DCS F-35A

[xaoslaad]

I'm sort of not surprised they aren't going to make it. I want to see them succeed. To that end I dontated $250. But I don't feel like I'm getting much for a $250 backing.

 

My constructive criticism is that they could use a lesson in marketing.

 

They start out OK. $10 gets Forums access, $28 gets a copy of the game. $50 gets a copy of the game and beta access. $68 gets a boxed package. $80 a flight manual. Those are OK, but then they go off the deep end. $150 gets you 2 versions of the aircraft. $250 3 versions.

 

If they were going to give 1 aircraft for $28, why not two for $56 digital. Three for $84 digital. Make two with Beta access $75, three with beta access $100.

 

Other projects do early bird specials. If $28 is a really discount price and they plan to sell the final product for $49.99, first 20 get it at $28 then. Next $20 for $33, next $20 for $38, etc.

 

I'd also make the physical stuff, which is going to cost them more, addons that people can put in addition to the digital media and PDF's. Make the flight manual an add on for X number of dollars for for a physica copy. Physical copy of F-35A install so many dollars and so on. Hell, show concept art for a nice t-shirt design as an add-on. Remember those cards you used to get back in the day for flight sims that show what every key on the keyboard does for shift, alt, regular, etc. press. Do those in PDF and hard copy as add ons. Others give previous products/games away as incentives, like Torment: Tides of Numenara did (a pretty successful kickstarter project). I don't know what KI has to offer here, if anything, but they should be looking in the give away drawer.

 

I mean the CoC kickstarter had so many rewards in so many combinations, plus addons, that they had to make a frikkan' huge chart, just to help people understand what they got at what levels. Plus addons to cover every other combination.

 

 

[Vivoune]

This makes me laugh a little on the inside every time I see it.

 

The F-35 will be the best fighter jet on the playground when it is ready. Anything less than another F-35 going against it, will fail. (That's what it's built for)

 

To say it is a failing project just because of some issues during early development and acceptance shows your ignorance...

 

I wouldn't be so inclined to call people ignorant. Even more so considering opinions and facts are apparently a source of amalgam to you. No offense.

 

Anyways, about the KS, should it fail, nothing prevents KI to open their own funding system on their website, or start an indigogo campaign.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Vivoune

[TurboHog]

I understand that you can only back a project when you have a credit card right? No PayPal?

[npole]

The F-35 will be the best fighter jet on the playground

 

Really? Even the US government has some reserves about it:

 

http://pogoarchives.org/straus/ote-info-memo-20130215.pdf

 

...do not consider the partners that are considering to cancel their investment this days.

 

Being fanboy about an aircraft is stupid, and calling other "ignorant" (especially after not having performed any reaserch) is childish.

This has nothing to do with the KI project, this is about the real F-35.

If you have data to support your tough, they'll be welcome, otherwise it would be more convenient for me to ignore you. :)

[Flagrum]

Really? Even the US government has some reserves about it:

 

http://pogoarchives.org/straus/ote-info-memo-20130215.pdf

 

...do not consider the partners that are considering to cancel their investment this days.

 

Being fanboy about an aircraft is stupid, and calling other "ignorant" (especially after not having performed any reaserch) is childish.

This has nothing to do with the KI project, this is about the real F-35.

If you have data to support your tough, they'll be welcome, otherwise it would be more convenient for me to ignore you. :)

After skimming the summary, that paper is about the current deficies that prevent a proper training on the aircraft, but not a general criticism?

[NRG-Vampire]

No PayPal?

 

yes, that is strange: no paypal on KS

but we can find paypal on indiegogo which perhaps would have been a better choice

[AndyE]

Really? Even the US government has some reserves about it:

 

http://pogoarchives.org/straus/ote-info-memo-20130215.pdf

 

How do you figure? All I see is a memo stating that the current F-35A fleet can't properly support the current training syllabus. Which isn't all the surprising considering there trying to use an aircraft thats not 100% complete.

 

This has nothing to do with the KI project, this is about the real F-35.

 

Problem is, This thread IS about KI's project. If you want to debate about the real F-35, there is a thread for that. Use it.

[kk0425]

Really? Even the US government has some reserves about it:

 

http://pogoarchives.org/straus/ote-info-memo-20130215.pdf

 

...do not consider the partners that are considering to cancel their investment this days.

 

Being fanboy about an aircraft is stupid, and calling other "ignorant" (especially after not having performed any reaserch) is childish.

This has nothing to do with the KI project, this is about the real F-35.

If you have data to support your tough, they'll be welcome, otherwise it would be more convenient for me to ignore you. :)

 

http://www.rollcall.com/news/the_joint_strike_fighter_is_back_on_track_commentary-225820-1.html

 

Enjoy. I'll continue to be a "fanboy" as you call it. You can continue to hate it. You may want to read your articles before calling it research.

[TurboHog]

Looks like the youtube comment section here...

[Prophet]

That will work with any interactive cockpit. The question with this aircraft is more along the lines of 'will we be able to export the cockpit displays to one or more touch screen monitors and interact with them realistically?'

 

We can already export most of the displays, so I would imagine that would be on the wish-list. We have 3rd party software too that allows more flexibility, like the A10C iPad app.

[jazjar]

I would like to point out to some of the people who don't trust Kinney's sole word that they have ED's backing as well.

[schkorpio]

I think it simply comes down to the Kickstarter itself not being done the in the best way. It could be a great product but the marketing does nothing to tempt me. I want to fly a 5th gen fighter - make me confident in your ability to develop it :D

 

I mean if crap like this can get funded

then I bet if they had a better marketing campaign or showed some basic in-game in cockpit functionality I have no doubt that the DCS community alone would be enough to fund the kickstarter to the highest stretch goal.

 

A video that looks like its been recorded in a corner of your kitchen does not scream "we are a professional dev team" :P

Edited July 8, 2013 by schkorpio

[Rangi]

From the look of it the Kinney team have the best chance of getting a reasonable representation of the F-35 into DCS. If reasonable representation is not good enough for you, fair enough dont pledge. But if you think that these 'best representation' aircraft are going to somehow spoil high fidelity DCS think of it like this. The F-35 is the newest fighter and will (almost certainly, after the problems have been fixed) be one of the most numerous western fighters with many different operating nations, therefore the potential player base is fairly large if Kinney can do it right. All sales of this and any 3rd party module will have to pay royalties to ED and this will give ED a better funding source to build your "super high fidelity" F-18, Su-27, Mig29, f-15 etc. quicker. So think of it as all these "softcore" players playing FC3 and F-35 as subsidizing your next fast jet/WW2 prop (although I think the F-35 will be a lot more than FC3 standard).

 

I think this project more than perhaps any other third party has the potential to bring in many new to DCS customers and the more the merrier and if any team can do a good job of the F-35 the Kinney team seems to be well qualified. Sorry for the big ramble i know its hard enough to wade through though this tread, but wanted to say how I see it and don't get me wrong I prefer the DCS A-10C style, high fidelity, best approximation type simulation, but I also see the use and perhaps need (given the small player base for "hardcore") of any team that will bring us a well made, great looking and very detailed sim product. So back to baking that f-35 pie Kinney I'm sure there will be buyers no matter which way you can fund the development.

[jazjar]

I believe this will be one of the higher fidelity simulations in the DCS line. They have already stated that they've done programming for B-2 simulators, etc... I think they can live up to or beat their word.

[Rangi]

I believe this will be one of the higher fidelity simulations in the DCS line. They have already stated that they've done programming for B-2 simulators, etc... I think they can live up to or beat their word.

 

I think so too, I was just playing devils advocate and trying to say, even the people that think it wont be should not be scared of it.

[OB1]

My opinion the F-35 is a good BVR combat aircraft but an expensive WVR fireball. It is such an ambitious project to try and develop an unproven and classified aircraft. It doesnt even suit the current DCS theater, its out of place and to develop believable missions they would have to develop more classified aircraft in which I personally have no interest in.

 

Don't get me wrong I do hope this project is successful mainly because of the additional features they propose to implement that would carry across to all aircraft in DCS world.

 

Contrary to what many people think, the interest of the F-35 is a small group within an already niche community. This community is build mostly on hardcore flight simmers, pilots, ex-pilots and persons in the aviation industry that value accuracy in aircraft modeling over fantasy guess work.

 

If Mr Kinney proved his said ability's on a more modest start, say a Mig-29K/OVT, Su-27K/M, F-15E, F-16E/F or even a F-14D at a DCS A-10C level, then he would have a much better chance with an F-35 campaign as even those opposed to the F-35 would most likely donate purely just to support the flight sim community.

Edited July 8, 2013 by OB1

[71st_Mastiff]

You got to start some where, be it kindergarten or 1st grade.

[TZeer]

This community is build mostly on hardcore flight simmers, pilots, ex-pilots and persons in the aviation industry that value accuracy in aircraft modeling over fantasy guess work.

 

Wrong. The verbal ones on these forums like to think that the community is made up of hardcore simmers. But the truth is that the most-selling product from ED is Flaming Cliff. This has been mentioned by Wags himself in discussions that have drifted into the same area of topic.

 

Myself, I enjoy the A-10C and it's complexity. Do I own flaming cliffs? Yes, but mostly for curiosity and support.

 

I think and hope KI will pull this off, and provide us with an excellent simulation of the F-35. Looking forward to when the project really kicks off, and we can start to do some testing.

Edited July 8, 2013 by TZeer

[AndyE]

It doesnt even suit the current DCS theater, its out of place and to develop believable missions they would have to develop more classified aircraft in which I personally have no interest in.

 

Why does this even matter? If they released the F-35 today, then you might have an argument. But the release is at least a year off, probably longer. Which means that by the time it is released we'll hopefully have EDGE with several new theaters. As to needing to develop more classified aircraft, why? When the F-35 enters service for real a good number of the aircraft currently in the sim or in development will still be in service. So missions in the new theaters, depending on where it is, could be quite realistic. But then again why does it have to be realistic? ;)

[Brenchen]

I thought F35 was a reasonably new aircraft. I'm curious as to how would anyone able to legally get hold of the documentation required to produce an in depth simulation at this stage?

 

(Sorry if this has been asked before, but 164 pages of post is a bit daunting to go through...)

[smnwrx]

My biggest concern isnt with the plane they chose, its more with goal that is set. it seemed a little out of touch. I hate to keep bringing up the mig but its all I have to go by, if I remember right it was the first announced 3rd party A/C, looks to be the first DCS quality fast jet and its being developed by a veteran of the community. With all that goin for it, that campaign was successful at a much smaller total (i can't remember the exact total).i believe KI have already surpassed that witch IMO is due to the Interest in the f-35. It really drove home for me how niche market this is. I hope that the numbers arn't discouraging and they can find a way to fund and profit from DCS

Edited July 8, 2013 by smnwrx

[justoc]

Wrong. The verbal ones on these forums like to think that the community is made up of hardcore simmers. But the truth is that the most-selling product from ED is Flaming Cliff. This has been mentioned by Wags himself in discussions that have drifted into the same area of topic.

 

Really? That is surprising. So is the AFM for us, or them?

[OB1]

Wrong. The verbal ones on these forums like to think that the community is made up of hardcore simmers. But the truth is that the most-selling product from ED is Flaming Cliff.

 

The majority of the community do not post on the forums. I know of 7 members in my own community that play DCS and only care for the realism, they never visit the forums.

 

Flaming cliffs is the most sold because its been around the longest. Its appealing because it is currently the only module that allows people to fly air superiority fighters, don't need to be a genius to crunch those numbers.

 

why does it have to be realistic?

 

Personal preference.

 

Start a poll and ask "Does realism matter" you will get your answer.

Edited July 8, 2013 by OB1

[npole]

If Mr Kinney proved his said ability's on a more modest start, say a Mig-29K/OVT, Su-27K/M, F-15E, F-16E/F or even a F-14D at a DCS A-10C level, then he would have a much better chance with an F-35 campaign as even those opposed to the F-35 would most likely donate purely just to support the flight sim community.

 

I'm saying this from the start.. and playing with a little of malice, I can say that going with a "unknown" aircraft, none would have the capability of saying if it is accurate or not, especially in the avionics.

[Cedaway]

I went to the Russian side of the forum, where there is also a thread about the K.I. F-35 and where Frogfut is active. I feel it's encouraging when I read (google translations) like these about the project:

 

Quotes:

Место вакантное. Садись и делай. Если кто-то купит, то это же здорово.

Группа товарищей сидит и верещит, что все делают не то. Так сядьте и сделайте ТО®.

Раскрою секрет: для меня самым тем вообще будет самолет, спроектированный внутри DCS и не имеющий аналогов(с) в мире реальном.

 

Translation: Seat vacant. Sit down and do it. If someone will buy it, then that's great.

Group comrades sitting and vereschit what everyone is doing wrong. So sit down and do the ®.

uncover the secret: for me the most is that all aircraft, designed in DCS and unparalleled (s) in the real world.

 

"Как говорит наш дорогой шеф, в нашем деле главное - реализьм!" Или уже "шеф ED" для серии DCS так не говорит?

 

translation: "As our dear boss, in our case the main thing - realizmu!" Or is "Chief ED" for the DCS does not say?

 

Это моё личное желание и оно вполне реализуемо с хорошей степенью реализма.

 

translation: This is my personal wish and it is quite achievable with a good degree of realism.

 

AND about realism in general:

 

Определенные есть. Это будет похоже на реал, но не будет реалом. Многие вещи современный ПК просто не потянет.

 

Translation: Certain it is. This would be similar to the real, but will not be real. Many things modern PC just does not pull.

 

 

AND finally, for the haters ;) :

 

Тебя никто не заставляет покупать.

Когда нет выбора, что покупать, это, конечно, круче:)

ЕД делает мустанг - ФУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУ! Дайте современный истребитель!

Кто-то делает современный истребитель - ФУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУУ! Дайте нам самолет брайтьев Райт!

Вас не поймешь. А теперь вам и Тайфун, и Ф-35, и FW-190, и МиГ-21 - всё плохо.

 

Translation: You are not forced to buy.

When there is no choice of what to buy, it is certainly cooler units makes mustang - FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Do! Give a modern fighter! Someone makes a modern fighter - FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU! Give us a plane BRITE Wright! You would not understand. And now you and the Typhoon and the F-35 and FW-190 and MiG-21 - all bad.