It's a Lot of Work!

[Fuzz]

.... flying a chopper! I have a new found respect for those who do. Nothing like flying a fixed wing!

 

Any tips from those who can do it well?

[Chazz_BMF]

Buy your feet a good dinner and a massage, they will forgive you in the end. Ohh also learning the trim and autopilot systems is a good idea :D

[JG14_Smil]

Don't fight the trimmer. Use RCTL ENTER for control indicator.

 

Collective brake/altitude reset is a must for proper altitude trimmer use.

[Dejjvid]

Or you can toggle ALT HOLD if you don't wanna map collective brake.

[104th_Cobra]

Map all Autopilot, Flight Director, Altitude Hover and Trimmer/Trimmer reset (can be a combination with some modifier key), to the flighstick.

Train how to take off and hover. Again, again, again... and again, until you feel comfortable. Then train how to use the trimmer and autopilot in a linear flight, use even the Altitude Hold autopilot (change to radar mode). After that you can train to fly with Flight Director.

[HugePanic]

Install the "no rudder trim" mod!!!

[seikdel]

I actually find the rudder trim to be quite useful, especially when I have the controls indicator up.

 

Use the central position trimmer mode.

Hold down the trimmer button, maneuver the cyclic until she's in a stable attitude, release the trimmer button, center the stick. When you want to change her attitude again, repeat.

 

Once you're proficient in flying with the trimmer, start playing around with the autopilot channels. Disable the heading channel if you want to have fun doing low-speed aerobatics =)

 

Finally, hop online and find someone who's willing to teach you. Join a squadron and take advantage of their tutelage. You learn fastest when you're picking things up from a real person.

[soupyc]

Us folks over at http://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit are doing a Ka-50 Tuesday Night Noob night tonight! Come check us out!

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/18aot6/wodka_deathtrap_ka50_tuesday_night_noob_feb_12/

[TheKhann]

Is the collective break really needed given that we use throttle sticks for the collective ? I mean, when i let go of my throttle it is like engaging the collective break as it wont move anywhere, or am i missing something ?

[PeterP]

So here comes my "standard Ka-50 newbie reply" :

 

 

First download Bigfoots interactive training missions

>>> KA-50 Black Shark 2 Training missions

 

 

 

Read also besides the manual this:

DCS: Black Shark...

Technical, Simplified

-Coaxial Rotor Aerodynamics

-Trimming the Ka-50 Black Shark <<<!!!! very important to understand this fully!

-Part 1 - Autopilot <<<this too!

-Part 2 - Autopilot

 

and when you are confident about your cyclic-trim,

you want to read about your rotor-pitch trim (aka collective brake):

Is it even possible to maintain speed and/or altitude?

And when you still have time , read this too:

A Stick and Rudder Man's Guide

to DCS: Black Shark

 

Here is a useful tweak if you using real rudders*:

How to unchain the rudder from trim - solution

 

Things you want to have some day too:

 

KA-50 collective: another picture-tale

 

Two MS FFB2 with Cougar Grip

 

Welcome aboard!

*and if you use a FFB stick or not the "Central Position Trimmer Mode"

Edited February 12, 2013 by PeterP

[Yurgon]

Is the collective break really needed given that we use throttle sticks for the collective ? I mean, when i let go of my throttle it is like engaging the collective break as it wont move anywhere, or am i missing something ?

 

AFAIK the collective brake in the real aircraft has two functions:

1) Hold the collective stick in place

2) Signal the AP what altitude to hold

 

Obviously, we don't need the first function when using keyboard or a throttle as collective. But the second one is in fact used in the sim.

[Fuzz]

Wow. Thanks everyone!! Great talking/starting points! I appreciate the input!

[TheKhann]

2) Signal the AP what altitude to hold

 

Thanks for the info. I do use that function by manually engaging the proper AP channel.

[IonicRipper]

I think the most important thing of all: Practice, practice, practice. You might get to a point where you get frustrated with the game and don't feel like playing anymore but if you keep at it and keep trying, it all starts to make sense eventually.

 

I have ~12 hours flight time on the Shark so far and its just starting to make sense to me.

 

Remember, it's not a game, its a hobby, don't give up!

[Blaze]

Ka-50 is a cake-walk compared to what flying the Huey will be like.

[seikdel]

Thanks for the info. I do use that function by manually engaging the proper AP channel.

 

You've got it =)

Think of the collective brake as a trim button for altitude only. The way I use it: hold the collective brake in, adjust altitude to what I want, and then release the collective brake.

 

Speaking of altitude hold, don't forget about the barometric/radar switch down on the autopilot panel (it's the left switch). That'll determine whether you hold based off the barometric altitude or your actual AGL.

I've never found out what the middle position for the switch does. I think it holds radar altitude when the radar altimeter is active and barometric otherwise, but I could be wrong.

[EagleEye]

Ka-50 is a cake-walk compared to what flying the Huey will be like.

Stop teasing us.:ranting: I want that chopper soon!:)

[Suchacz]

Ka-50 is a cake-walk compared to what flying the Huey will be like.

I hope so! I'm looking forward to some challenge. I would be disapointed, if I will master it after two hours flying around :thumbup:

[Bushmanni]

If you want to be really effective at combat you need to be able to multitask. Multitasking is all about switching between tasks efficiently and quickly and focusing on the most relevant tasks for the situation. This will happen when you can use all the important weapon, flight and communications systems without thinking and are able to get the information from instruments with a quick glance. This will require lots of playing and also some training. At first it will make you stressed out and mentally tired quickly but after some time it will get easier. After a year or two you will be doing things in the chopper you thought impossible.

 

Other thing very important with Ka-50 is to learn to spot enemy and especially missile launches. This requires training and a proper mind set. While you can learn to fly and use the chopper after some time without really focusing on it that won't happen with spotting. Set yourself a custom mission with some not so deadly targets and at first don't even try to make them hidden. Try to see how fast you can find them and then move them with mission editor a bit and search for them again. When this gets too easy try to put them farther away and in more cluttered environments and do it again. When you can always spot an enemy vehicle within 8-10km range when looking their way you can consider not needing practice anymore. Also experiment with different kinds of visual search patterns and how to use eyes and Shkval together to scan the environment.

[Bushmanni]

I forgot to mention one important thing about getting good at multitasking. You need to be proficient with the individual tasks at first before practicing putting them together. If you try to practice too many things at the same time you are not focusing intently on any of the tasks and you will not learn them effectively. Focused attention is paramount for effective and quick learning.

[JHzlwd]

.... flying a chopper! I have a new found respect for those who do. Nothing like flying a fixed wing!

 

Any tips from those who can do it well?

 

It took me months to become really good. Now I can do anything - "Funnel" maneuvers, land gently as a leaf, sneak around amongst buildings at 2 meters altitude - the works. This is not bragging, just a fact and to assure you it can be done.

 

It is a matter of practice, practice, practice. Apart from that general advice, the following are from the Ka-50 page I am preparing on my web site (not yet ready for posting):

 

01 - Learn to hover without using Auto-Hover. Manual hover forces you to learn a lot of other basic skills useful elsewhere. I never use Auto-Hover anymore.

 

02 - Somewhat counter-intuitively (to me anyway) is you need to work more at mastering fine control of the Collective than the Cyclic. Keep an eye on rate of ascent/descent during a complex maneuver and make fine adjustments to the Collective to maintain a desired altitude rather than tipping the nose up or down with the Cyclic (just one example).

 

03 - Trim often - whenever the helicopter is in desired configuration. I prefer the "Center Mode OFF" option. Hold Trim down, adjust the aircraft attitude with the Cyclic, release Trim and immediately let the Cyclic center itself before doing anything else. The trimmer is tricky but that style of deployment works perfectly for me.

 

04 - Anticipate. For example, gradually begin turning before you get to the point where you really want to turn. It takes time for the aircraft to respond owing to its mass. Similarly, begin gently easing out of a maneuver such as a turn before you want it completed. Do everything gradually, starting out very slowly then progressing to a more aggressive control input and, finally, finishing with a gradually slowing action. Over-reaction is your greatest enemy.

 

05 - Monitor rate of ascent/descent constantly. I find the round gauge below the HUD easier to read than the HUD display, especially during combat maneuvers.

 

06 - Landings are very difficult at first. Approach by burning off altitude primarily with Collective while pulling back on the Cyclic to reduce speed. Be sure to maintain some forward speed or that weak Collective input will drop you into the vortex. Maintain some forward speed and a slightly nose-up attitude just before contact, pulling back on the Collective to reduce rate of descent. Make numerous fine Collective adjustments. Practice with a simple mission where all you do is "touch and go" on the runway. Discipline yourself to pick a precise landing spot at a distance and then land exactly there. A specific FARP landing pad is a good objective.

 

07 - If you do get caught in the vortex you are done for at low altitude. Otherwise, increase the Collective and push the nose down with the Cyclic until you recover control. That's about all you can do. You get caught in the vortex by descending too quickly with low Collective input and too low forward speed.

 

08 - If you have used Auto-Hover, it turns on Altitude Hold in the auto pilot section. When disengaging Auto-Hover, you must manually turn off Altitude Hold. If you don't you will experience control problems.

 

09 - Similarly, if you have used the SKVAl to designate a target and are using Auto-Turn, this causes the helicopter to automatically face where you last pegged the designator. If you have not reset the targeting system or turned off AUTO-TURN after completing your engagement, the helicopter will fight your control settings as you fly away.

 

10 - Finally, a trick from the psychologists. In learning any complex task you will come to a "learning plateau" once in awhile where you will practice for a long time and not improve. Take a long break like a couple of weeks. When you return you will find your brain has been reviewing the process behind the scenes and you will be miraculously improved.

 

11 - Make sure you have helpful Axis Control curves for your Flight Control System. I like curves shaped like a flattened "S" rotated 90 degrees clockwise. This gives a fairly flat slope around center, getting steep at the extremes. This helps avoid over-reaction.

[mmaruda]

I'll fully support what was written by JHzlwd. However, can't help but add my 5 cents to the mix.

 

First of all: many poelpe seem to have difficulty in trimming. This has been discussed time and again, with some people claiming that the trimmer is broken, tries to kill you etc. Bullshit! The trimmer is your best friend, you only need to understand it. Here is the basic thing, make your curves extreme. You can have hall sensors and whatnot in your stick, but that is not enough. I have mine at 30. What you do is make small and really delicate inputs and TRIM. You will not be able to perform any rapid manoeuvres, but you will avoid the bump. Rudder pedals are a must here, if you do not have them, you will suffer (sim-life is not a beech, it's the other B word). Obviously you can use the hold, move, release trim method - it's cute, but it's wrong! This will mess up your landings and any sort of precision manoeuvres. Remember to press the T button only when you are stable (that is when the pedals come in). If you need some fast manoeuvring done, use the flight director - that is what it's for. Also, collective trim/hold/whatever - there is a button there that helps keep the collective in place. With our HOTAS sets it seems useless as the throttle stays in place, but the button has one major feature - it tells the AP to hold altitude. Real pilots use it, you should to. Remember to set you AP to radar alt when flying low.

 

Once you get around flying properly, you can think about killing stuff. Always use auto turn to target, help yourself with rudder if it's not enough. Engage at a distance, avoid getting in range of AAA and fly calmly. A basic Shark mission is this: take off, fly waypoints, get into the target area, hover, kill people, RTB. If you find it hard to spot targets, use your wingmen to do the dirty work. Kill SAMs and AAA first, avoid infantry (MANPADS are a death sentence), use VIKHR against tanks and AAA, rockets and guns are for soft stuff. Two last tips are: do NOT attack tanks with guns while at slow speed or hover at close range (they will cannon you, I know, WTF?) and in case of hard wind, launch VIKHRs up-wind (ABRIS has the wind info). Once done, RTB and land safely where you need. Try to land up wind and be gentle. Remember to trim and do not use the hold-release method. It will take long, but better slow than dead.

 

A note on the flight director - this is the mode, when the autopilot does not hold course. Use it when you need to get out of a mess fast and for close to ground flying (canyon runs etc.).

 

In general, once you get the hand of things, Black Shark is probably the most relaxing combat study-sim to fly. You take off, fly where you need, hover, blow shit up and RTB. All you need to do is be smart and don't play the hero. I fly a lot of A-10 lately and RoF too, seriously, the Shark is like a comfy couch with scotch and a TV remote. ;)

[JHzlwd]

mmaruda,

 

Thanks for that response. It's appreciated and I value your input. I especially agree Trim is not broken although stick with the way I use it, which works great for me. There may be an element of "art" at work. Trim is a subtle control and you have to work at mastering it. It allows for more than one way of usage IMO.

 

I agree with everything else including your assessment of BS in general. Once you master this it is very comfy indeed. It seems like part of you. Too Good.

[mmaruda]

Probably I am nowhere near mastering stuff in Black Shark. As for trim, everyone flies they way they are good with, though the "proper way", while requiring more effort (you always get tempted to hold-release when it's just easier), proves more beneficial for me in the long run. The problem is, the AP gets errors when you do stuff wrong and it's harder to control the chopper after a few of those. Still, I vote Black Shark as the easiest and most accessible study sim ever made, even laid back when you get the hang of things. Basically, from my perspective, ED did one thing in a spectacular way - they made a good entry level study sim. I would have gone nowhere near cockpit clicking, if it wasn't for the Shark. The avionics can be learned in a day, flying can be learned in a week at most, and when you get the hang of it, there is no hustle like all them dogfighting sims where you need to keep your eyes on target, watch your back, or master complicated procedures like in A-10C. I have been trying to learn aerial refuting in BMS lately, and it's a no go, not ever, missions in RoF require pure luck in my opinion mostly, not to become toast, IL-2... everybody's been through this, gets routine too fast.

 

However, Black Shark? Once you get comfortable, there is just something magical in sneaking through the mountains, hovering at the right range, firing some VIKHRs and getting the hell out before anyone notices. Plus, it's damn ugly, just the way any proper ground pounder should be.

 

Anyway, cheers for everyone flying the Shark - it makes hair grow on your chest and your junk gets longer when you use the Russian pit.

 

PS Vodka is mandatory after each completed mission. :) Yes, I was just flying and no, I wasn't drinking... too much. :D

[cichlidfan]

Anyway, cheers for everyone flying the Shark - it makes hair grow on your chest and your junk gets longer when you use the Russian pit.

 

 

Now how did the marketing department manage to leave that out of the promo material? :megalol: