Python Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I think it is quite safe to say that of course ED is planning an F-16 for themselves, that much was obvious when all of the third party projects started popping up and a Viper didn't. They have probably started it already..... :thumbup: It's bound to be a huge seller!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Supersheep Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Maybe I don't know enough about the sim business (quite likely), but aren't there some high-quality F-16s already? ED (or whoever) better does a top notch job, or people look elsewhere. This level of requirement puts any profit into perspective, me thinks. The PVC Pipe Joystick Stand How to thread
Mike Busutil Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Remember this gem... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Checkout my user files here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/filter/user-is-Mike Busutil/apply/
OB1 Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 It appeared in one of your posts that you said you didn't want the F-35 in DCS. I took that to mean that you thought it shouldn't be there. I know those two statements are not the same, nor is it necessarily relevant (you are able to have that opinion and I certainly don't want to argue your opinion against mine). I am sorry if anyone misunderstood, I would never wish a DCS project to fail even if I do not favor the aircraft in question. I believe I never said I did 'not' want the F-35 in DCS in fact I believe I said I wish it would succeed for various reasons that I did explain. The A model has a gun. I'm assuming the B and C do not to save weight/space. I personally don't think it's wise to get rid of the gun but at the same time I don't know what real world combat is like and maybe they just don't use guns much any more. I don't know. Your reference is valid; however, because often we do get "ahead of ourselves" in regards to technology. To further explain my meaning associated to the F-4 analogy. I did not intent to imply dogfight (guns) with the F-35. Yes in the F-4 era they made the mistake of assuming no gun would be needed because of the speed and distances at which combat would take place. Extrapolate the concept and idea around the F-4 in terms of combat deployment, and it is my opinion they have traded off some vital characteristics to achieve a new idea and way in which the F-35 is perceived to be deployed. Its my opinion the F-35 has sacrificed speed, agility, climb and sustained turn capabilities for stealth, STOVL (model dependent) and general orientation to long range combat BVR. I believe if the F-35 merged with most late model 4th gen fighters it would loose its advantage. Hence my analogy to the F-4. When Migs closed the distance the F-4's lost their advantage in particular with the Mig-21s.
ED Team NineLine Posted July 9, 2013 ED Team Posted July 9, 2013 Its my opinion the F-35 has sacrificed speed, agility, climb and sustained turn capabilities for stealth, STOVL (model dependent) and general orientation to long range combat BVR. And? Isnt that what they were going for? I mean you make it sound like they got here by accident and not by design... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
OB1 Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 And? Isnt that what they were going for? I mean you make it sound like they got here by accident and not by design... To sacrifice is a known and not be construed as an accident. Of course it was designed that way, I stated it is my opinion that this direction is a mistake. No need to get agitated.
ED Team NineLine Posted July 9, 2013 ED Team Posted July 9, 2013 Not agitated, just not seeing your logic... To sacrifice is a known and not be construed as an accident. Of course it was designed that way, I stated it is my opinion that this direction is a mistake. No need to get agitated. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
GGTharos Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) You are stating that building a strike aircraft with strike as its primary role is a mistake? None of what you mentioned was sacrificed for stealth. The F-22 has all of those capabilities together, and that is an older stealth technology than the F-35. There doesn't seem to be a need to sacrifice anything for stealth, unlike the F-117. By the way, a loaded F-35 out-climbs a clean F-16 ... it will have similar turn rates as a loaded F-16, and exceeds AoA capability of an F-18 ... just saying. By the way, it beats all of the teen fighters, and even the F-22, when it comes to situational awareness. And as someone who 'studies history', you should have known the most important truth here: It's the one you didn't see that gets you. And the F-35, right now, as is, sees everything, while it's opponents aren't as likely to see it coming. Edited July 9, 2013 by GGTharos [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
SkateZilla Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Remember this gem... From 5 Years ago, and there's no hint of it even in DCS. Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs
Snoopy Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 From 5 Years ago, and there's no hint of it even in DCS. Exactly...it didn't even make it in as an AI model. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
SkateZilla Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Exactly...it didn't even make it in as an AI model. Was there ever any information posted as to why? Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs
sobek Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Was there ever any information posted as to why? Not to my knowledge. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
ED Team NineLine Posted July 9, 2013 ED Team Posted July 9, 2013 Not to my knowledge. On their vacant model list the F-16C & D are marked as models being worked on... perhaps it go shelved at some point and they never got back to it, but it would appear they are still around... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Mike Busutil Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I better post a picture of an F-35 before this thread get's too far off course.... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Checkout my user files here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/filter/user-is-Mike Busutil/apply/
beaupower32 Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Nice CG graphic. "There is always a small microcosm of people who need to explain away their suckage" [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
ENO Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Just put 150 bucks into the pot... 3 days left guys. My suggestion is that ANYONE wanting to post off topic nonsense in here needs to attach the receipt for 100 dollar donation or more. "ENO" Type in anger and you will make the greatest post you will ever regret. "Sweetest's" Military Aviation Art
311Gryphon Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Its my opinion the F-35 has sacrificed speed, agility, climb and sustained turn capabilities for stealth, STOVL (model dependent) and general orientation to long range combat BVR. I believe if the F-35 merged with most late model 4th gen fighters it would loose its advantage. Hence my analogy to the F-4. When Migs closed the distance the F-4's lost their advantage in particular with the Mig-21s. I can somewhat see your point there. Obviously a plane can't have everything. It can have a lot depending on how much you want to spend on it. I suppose that this doesn't bother me because we have a really advanced (the most advanced) air superiority fighter in the F-22 so do we need another? It's somewhat like the F-16 compared to the F-15 in some ways (not exactly but somewhat). From my understanding, the F-35 is not meant to be an air superiority fighter. Therefore it doesn't have to win in every merge. But thanks to technology it should still be able to thanks to stealth and more advanced stand off weapons. Different platforms are built for different things and the philosophy of a combat force doesn't match the philosophy of another. I suppose time will tell if decisions are good or not. http://www.youtube.com/user/311Gryphon i7-8700, 32 GB DDR4 3000, GTX 1080 TI 11GB, 240 GB SSD, 2TB HDD, Dual (sometimes Triple) monitor, TM Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pro Combat Pedals, TrackIR [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
311Gryphon Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I better post a picture of an F-35 before this thread get's too far off course.... That's awesome! http://www.youtube.com/user/311Gryphon i7-8700, 32 GB DDR4 3000, GTX 1080 TI 11GB, 240 GB SSD, 2TB HDD, Dual (sometimes Triple) monitor, TM Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pro Combat Pedals, TrackIR [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
schkorpio Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 I would have expected octagonal stealth drop tanks :) But damn that looks nice! Sponsored by: http://www.ozpc.com.au
outlawal2 Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 I can somewhat see your point there. Obviously a plane can't have everything. It can have a lot depending on how much you want to spend on it. I suppose that this doesn't bother me because we have a really advanced (the most advanced) air superiority fighter in the F-22 so do we need another? It's somewhat like the F-16 compared to the F-15 in some ways (not exactly but somewhat). From my understanding, the F-35 is not meant to be an air superiority fighter. Therefore it doesn't have to win in every merge. But thanks to technology it should still be able to thanks to stealth and more advanced stand off weapons. Different platforms are built for different things and the philosophy of a combat force doesn't match the philosophy of another. I suppose time will tell if decisions are good or not. Also, don't forget that the F22 is an Air-Force only plane so the navy will not get ANY benefit from it in a naval encounter... So with that in mind, the F-35 DOES need to kind of be the jack of all trades so air to air is important if not the primary objective... "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO
smnwrx Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Also, don't forget that the F22 is an Air-Force only plane so the navy will not get ANY benefit from it in a naval encounter... So with that in mind, the F-35 DOES need to kind of be the jack of all trades so air to air is important if not the primary objective... i belive the navy plans to continue to fly super hornets as well. so they are only adding to their capabilities IMO Edited July 10, 2013 by smnwrx
Snoopy Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 I would have expected octagonal stealth drop tanks :) But damn that looks nice! External stores, to include drop tanks, won't be used initially but once air supremacy has been established. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
OB1 Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 By the way, a loaded F-35 out-climbs a clean F-16 ... it will have similar turn rates as a loaded F-16, and exceeds AoA capability of an F-18 ... just saying. I didn't say all of them could By the way, it beats all of the teen fighters, and even the F-22, when it comes to situational awareness. And as someone who 'studies history', you should have known the most important truth here: It's the one you didn't see that gets you. And the F-35, right now, as is, sees everything, while it's opponents aren't as likely to see it coming. Never at any point did I talk or want to talk about its situational awareness, and the said effectiveness of stealth can be a huge matter of debate I do not care to entertain.
GGTharos Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 It isn't a matter of debate. It's a 'matter of debate' only to those who believe in magical anti-stealth radars. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
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