be cool. I think fighter ops wanted something like this. I can't remember it was so long ago I read up on it.

 

Each flight would have full ramp start, takeoff and landings with flight hours logged and accounted for towards gradution.

 

Might be a lot of wasted time though, probably something I want hehe.

[astrospud]

I've been flying since August last year and about 70% has been online. I flew with the VAAF who taught me a great deal.

That being said, it is AU$90 off the shelf here and any 15 year old kid who's thinking BS is like BF2 or ARMA where the gunships are easy to fly is clearly mistaken, but this does not mean they should be excluded because of poor ability. TK'ers to be kicked and banned - that I can understand, but not every one can be "733t". :)

It has been said in previous posts, but I'll add to it anyway:

Lock out your server if you want to exclude noobs.

Form an elite squadron of your own, at the exclusion of all others, and challenge other elite (or not so, as the case may be) squadrons in friendlies and scrims.

I am like Grimes in that I still use the startup "aide" (thnx for making it sound so much more acceptible, Grimes :)), but also understand weapon systems, ABRIS, AP behavior and when to employ it, flight dynamics and so on. Only because I am passionate about helicopters.

These "piss poor fliers" might have a similar passion, but don't spend the necessary time reading the manual, going through tutorials, etc, that's all.

 

 

I think it would be nice to have a qualification system. It would add to the realism as well. Quals could be redone every six months maybe. It could be simple stuff that takes very little time to test on... basic stabilization (sim does the math like a black box to see if envelope was jinky) manual startup, weapons employment, basic navigation, basic situational awareness. There could be different levels of qualification and the server could restrict a certain level. If you want ace pilots that can do a funnel maneuver while site gunning tin cans, you set it to 10, if you don't care if they know a lot but can fly the bird, set it to 2. Hours in the bird could be a second param maybe.

 

I personally didn't fly multi player until I had read the entire manual, watched the producers notes, and had decent mastery of the bird. I guess it's respect for the experienced people flying as well as self-respect. When someone is on a server and says "I've never used the datalink system" I'm dumbfounded.

 

I've been playing for three weeks.

 

This is a simulation.

 

True about it being a simulation, and kudos for showing respect, but not everyone has the attention of real-world path to flying as you may have.

Hell, I even bought my first RC helicopter before I ever flew a fixed wing model - light and fluffy analogy, I know, but I'm sure you understand what I mean :).

 

I have personally helped one new flyer (name escapes me) in clearing out some static targets (tanks) on J's AEF server last year. I could see it was difficult for him to get control of the ship in the first place, but the gratitude I recieved and the elation he showed when he got it was great!

 

Repsect the new player. They can and probably will be just as good in time.

[Renato71]

Just the other day there was a guy on 4c at HL with Q: "I can fire AMRAAM, but how do you lock in BVR?"....

That produced some lenghty laughter on our TS :megalol:

 

Sometimes, one step from manual Content is one step too much.

[Deigs]

I play DCS 100% multiplayer online, always have. It's the guys in the server and Ventrilo who taught me how to fly.

 

When I first started out I did everything wrong, clipped people in flight, shot at the wrong stuff, couldn't land properly, and released missiles at things I'd have been court marshaled for. The old dogs would sit back (a fair distance) and then quietly suggest how to do it. I had the manual but I learnt more from my peers and the experience, then a textbook. It's not lazy, it's just how I learn.

 

I now teach other new pilots how to fly with the same patience that was given to me.

If you love your hobby then encourage those struggling into voice comms (like team speak or Ventrilo) and help them out. I'll guarantee that those new guys will keep coming back and you'll build new pilots and pioneers for DCS.

[StrongHarm]

I like to help people too, it's always been my nature in any game. I wouldn't help someone learn to play a first person shooter if they didn't know how to use a mouse though. I hear people making a lot of excuses about 'how they learn' but when it comes right down to it, they're too lazy to read through the manual. I don't mean to sound bitter, but this is pretty common. Being in the IT industry I can tell you that people pay a LOT of money to save themselves five minutes of reading. People who don't do the core learning in Blackshark, and expect others to walk them through, are doing the same thing, but for free. Now, there are those who are intimidated by the complexity and face a wall that keeps them from learning, granted. If I identified that in a person I would teach them to a degree and refer them to the manual for specifics while. That's when they get their wings. I'll always happily spend hours helping someone... if they help themselves.

[26-J39]

Just the other day there was a guy on 4c at HL with Q: "I can fire AMRAAM, but how do you lock in BVR?"....

That produced some lenghty laughter on our TS :megalol:

 

:D Does sound funny :D

 

@Strongharm, Deigs & Astrospud + others

 

Thank's for the positive responses.. Now were talking ;)