Landing assistance

[Maazzoc]

Okay been a while since i introduced me to the the forums, loving this indepth game, but im stuck on a few things and need some pointers on landing...

 

First up... Landing...

 

i have now run the tutorial numerous times now and got it that i can fly in around 400feet before the ILS marker and landing lights, touch down within the first 20-30 feet of the runway and still cant seem to brake correctly.. Is there something im missing? im holding W down with full flaps on..

 

so any assistance here would be helpful :)

[159th_Viper]

Aero-Brake for as long as possible. Landing with speedbrakes?

 

Post a track and we can have a wee look :)

[WarriorX]

How fast are you going at touchdown? 125-135 knots is optimal.

[Maazzoc]

didnt see an option for a track on the training when i finished tonight.... will defo retry 2morrow

 

touch down speed was touch and go between 130-140... was losing alt, very fast coming in over the water so had to level out the last 500feet, then i landed bangon 20-30 yards onto the front of the runway

[LostOblivion]

On an ILS approach you want to stay on the final leg at around 200 knots about 7-10 nm from the runway at about 2500-3000 ft AGL to intercept the glideslope. When on the glide slope you want to settle on an approach speed of about 115-135 knots and trim to have a 2.5 degree pitch down attitude paying attention to the ILS glideslope on your HSI and ADI. Final approach speed depends on your loadout and fuel amount, but what I use is usually between 115 for light aircraft and 135 for heavy aircraft. When on the glideslope you want to extend landing gear, flaps to DOWN, speedbrakes to 40%, and once touchdown, reduce throttle to IDLE and increase speedbrakes to max. When the landing gear sensors feel pressure, your speedbrakes will be able to extend fully. Gently apply toe brakes at 80 knots.

 

If you are slighly below or slightly above the vertical glideslope, i.e. you're too low or high, you should use your throttle to control altitude and attitude.

Edited June 27, 2011 by LostOblivion

[chaos]

When on the glide slope you want to settle on an approach speed of about 115-135 knots and trim to have a 2.5 degree pitch down attitude...

 

Your pitch will be on or above the horizon. I assume you meant VVI at 3 deg.?

 

...and once touchdown, reduce throttle to IDLE and increase speedbrakes to max. When the landing gear sensors feel pressure, your speedbrakes will be able to extend fully. Gently apply toe brakes at 80 knots.

 

Apply brakes as soon as all 3 wheels are on the runway. If you start to apply brakes at 80kts you risk an over-run.

 

If you are slighly below or slightly above the vertical glideslope, i.e. you're too low or high, you should use your throttle to control altitude and attitude.

 

? Ummm... no :) ...but I won't get into that again except to say that you control attitude with the stick. Thrust Levers makes airplane go fast or slow. End of lesson :)

[Nu-NRG]

Brake when all three landing gears touch the tarmac. Extend air brakes to full. Oh and don't forget to cut throttle to idle. :music_whistling:

[hassata]

Put your flaps up as soon as you touch down.

[genbrien]

Thrust Levers makes airplane go fast or slow. End of lesson :)

wrong...

 

You control speed with stick(attitude)

and altitude with thrust lever(power)

 

End of lesson :smartass::music_whistling:;)

[LostOblivion]

Your pitch will be on or above the horizon. I assume you meant VVI at 3 deg.?

 

Yes. Pay attention to the ADI and the ILS steering bars.

 

Apply brakes as soon as all 3 wheels are on the runway. If you start to apply brakes at 80kts you risk an over-run.

 

You generally want to avoid using wheel brakes at too high speeds.

 

? Ummm... no :) ...but I won't get into that again except to say that you control attitude with the stick. Thrust Levers makes airplane go fast or slow. End of lesson :)

 

When approaching a runway for landing, this is the low turbulence/little wind standard way to maintain correct glideslope path by adjusting the throttle, thus the speed yes, but ultimately the altitude and attitude. Making minor adjustments to the thrust gives for a smoother ride down to touchdown. On a landing approach, you usually want to control speed with the stick (attitude) and altitude with the thrust.

[automag928]

On my approach I try to stay between 130-140knts with speedbrakes about 30%, and I pop the speedbrakes 100%, chop throttles, and try to have a nice slow sink rate, touching down @ 100-110 knts, with positive pitch on the nose.

Speaking of landings, and not to toot my own horn, but I made a incredible, spectacular landing today with one engine out, and shot to pieces. The wheels so gently kissed the pavement without even a chirp. It was so good, I saved the track to watch again! :DI LOVE THIS SIM!!! :pilotfly:

[slug88]

Put your flaps up as soon as you touch down.

 

Why would you do this? It'll make you use even more runway..

[genbrien]

Why would you do this? It'll make you use even more runway..

 

No becaus there will be more weight on the wheels, so you're going to stop sooner

[slug88]

No becaus there will be more weight on the wheels, so you're going to stop sooner

 

It's true that braking effectiveness is directly proportional to the force of friction between wheels and runway, and also that the strength of this force is partly determined by weight on wheels. However, I would've thought that at the speeds at which flaps are actually providing noticeable lift, the limiting factor to braking force would be the tire rubber's shear strength, rather than the normal force. Hence the anti-skid switch, which works by decreasing brake strength to ensure that the wheel rolls rather than slides; in effect it enforces an upper limit on the force of friction. Therefore I'd expect that the only effect of flaps on braking effectiveness would be the positive contribution of aerobraking. Of course, this is all pure intuition on my part so please correct me where I'm wrong :).

Edited June 28, 2011 by slug88

[Frostiken]

While I can't say I pay particular attention to it, I've seen plenty of aircraft land and only put their flaps up on their way back to EOR.

[hassata]

Check out Bipod's stellar look into the subject: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=66217&highlight=landing+distance. Post 28 covers the admittedly small effect of flaps up, but every little bit helps if you're running out of tarmac (which I have yet to understand if you're landing at the correct speed, aerobraking, and getting on the brakes when all three are down).

 

 

Edit: And though it's apparently not SOP, I do not use the air brakes when landing and still have a lot of tarmac left irrespective. I understand air brakes are advisable in case you want to go around and want to shave off spool up time.

Edited June 28, 2011 by hassata

[genbrien]

if you're running out of tarmac (which I have yet to understand if you're landing at the correct speed, aerobraking, and getting on the brakes when all three are down).

 

+1 :huh:

 

Landed at batumi with full fuel +WW3 paypload(that equal 110% of MTOW:music_whistling:) at 150kt and can still stop before the end of the runway......

If you land with no payload and not full fuel, at less than 120kt, you can easily get out of the runway with the middle taxiway. Always doing that in the Georgian Hammer campaign

 

PS: personally I dont raise flaps till on the taxiway :smilewink:

[Frostiken]

Actually there's one important situation within which you can run out of runway - if you have a hydro failure and neglected to turn anti-skid off. Anti-skid will suck the system dry and leave you with no braking power at all.

 

My question is does that flaps-up data actually correspond with any actual programming in the sim, or is that just a glitch of other things? I cannot POSSIBLY imagine that the relatively minor lifting ability of flaps is counteracting enough aircraft weight to have that noticeable an impact, especially at low speeds where a flap would act like less of a lifting body and much more like a giant airbrake.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Frostiken

[Wolf Rider]

On an ILS approach you want to stay on the final leg at around 200 knots about 7-10 nm from the runway at about 2500-3000 ft AGL to intercept the glideslope. When on the glide slope you want to settle on an approach speed of about 115-135 knots and trim to have a 2.5 degree pitch down attitude paying attention to the ILS glideslope on your HSI and ADI. Final approach speed depends on your loadout and fuel amount, but what I use is usually between 115 for light aircraft and 135 for heavy aircraft. When on the glideslope you want to extend landing gear, flaps to DOWN, speedbrakes to 40%, and once touchdown, reduce throttle to IDLE and increase speedbrakes to max. When the landing gear sensors feel pressure, your speedbrakes will be able to extend fully. Gently apply toe brakes at 80 knots.

 

If you are slighly below or slightly above the vertical glideslope, i.e. you're too low or high, you should use your throttle to control altitude and attitude.

 

use the AoA indication gauge, on the lower left of the flight panel, to set the pitch to the 19, 20, 21 degree mark.

(you'll see three segments of the right hand side and a big long one on the bottom of the gauge... landing in the top segment of three, set for maximum range in the middle segment of three and use the lower segment of three for cruising... when going flat out, you'll be under the 12 degree mark going clockwise)

[Fish]

check out the 'flight fundamentals' section on this sticky thread

 

'SEEING IS BELIEVING'

[effte]

Check out Bipod's stellar look into the subject: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=66217&highlight=landing+distance. Post 28 covers the admittedly small effect of flaps up,

 

Bear in mind that the referenced thread stems from the beta period, when the A/S was effectively inoperative.

[Nufsed]

Here's a little trick I use when coming in "Hot" wait until your speed reduces below 80k then pull back hard on the stick causing the elevator to become another air brake, use in conjunction with wheel brakes...works every time. Can't believe how much they have modelled in this sim..amazing. :smilewink:

[Maazzoc]

Cheers for all the input chaps, eventually tonight i have landed the plane touching down on what i call the bullseye (30-50) yards at start of runway tonight after running the AA training, maverick training.

 

what i have found missing is actual training missions putting all this into practice, ie, take off, setting up SOIs AG, unguided, mavericks and some AA so we can actually learn how to..

 

other things missing, (or i cant find em) is training missions on JTAC commands, air refueling.. if anyone has made any let me know please

[Sarge55]

Maazzoc,

 

Here's a few training missions which I use to practice. They were made by others so all credit to them. Some were made during the Beta testing but they work fine for me.

 

The crosswind ones have a vehicle blown up to create some smoke right at the airfield. It helps to give you an idea of the crosswind and to line up. You start on the runway ready to go so you don't have to do a cold start each time. I have BBall 20mph x-wind ones as well.

 

The AAR one has you start in the air right behind the tanker and it flies straight no turns. Make sure you get the radio freq from the briefing.

 

Good luck

 

Oops forgot to say check this thread you'll probably turn up a bunch more. http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=140

Aerial_Refueling_Training.miz

BBall 10mph Lt Xwind.miz

BBall 10mph Rt Xwind.miz

BBall Xwind Landings Info.txt

JTAC Training Msn.miz

Edited June 29, 2011 by Sarge55
Add more info

[Username455]

hey guys,

 

Ive been trying some landings, and have some questions..

 

Should I be looking for that donut for the entire approach? or only when getting closer to the runway? It was having me go ~110 and it was extremely hard to keep my altitude to stay on the glideslope. I actually landed in the grass before the runway haha. Am I doing it correctly?

 

When you begin the descent, is there a lot of trimming involved to counter the decreased airspeed? I find myself constantly trimming to keep my nose from dipping into the ground.

 

funny, I can land successfully but when I try and use the glideslope properly it feels awful.

 

Thought of another question:

 

is there a way that I am missing to set speed brakes to 40%? or do people just eyeball 40%?

Edited July 2, 2011 by Username455
new question