to hell with this - Aireal combat is outrageous

[ShuRugal]

Seriously, this is goddamned impossible. I can get the first Hind most of the time, but the second one never fails to get me.

 

I have three wingmen for this mission, yet somehow four blacksharks vs one hind, and the hind wins every time? i don't bloody think so. What it appears to boil down to is that i need to buy an extra $200-300 worth of hardware to be able to complete this mission, and that ain't gonna happen because i don't -have- $200-300 just sitting around, and i did you can sure as shit bet i'd have better things to spend it on than an aggravating computer game.

 

Here, maybe someone can tell me how i keep managing to get this wrong? uploaded a track of my latest arsehole-widening procedure. I nail the lead hind, turn, extend, throw the wingmen at the second hind, turn back, set shkval where label is.... and he's not there! oh, but his missiles are....

 

to hell with this "simulator"

 

hell-with-this.trk

[Slazi]

It's difficult, you just need practice.

 

You really do need TrackIR or Freetrack to get the most out of the game. A resonable stick is essential too.

 

Take a break and come back to it another time.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Ah, yes... the Other side mission... She's a bitch... 45-1 hr ingress, x2 for egress, and little fuel..

 

Here are my remarks since I was in your shoes:

1- Consult mission route. Although it allows ingress from Southeast, you have overhangs covering the entire map.

 

2- Go very slow when reaching the valley to the SAM sites..

3- DO NOT HOVER until you've recce'd (?) the site to the fullest.

4- The goddamn lag with the voice orders, the sequence of events leading to losing the high powers (SU's and other sinister shits)

5- Make sure you are zoomed in to the windshield, have the HMS on and laser on at all times as soon as reaching the village valley overlooking the thong sites...

 

 

6- Do not press on the Headon Asspect unless he's coming straight at you.

 

7- my turn.. (WIP)...

[flanker0ne]

You signed in this Forum on January 2012, maybe the 1st Jan.

In the 9th Feb (39 days at beast) you complain about this simulator, instead about your performance as a pilot, in an Air to Air environment?

You missed totally the point, the meaning of the word Practice and Training.

Let me imagine, your previuos "simulator" was Hawx right? Or maybe Ace Combat?

[jib]

You could go into the mission and try lowering the hinds AI.

Last night I was getting spanked over and over again by a pair of apaches.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Haven't looked at the track, but here are some pointers you could take into consideration:

 

- Eyes outside the cockpit! Spot the helo's before they spot you

- Get standoff distance

- When facing a pair, fire on the one (i.e. destroy it), and immediately after impact turn around and get to standoff range again, while letting the hind still keep sight on you so he'll chase you. Then, do above again.

[WildBillKelsoe]

I just flew the mission. I got tangled up in RL shit, that I crashed to the 3400 AGL mountains. Just taking a piss. Now, I decided to let the mission a bit closer to the AO, so I popped the ME and moved the 4 units on to a mountain 14 clicks away from their position. First time, I tried flying solo, got hit by a TV missile (probably theirs since I wasnt ingressing yet).

 

 

second time, I added the 4 units (3 AIs) to the flight in order to get advanced warning and bearing. now 2 of those flights shot one and crashed. The remaining AI was engaging the ****er and he got toast. I dunno if he survived or crashed as well (2nd Mi-24) but I just displayed some of the skills necessary for you to look into. Its not perfect, I wasn't able to spot them.

 

 

But I want you to fly my mission, and move at speeds between 90 and 180 (not more), into the AO. See if the recce works, and practice doing break manoeuvers.

 

Also, I want you to read this on wiki .Compare it to 2-9 (p.35) on the flight manual for BS.

 

There must be a loophole we could use. I mean we can beat those ****ers. We have more maneuvrability thanks to our co-axial. My question would be:

 

How to evade a TV guided missile??? :smartass:

 

To my surprise, I was the only ****er left in town.. :mad:

 

This is the mission, and the track.

[WildBillKelsoe]

And a third trial and the entire flight is compromised...

Lesson learned:

 

Unless you want extra attention, risk your rotors, risk your wingmen, risk the mission, I suggest you proceed exactly as the mission is designed - In and Out.

 

You already have a SEAD and CAP flight at hand. Let them take care of the Mi-24. Alternately, focus on ground targets, use the proper cover, and proceed on a time-governed fashion to egress.

 

Don't waste time fighting a machine like this. The only reason I'm perfectly convinced with my own heresay, is that I get no warning of an incoming missile (at least from perished wingmen, let alone the MWS).

 

So, we're on the same page?

 

And the shark is predominantly.. no. make that definitely a ground assault helicopter. If you had air to air missiles (aphid/etc..), we'd be going over this now. But I don't think so.

 

Good luck her lieutenant.

 

Noc_

Edited February 9, 2012 by WildBillKelsoe

[ShuRugal]

Haven't looked at the track, but here are some pointers you could take into consideration:

 

- Eyes outside the cockpit! Spot the helo's before they spot you

 

did it

 

- Get standoff distance

did it

 

- When facing a pair, fire on the one (i.e. destroy it), and immediately after impact turn around and get to standoff range again, while letting the hind still keep sight on you so he'll chase you. Then, do above again.

did it.

 

the problem isn't the first hind, i can nail him almost every time. but then the second one gets eyes on me and it's over. I down the first, i extend, i turn, and re-acquisition is where i am failing. While i am fumbling around trying to figure out how to maneuver the helicopter and get the shkval box centered around something i can't actually see because 1440x900 resolution is not sufficient for looking out the windscreen and seeing details on the shkval as well. Meanwhile the 24 knows exactly where i am, already has his targeting system locked on to me, and as soon as he closes to missile range, he fires, and i die. every time.

 

although, there was one rather.... amusing... case where my shkval kept reporting the 24s were 9.5k out right up until they opened fire with their cannon.

 

Unless you want extra attention, risk your rotors, risk your wingmen, risk the mission, I suggest you proceed exactly as the mission is designed - In and Out.

 

tried that, the 24's are between me and "in"

 

You already have a SEAD and CAP flight at hand. Let them take care of the Mi-24. Alternately, focus on ground targets, use the proper cover, and proceed on a time-governed fashion to egress.

the SEAD/CAP flights are worse than useless. in a dozen repetitions of this mission, i have yet to see them do anything other than fly in circle and say "direct hit on target!" when i get fed up waiting for them to SEAD and start shooting the SAMs myself.

 

Don't waste time fighting a machine like this.

 

I haven't a choice, the CAP flight are a bunch of blind fishmongers, and my wingmen couldn't find their own assholes in proctologist's office.

[soupyc]

Zoom may help you acquire a target that is beyond the capabilities of your monitor to display...remember, a monitors resolution is far less 'dense' pixel wise than real life 'resolution' so you cant see things from as far away in the sim. This can be an issue in A-10 as well, when you're trying to line up a gun run, and at 2nm out the tank you want is the size of a pixel. Zoom is your friend!

[ErichVon]

FRUSTRATION!

 

Seriously, this is goddamned impossible. I can get the first Hind most of the time, but the second one never fails to get me.

 

I have three wingmen for this mission, yet somehow four blacksharks vs one hind, and the hind wins every time? i don't bloody think so. What it appears to boil down to is that i need to buy an extra $200-300 worth of hardware to be able to complete this mission, and that ain't gonna happen because i don't -have- $200-300 just sitting around, and i did you can sure as shit bet i'd have better things to spend it on than an aggravating computer game.

 

Here, maybe someone can tell me how i keep managing to get this wrong? uploaded a track of my latest arsehole-widening procedure. I nail the lead hind, turn, extend, throw the wingmen at the second hind, turn back, set shkval where label is.... and he's not there! oh, but his missiles are....

 

to hell with this "simulator"

 

[ATTACH]62519[/ATTACH]

 

Here you go, try here:

 

http://www.hitechcreations.com/help.html

 

The two week trial period is free, then $15 per month.

 

Not A.I !

 

Real, thinking people.

 

You think you suck here?

 

I know guys playing this online sim for 10 years and they still suck!

 

Then return here and relax.

 

Month of December I got Ace of the Base award for level bombing sorties in Mid-War on my new Alienware machine.

 

A.I. is eventually predictable. Not so dealing with real human beings you are facing to fight with.

 

After playing Aces High online for 5 years, going back to an offline, boxed game is not fun anymore.

[WildBillKelsoe]

I downed them using fixed cannon. There is not time for target adquisition. I remember that my heart was beating like mad after downing the second one. Very instense.

 

There is a boring option. If you hide long enough the hind patrol will end and they will return to base.

 

My preferred choice.. :smartass:

[213]

"aireal"

 

speaks volumes.

 

maybe go play ace combat or something. that might be more up to your speed.

[Rotareneg]

"aireal"

 

speaks volumes.

 

maybe go play ace combat or something. that might be more up to your speed.

 

Give him a break, he just sounds frustrated.

 

Here's a track I just recorded where I shoot down the two hinds without a problem, just ignore the bit near the end where I decided my rotor blades were too long, I got a little over-enthusiastic about making a sharp turn... :D

 

Argh, should have watched the track all the way through, the recording goes out of sync and the second hind survives... they really need to fix that track recording bug. :disgust:

 

I don't use any head-tracking or fancy HOTAS, just an old MS Sidewinder FF2 stick.

Ooops.trk

Edited February 9, 2012 by Rotareneg

[Spyros]

I think I remember this mission. Isn't it one of the early missions (so it shouldn't be hard) ?

If memory serves, I engaged a Hind with the Vikhr and my wingman got the other one (I told him to engage air targets. Did you give that instruction? ).

[Rusty_M]

I must have always got lucky. I've never shot or been shot by a HIND in that mission. They seem to have a fight with my wingmen though. It could be because I tend to hover as far away from the target as possible, to turn the area into a standoff shooting gallery.

[Speed]

You don't always have to fight you know. You can always run like hell.

 

Also, don't think you have to use the default payload. Load up your inner pylons with fuel and your outer pylons with 12 vikhrs. If you fail to kill the Hinds then you can just run like hell and come back later and the Hinds will be gone.

 

The one time I played this mission single player, me and my wingmen had no trouble downing the Hinds- but the helo AI has gone through some iterations since then.

 

The last time I played this one was in multiplayer, I shot down one Hind, my human wingman shot down the other, we both fired a pair of Vikhrs at like 7km+. Easy cheesy.

 

Yes and don't forget, your Vikhrs can fly out to 8km (though their range will be impacted if they have to fly up at all). So you should be able to score a kill on a Hind even if you fire a pair of Vikhrs at 7.3ish km, even if you fire upwards slightly... that should give you some extra range to possibly have time to fire at the other Hind. Fire a pair of Vikhrs for each enemy helo. A to A mode, and head on aspect (assuming that the hinds are flying towards you, but they should be in this mission).

Edited February 9, 2012 by Speed

[Frostie]

Seriously, this is goddamned impossible.

..

to hell with this "simulator"

 

Yes this is a simulator, not a game, there is not a necessity to kill the Hind's for mission completion.

 

If your skill set or tools are not up to the required level to take on Hind's then don't do it, as Speed says avoid them, runaway, take them to your SAM zone, do anything but engage head on with a threat you're incapable of dealing with.

You can go even further and edit the mission to reduce it to one Hind or even add a MiG to blow the muthas away.

 

This is a combat simulator one that requires tactical thinking and never extending beyond your limits, instead of gaming skillz.

If it fits wear it if not move on to something that does eg. not a simulator.

[Yurgon]

Seriously, this is goddamned impossible. I can get the first Hind most of the time, but the second one never fails to get me.

 

I just watched the track. Unless playback was broken, you crashed because of some type of rotor blade clash, right?

 

You actually had the last Hind with his pants down. He'd fired all 4 missiles, missed once, and was down to the gun (but also down to just one target - you). At that point, you held all the good cards. However, you allowed him to get within 3km so he probably would have gunned you down if you hadn't crashed first.

 

One very decisive factor in the Hind winning is the Balls of Steel factor. Your #3 got off a Vikhr, the Hind was 1 or 2 seconds slow returning fire with an AT-6. Although the Vikhr is faster (IIRC), #3 broke off the attack, broke target lock, wasting his missile and aborting an almost certain kill. The Hind held the lock on the Ka-50, wasting him.

 

Just the other day, I played the same mission. My wingmen fired 2 or even 3 missiles, but within a few seconds they were all dead. I didn't analyze the playback then but assume that the same thing happened.

 

What really mystifies me is the skill-assignment in the mission. In my version of the mission (BS2), the Hinds are set to average, while the 3 Ka-50 wingmen are set to high. It would be weird if silly/suicidal turned out to be a dead on advantage for the enemy.

 

Anyways, when I played the mission again yesterday, I moved our flight back away from the target area and had my wingmen do careful reconnaissance. My #3 spotted the Hinds when they'd already checked out our valley and were returning back towards their camp. He shot'em both in the back and we happily mopped the whole thing up. Each of us had 2 or more Vikhrs left when we achieved mission success and RTB'd. This mission definitely is a tough nut to crack, but it feels very rewarding to shut the chopper down at Nalchik. Unfortunately, my flight wasn't as lucky, because #3 and #4 collided on the way back somewhere in the mountains. Instead of following my lead, they took the long way back through the valleys, and being the moronic dumbasses they are, they hugged the terrain contour, descending and then climbing again all the time. And guess who the CO blamed for their misfortune... :music_whistling:

[ShuRugal]

I just watched the track. Unless playback was broken, you crashed because of some type of rotor blade clash, right?

track must be broke, i crashed because his missile took my mast off at the tranny. while i was trying to get my shkval on him, i saw dark blur move up it, then i hear "blam" and the bird fell out of the sky.

 

 

what i need to do is get better at shifting the shkval rapidly from one hind to the other after first salvo hits. I can launch from ~8.8 and get the first one by the time they are at 7.5, which is more than enough standoff to kill the second, i just need to get the cam on him fast enough.

[leafer]

what i need to do is get better at shifting the shkval rapidly from one hind to the other after first salvo hits. I can launch from ~8.8 and get the first one by the time they are at 7.5, which is more than enough standoff to kill the second, i just need to get the cam on him fast enough.

 

That's the problem. It's hard enough manually finding an airborne target without it trying to kill you. What I do when dealing with multiple threats is kill one then dive like a sack of hammers. I lose sight of my remaining threats and it's a pain scanning for them, but that's when F10 comes in handy. Worst case scenario and I can't find them, I turn on label. Hey, the AI cheats, too.

[Madman777]

I've had a pretty successful DCS BS career while having mostly avoided all enemy helos. I've shot down maybe 10 enemy helos that I detected at a distance, and I've probably been shot down about 20 times by US Cobra's, maybe a couple times from Hinds.

 

Just turn around, get low and avoid those aircraft. It's worked for me. Their mission is usually to attack friendly armor, so once you leave the area, come back and target them when they are occupied attacking something else.

 

Fighting enemy helos is probably the most difficult thing you can do in a Blackshark, so don't worry about not being good at it..gosh I still suck at it.

[Bucic]

It was cheap and the reviews seemed mostly positive.

Just looking for something that does the job than something someone more into these types of games would buy.

First of all read this (click on the red square to read more)

In Apache vs Shark case Shark is being hunted and Apache is a hunter. It would be even worse if Apache was controlled by human (multiplayer). You have 2 men against one (crew) and 80's vs 90's in terms of sensors (just a reference).

 

Basically Vikhrs are as good as AA weapon as your locking skills (using the Shkval) are. Once you have enemy locked Vikhr will do quite well. Just keep in mind that:

• - you're screwed either way because Apache can launch Hellfires in Fire and Forget mode (?)
  
• - and you don't :surrender:
  
• - configure the weapons systems for AA engagement! (hint: target type selection, there are two AA target types)
  
• - fire Vikhrs in pairs
  
• - if you can't get a lock using Shkval and you still want to live prepare for oldschool combat using fixed cannon (high rate of fire, long burst, HE ammo)
  
• - ask yourself a question: would you spare ammo if you were facing an enemy Apache and your real life flesh would be at stake? Would you wait until he's closer than 800 meters?
  

 

Oh, and two more things:

• if you're in a helo vs helo situation either you or mission creator did something wrong
  
• if you needed any of my advices here then it means that for you the only proper behavior in a helo vs helo situation is (and will be for some time) to RUN! :fear:
  

 

Second - I don't know if anyone has told you this but helicopters are not meant for air 2 air engagements. Especially those with single crew, no air 2 air missiles and a cannon with very limited movement like e.g. ... Ka-50.

I can't help you further neither. Please post a track next time to increase your chances. Also I think you should continue the subject in the dedicated topic. I'll drop a line or two there if I have something.

 

 

Of course

 

AIR TO AIR HELICOPTER COMBAT

http://www.mediafire.com/?a6c39qvv8wophsd

 

ATTACK HELICOPTER OPERATIONS

http://www.mediafire.com/?fqwovqvz09qi716

 

Keep in mind that the main RL policy IRL is to stay alive so if your A2A helo skills are piss poor your policy should be to avoid enemy helicopters regardless of what the most fancy of RL field manuals says.

[159th_Viper]

Second - I don't know if anyone has told you this but helicopters are not meant for air 2 air engagements. Especially those with single crew, no air 2 air missiles and a cannon with very limited movement like e.g. ... Ka-50.

 

Quite correct.

 

However, if you really have to, then it's often a matter of 'Whoever see's the other first will Succeed'. In that mission you have ample warning of bad guys, but that's besides the point: You have made it easy for yourself and have labels on.

 

In the circumstances you should already be tracking the two Hinds from 12 km's distant. At this stage you want to be in a hover, preferably at 50-100m AGL so they are easy to spot against the skyline and you are hidden from their vantage point at 300+m AGL - you are a lot more difficult to spot hidden against the ground-clutter. Your WCS is at this stage also set up so that all you are doing is hovering over the track/launch buttons.

 

When the hinds are approx 8 clicks out, lock and track one. At closure of 8km or thereabouts, launch your first volley. Time it so that the first Hind gets your Vikhrs in his teeth at approx 7km.

 

1 Down.

 

You then have time enough to track and dispense the second long before he is within weapons-range. In case he catches you, the Shturms are easily evaded and your cannon outranges his so he's always in trouble. If you're still uncomfortable with the engagement then you should have turned tail and ran after you splashed the first Hind.

[WildBillKelsoe]

In the circumstances you should already be tracking the two Hinds from 12 km's distant. At this stage you want to be in a hover, preferably at 50-100m AGL so they are easy to spot against the skyline and you are hidden from their vantage point at 300+m AGL - you are a lot more difficult to spot hidden against the ground-clutter.

 

Don't get me started...