Reworked Cockpit Views with proper Neck

[PeterP]

Hello Peter P,

Have you got the version of your neck mod for DCS ver1.2.4? -=Shrek=- sqn has rolled back to v1.2.4 for squadron flying because of server stability issues with 1.2.5/6.

 

 

Reworked_Cockpit_Views_with_proper_Neck_plus_-_for_DCS_World_1.2.4_RC_2.21b.rar

[MTFDarkEagle]

Thanks Peter! ;)

[OGREMAN]

Many thanks Peter P, you are hereby formally awarded DUTY HERO status in shrek sqn for the rest of this week S! :-))

[Rivvern]

I would also like to thank PeterP. Great job with your mods and "View/multimonitor" related posts! Much helpful.

 

You're making the life easier for all of us multimonitor noobs around here. . ;)

[Hunden Ynk]

Thanks a lot! I'm such a pleb that I didn't mind the default settings, but something about this feels right, and I'm not risking to summon Max von Sydow when doing the Ka-50 anymore.

[Hunden Ynk]

Two posts in a row, very embarrassing. ;) I'm just wondering if there's a particular reason for CameraTerrainRestriction to be set to false on line 17 in server.lua. Under ground is pretty psychedelic...

[PeterP]

No , no particular reason - I made some tests and forgot to change it again before up-loading.

 

It's set back to false in the new version again.

 

 

@ all

 

New version is available:

 

V1.2 includes also new view-limits for the Mi-8MTV2 Beta and a Hot-fix:

 

 

Mi-8MTV2 Beta 1.2.6 HeadMovment Hot-Fix

 

After you jumped in the Mi-8TV2 technician seat the view-limits will be off

and you cant lean any more to the left/right - the included mainpanel_init.lua will fix it.

 

 

 

Copy the DCS World folder into the your folder of your DCS Installation and overwrite.

 

 

Example target path:

H:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics

 

 

Check after each update if a fix is still needed and/or if a new fix is needed

because other things changed too in the mainpanel_init.lua

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=96116

Edited September 23, 2013 by PeterP

[Hunden Ynk]

Thanks, just wanted to be sure I didn't break anything by changing that. My first thought of that inverted ocean-land-thingy, GPU meltdown.

[zaelu]

Thanks Peter for that fix!!!

 

Regarding this fix have you observed that Huey has something of a similar problem?

When set limits for 6DoF that prevent you from leaning forward through the pilot gunsight, as soon as you switch to Co-pilot that limit is removed and when you switch back to the pilot you are again leaning through the pilot gunsight as in default limits.

 

Also in your server.lua there is this:

 

 

if t then

for i,o in pairs(t) do

res = o

end

end

return res

end

"

 

Do you somehow know what it means?

[PeterP]

Thanks Peter for that fix!!!

 

Regarding this fix have you observed that Huey has something of a similar problem?

When set limits for 6DoF that prevent you from leaning forward through the pilot gunsight, as soon as you switch to Co-pilot that limit is removed and when you switch back to the pilot you are again leaning through the pilot gunsight as in default limits.

 

The limits only prevent you to go through this invisible 'wall' - but they can't force you to go back.

 

Once you are outside the limits while 'jumping' back - the whole logic of the limits gets broken as you are inside a undefined space in this particular seat position.

 

Only way to prevent this is to give all seats the same limits. So you don't run into this limitation(flaw) of the view-system.

(like It is done by default in the Huey/Hip)

 

 

 

Also in your server.lua there is this:

 

 

if t then

for i,o in pairs(t) do

res = o

end

end

return res

end

"

 

Do you somehow know what it means?

 

Yes , I know.

 

This is a part of the function that tells which values are used as 'default' (res) whenever a seat-position is named =default_fighter_player .

And looks out if there are differences that should be used instead of the 'default' ones (t).

 

 

function default_fighter_player(t)
   local res = { 
       CameraViewAngleLimits  = GlobalCameraViewAngleLimits,
       CameraAngleRestriction = {false,130.00,0.90},
       EyePoint               = GlobalEyePoint,
       Allow360rotation       = false,
       CameraAngleLimits      = GlobalCameraAngleLimits,
       ShoulderSize           = GlobalShoulderSize, 
   }
   if t then 
       for i,o in pairs(t) do
           res[i] = o
       end
   end
   return res
end

 

 

- it simply is just a helper-function that prevents retyping the same stuff on and on again .

 

If you want to learn what the function is doing in detail - start here:

http://www.lua.org/docs.html

Edited September 23, 2013 by PeterP

[zaelu]

Thanks for your answer!!

 

So basically if I want to type manually the settings for each plane and pilot position I should remove that part. :thumbup:

[PeterP]

No, don't remove this part (that you have quoted in post 389). - if you remove this function it will brake all cockpits that haven't explicitly defined all values.

 

Just type in/add your own values you want to use or remove the default_fighter_player from the cockpit settings of a particular cockpit.

 

 

Example for the Ka-50 view limits:

 

My settings :

 

ViewSettings["Ka-50"] = {
   Cockpit = {
   [1] = default_fighter_player({    
       CockpitLocalPoint        = {3.188,0.39,0},
       limits_6DOF              = {x      = {-0.18,0.32},
                                   y      = {-0.18,0.12},
                                   z      = {-0.24,0.24},
                                   roll = 90}}),

the CockpitLocalPoint and limits_6DOF are added , and everything else will be used as it is defined in the default_fighter_player settings.

These are:

        CameraViewAngleLimits  = GlobalCameraViewAngleLimits,
       CameraAngleRestriction = {false,130.00,0.90},
       EyePoint               = GlobalEyePoint,
       Allow360rotation       = false,
       CameraAngleLimits      = GlobalCameraAngleLimits,
       ShoulderSize            = GlobalShoulderSize, 

So lets say you want to use instead the 'default' CameraAngleRestriction your own setting in the Ka-50 you have to add them like this:

 

 

ViewSettings["Ka-50"] = {
   Cockpit = {
   [1] = default_fighter_player({ 
       CameraAngleRestriction   = {false,XXX,XXX}, -- < put in your own values
       CockpitLocalPoint        = {3.188,0.39,0},
       limits_6DOF              = {x      = {-0.18,0.32},
                                   y      = {-0.18,0.12},
                                   z      = {-0.24,0.24},
                                   roll = 90}}),

and when you don't want to carry over a single setting from the default_fighter_player you can also leave out this function totally , but than you have to make sure that nothing is missing . If a value is missing it will use 0 for all values in this missing definition.

So you can basically leave out the ShoulderSize in following example if you don't want to use it in the Ka-50 as the setting will be also 0 for this function :

ViewSettings["Ka-50"] = {
   Cockpit = {
   [1] = {
       CockpitLocalPoint      = {3.188000,0.390000,0.000000},
       CameraViewAngleLimits  = {20.000000,120.000000},
       CameraAngleRestriction = {false,60.000000,0.400000},
       CameraAngleLimits      = {140.000000,-65.000000,90.000000},
       EyePoint               = {0.090000,0.000000,0.000000},
       limits_6DOF            = {x = {-0.020000,0.350000},y ={-0.150000,0.165000},z = {-0.170000,0.170000},roll = 90.000000},
       ShoulderSize           = 0, -- or  0.15 - 0.20  
   },

Ideally only the CockpitLocalPoint and limits_6DOF should be different in each cockpit , as this defining the boundaries of a cockpit .

All other values should be the same in all cockpits (default_fighter_player) - as this defining the physiognomy of a (strapped in) pilot,

and this is normally not changed by the cockpit-type that is around him.

 

I hope this clears some 'mysteries'.

And again - don't simply remove functions that are still in use for other cockpits that you don't want to edit.

Edited September 23, 2013 by PeterP

[zaelu]

Thanks Peter for explanations. But I have "old style" server.lua with all planes (including ones moded) defined one by one in all parameters.

 

I like it this way cause all sections look the same (visually) and by now I know each line what it does in each plane and is not much fuss to edit them.

 

I agree it could be easier to use server.lua when you know those predefined default values what they mean but when they intercalate all over the place with modifications they create a mess that is difficult to understand quickly.

It just lacks mind ergonomic for me :) . All these x y z values defined at top of the file then used in the predefined section and finally modified in each cockpit.... sorry... for me is just a mess :D .

 

And finally I simply disagree with that concept of "predefined default fighter player" All cockpits are different in real life. Some are more cramped some are more spacious, the difference sometimes is huge (A10 vs Mi-8 ). Seats are different, Some are russian some are american, some are fighter seats some are luxurious helicopter seats (like Mi-8 ). All these differences and only one monitor size. Something has to give... default FOV is one of them. Then are the limitations of HUDs etc.

Because of this also the 6DoF limits can't be the same. No matter the seatbelts... in Mi-8 you move different than in A10 and also different in a supersonic fighter.

 

This is why I have each cockpit tailored individually. I like it this way. I like that we have this option.

 

But if you like this why with these "abbreviations" as ED made them lately... is OK. Is another good choice.

 

I thank you again for your explanations and for your continuous work on your mods!

Edited September 24, 2013 by zaelu

[PeterP]

And finally I simply disagree with that concept of "predefined default fighter player" All cockpits are different in real life. Some are more cramped some are more spacious, the difference sometimes is huge (A10 vs Mi-8 ). Seats are different, Some are russian some are american, some are fighter seats some are luxurious helicopter seats (like Mi-8 ). All these differences and only one monitor size. Something has to give... default FOV is one of them. Then are the limitations of HUDs etc.

Because of this also the 6DoF limits can't be the same. No matter the seatbelts... in Mi-8 you move different than in A10 and also different in a supersonic fighter.

 

 

No need to disagree on something when we both say basically the same thing.

But it seems that you have a false understanding what the default_fighter_player is responsible for.

It's looking up/down/right/left and side movement when beyond horizontal 90°.

This has nothing to do with the dimensions of the seat and/or the cockpit. And there is no plane in DCS that is limiting the ability to turn your head.

The the default_fighter_player settings are a representation of the physiognomy of a human.

 

The settings to simulate the body movement while strapped in the seat and/or the boundaries of the cockpit are controlled via the limits_6DOF.

And these are different in each cockpit.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Here is a explanation for each important setting in the sever.lua and what it does:

 

default_fighter_player settings:

 

CameraViewAngleLimits = {20,160} <- degrees

MIN/Max FOV ( Since 1.2.6 you can't get below 20°)

 

CameraAngleRestriction = {false,130.00,0.90} <- degrees

ancient setting for FC2 that should prevent to be able to see untextured/not fully modelled parts of the cockpit - it is set to 'false' in true 6DOF cockpits

 

EyePoint = {0.16, 0.1, 0.0} <-meters

Position of the Camera(eye)relative to its turning point.

Allow360rotation = false,

Prevents to turn your head round and round (only important when using the keyboard/mouse for view input)

 

CameraAngleLimits = {190,-75,115} <- degrees

Maximum angel to turn head/eye to the back,down and up

 

ShoulderSize = 0.15 <-meters

Moves the body/neck lateral incremental up to 15cm to the left/right when looking to the back more more than 90°

Cockpit specific settings:

CockpitLocalPoint = {3.188000,0.390000,0.000000} <-meters

XYZ position of the cockpit relative to the model of the plane

 

limits_6DOF = {x = {-0.020000,0.350000},y ={-0.150000,0.165000},z = {-0.170000,0.170000},roll = 90.000000} <-meters

This sets the boundaries of the movement for the neck/eye inside the cockpit.

Can be used to simulate a strapped-in position and/or prevents the camera to go trough the cockpit-frame.

Edited September 24, 2013 by PeterP

[zaelu]

I agree with you, but turning the head around (CameraAngleLimits) is different imho from cockpit to cockpit. For example turning in Su25A is different from turning in F15 horizontally and also from P51 to UH1H vertically.

Also zoom settings (CameraViewAngleLimits) differs for me in almost each cockpit because the max FOV is set for me as the default FOV defined in SnapViews.lua (I have zoom axis on a slider and I want zoom out to be default zoom 95-105 not a 160 degrees that creates that awful fisheye effect). And this max zoom being the same always as default zoom from SnapViews.lua varies in Server.lua accordingly.

 

This default FOV from SnapViews.lua varies for me for reasons I explained in previous post... different planes cockpits etc.

 

So you see... not much reasons for me to have a predefined "default fighter player" when all values varies for each plane so much.

[Fifi]

Thanks so much for this mod!

Was at first sceptical, but after try and tests, have to say it's again a must have one :thumbup:

Great work.

[chardly38]

If I have missed this forgive me. For the Mi-8 mainpanel_init.lua what line is it to edit my zoom. The defalt zoom for me goes out to far. I would like to reduce it. Is this the line

cockpit_local_point = {3.916, -0.11 , 0.0}

[PeterP]

No need to change anything in the Mi-8 mainpanel_init.lua !

And you won't need the "Mi-8MTV2 Beta 1.2.6.18651 HeadMovment Hot-Fix.rar" anymore since the latest update.

Belsimeteck fixed it by them self.

 

Zoom (FOV)is controlled in the server.lua ,that comes with this mod, bythe

local GlobalCameraViewAngleLimits = {20,160} -- {min horiz. FOV in °, max horiz. FOV in °} <- aka Zoom

( Since 1.2.6 you can't get below 20°)

 

...a newly written explanation for all values that can be controlled by the enduser can be found in post #394 (just three posts up).

Edited October 29, 2013 by PeterP

[BiBa]

Grüß Dich Peter,

 

This great thread of yours has become so enlarged to the extent of a jungle where I got lost... May be the answer to my following question lies somewhere here in between, so excuse me if I ask for the following:

 

I've solved the Pilot's head positioning in the Cockpit only. I like my head positioning totally sticking back as if it's under the acceleration of 5G, and off course, and a little bit to the top. So I think you know to which extent the Hud would be enlarged out of it's frame.

 

What I'm looking for is the A-10C lua File & path with its formula that deals only with the Hud's size (width & length) . I assume with that head position, the Hud's size must be reduced to 30%.

 

Mit vielem Dank im Voraus

MfG

Edited November 1, 2013 by Biba

[PeterP]

This frequently asked question is answered in post #1 in the quote at the bottom.

 

I took the time to mark the important part in red for you:

 

 

For all that are confused why the " edges of the HUD are getting cut off.":

 

Please make your self familiar how a real collimated HUD works

and/or just follow the links in post#1 - it's been discussed about a dozen times in this thread...or just google it... - and you will soon realizes that this absulute normal and a consequence when you have your (virtual) eyes not turning around them self any-more.

 

Here is a little test you can do your own and will maybe serve you as 'eye-opener' to get a idea why the things are like they are when you are not turning your eyes around themselves :

 

 

 

Form a square with both hands in a arm's-length in front of your head and keep this 'window' static.

Now observe what's happening with things you can see in a distance inside this square when you move your head from left to right .

Now combine this 'newly learned' with the knowledge that a collimated HUD is focused to 'infinity'.

 

 

Read also here for more info:

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1588647&postcount=17

and even more info how a HUD works

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1826425&postcount=317

 

 

It's also not possible to 'only' smaller the HUD - it has a fixed size bound to a certain FOV it is covering and the HUD is carefully calibrated to the whole cockpit-frame/fuselage. And there is only a small narrow band in which the HUD projection can be fully seen. Changing a parameter of it will de-calibrate it and make your aiming reticles useless and way-points will not be placed where they are.

You will have to move your head towards the HUD to 'smaller' it.

 

 

I'm sorry for this 'annoyance' ... welcome to reality!

 

...So make your self familiar how to save a new default cockpit view (...it's basically done in two steps and within seconds...) - a instruction is posted where you downloaded this mod - sorry - I can't set it up for you - you have to do it your own, as what is usable on a 16:9 display can be awful at a triple head setup and it also highly depends on the used FOV.

(BTW: This has been also discussed about a dozen times in this thread)

 

 

 

About : 'the constraints keep you from creating a perfectly top down view over the side consoles'

 

This mod uses reduced cockpit movement limits that prevents you to put your virtual Eyes at impossible places - like directly above you knees or between the HUD frame.

This affects also the ability to make a perfectly Top-down snap-view of certain cockpit elements.

BTW - a real pilot will also not have the ability to view this device in such an angle as long he respects the safety regulations and keeps sitting in the seat while flying -instead of 'wandering-around' in the cockpit or even braking his neck and/or pulling out his eyes ...

 

 

 

______________

 

All above 'restrictions' are made with realism in mind.

If this is something you are not looking for - please don't use this mod and stay with the defaults.

Because there is no way to combine the 'conveniences' of the Default view with the restrictions of this more realistic view setting.

 

 

...see also here for reverence : #22

Edited November 1, 2013 by PeterP

[BiBa]

This frequently asked question is answered in post #1 in the quote at the bottom...

It took me a few minutes reading in your Link to be aware of how naive I was to think the Hud could be also easily adjusted, especially with the good knowledge I have on Perspective. I thought it was enough to center the AI nose line and forgot how many things in an AI are also dependable of the Head position and distance to the Hud; I didn't think further than my nose!

 

Any FOV with objects further than one mile will keep consistently all its properties' measurements and symbologies uniformly to the eye of the beholder, let alone any type of head movement in a 100cm radius. Thus the movement of the Head in any direction has no volume impact on them, however only on the Hud framed content that is not further than an arm length. This Hud is like a 2cm hole on a DIN A3 paper sheet holding it in front of your face and trying to watch a movie on a 10m screen in the cinema! To move the sheet away to just the length of your hand will make a huge difference of how much left is visualized from that big screen!

 

So I was curious to see how many A-10C instruments are dependable of this phenomena and I picked as much as possible (I'm sure there is more) to list them here for you:

 

01. Flight Path Ladder

02. Total Velocity Vector (TVV)

03. Depressible Pipper.

04. Target Designation Cue (TDC).

05. Gun Bore Line (GBL) Cross.

06. CCIP Gun Reticle.

07. Bullets at Target Altitude (BATA) Circle.

08. CCIP Bomb Reticle.

09. Rocket CCIP Reticle

10. Maverick Reticle

11. Firing Evaluation Display System (FEDS).

12. Air Mass Impact Line (AMIL).

13. Funnel Gunsight.

14. AIM-9 Seeker Reticle

 

But then this weird question just popped up in my head, on why didn't ever occur to the screen architects to split the Hud in two categories: the active symbology listed above in a center screen and the static symbologies cited in the following list, that could be dealt with in a 2 cm frame on the edge as an extra undependable Hud:

 

01. Heading Tape / Scratchpad

02. Desired Magnetic Heading

03. Airspeed.

04. Barometric Altitude.

05. Flight Path Angle.

06. G-Meter.

07. Pave-Penny Cue Index.

08. Anchor Point Display

09. Destination Index (Tadpole).

10. Radar Altitude.

11. Steerpoint Number and ID.

12. Time to Go (TTG) and Time on Target Delta (TOT).

13. Current Time / HACK.

14. Required Airspeed.

15. DTSAS Mode and FOM Message.

 

Remains of course a programming of this extra screen for a stereo visualisation for both eyes, compatible with the eye focused on the distance objects on the center Hud-screen.

 

Peter, I know you are a good programmer, maybe you can work on the design of a prototype with its programming and register it as patent. I'm sure "die Bundeswehr" will pay you well for it. I'll be happy with a 20% interest for this idea :thumbup:

Edited November 2, 2013 by Biba

[71st_Mastiff]

Peter, Thank you very much, this new revision is awesome, I actually feel I'm surround inside the cockpit of the SU25T.

 

Thank you!!

 

:thumbup:

[chardly38]

Thanks PeterP. Some time it takes my 50 reading before I get these things.

To me the MI8 zooms out way to far.

[PeterP]

Thanks PeterP. Some time it takes my 50 reading before I get these things.

To me the MI8 zooms out way to far.

...so please change your default FOV to your liking:

 

 

 

2.

Go into DCS World>>Options>>Misc. > Check "Enable User Snap-View Saving" and use attached "All planes-modules-test 1.2.5.miz" to check the views in each module/cockpit and save a new default cockpit view as required.

 

And if you have not already your own SnapViews.lua:

Copy the SnapViews.lua into C:\Users\>YOUR USERNAME<\Saved Games\DCS\Config\View\...

 

You will find the needed key commands how to save a new default cockpit view here:

 

 

(Yes - I know how hard it is for some of you to look it up your own in the options ...)

Disable/Pause your Track-IR/Head-tracker while doing it !

 

"Num/ - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Back

"Num5" Cockpit Camera Move Center

"Num2 - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Down

"Num* - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Forward

"Num8 - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Up

"Num8" Turn Cockpit Camera Up

"Num2" Turn Cockpit Camera Down

"Num/" FOV- aka Zoom-in

"Num*" FOV+ aka Zoom-out

"NumEnter" Default FOV aka Zoom

 

Once you are satisfied , after using above key-commands,

just use following key-command to save this view as default:

 

"RAlt+Num0" Save current Cockpit view as default for this vehicle

 

 

 

Another instruction:

 

 

What you need to do to get to your wished/old view :

(BTW - this is also explained in the first post - maybe not as detailed like what follows - but the info is there ...)

 

 

1. Go into DCS World>>Options>>Misc. > Check "Enable User Snap-View Saving"

 

2. load a mission.

 

3 . disable/pause your trackir

 

4. hit once "NumEnter" Default FOV aka Zoom

and

"Num5" Cockpit Camera Move Center

 

5.now use"Num/ - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Back until the HUD fills the space to your liking.

 

6. Fine adjust it with

"Num2 - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Down

"Num8 - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Up

"Num* - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Forward

"Num8" Turn Cockpit Camera Up

"Num2" Turn Cockpit Camera Down

"Num/" FOV- aka Zoom-in

"Num*" FOV+ aka Zoom-out

 

7.Once you are satisfied - hit

"RAlt+Num0" to Save current Cockpit view as default for this vehicle.

 

8.enable your TrackIr again.

[javelina1]

thank you PeterP, awesome mod!!! my first attempt at a mod, (I'm a newbie to DCS, and now learning to fly the SU-25T)