DCS 1.2.5 Released, Update 2 Released

[PFunk1606688187]

Most importantly, DCS 1.2.5 does not currently support WinXP

 

I REALLY don't want to be one of those dicks who complains about ED being lame and stuff but... nobody on the tester team uses or tried out Win XP?

 

If there's a post about it in the Bugs and Problems forum there's a pretty good chance ED knows about it. In fact, if you use the Search function and find any posts related to whatever you're about to ask about, there's a pretty good chance ED knows about it and will work on it in the future when time and resources allow.

 

If an official bug tracker for DCS existed, these constant whining posts would not go away. They would just change into "Bug x exists in the tracker, so why isn't it fixed in <latest version number here>? Since it's in the bug tracker it should be fixed already! COME ON GUYS IT WAS REPORTED <number of days> AGO!! NEVER BUYING MODULES AGAIN. Q_Q"

 

If a bug is listed in the Bugs and Problems forum, assume ED knows about it and will work on it in the future with no promises until the patch has been released and it is specifically listed in the change log. Even a planned change list isn't a 100% guarantee, as that is the nature of software development.

 

So what you propose already exists, people just choose not to use or acknowledge it.

 

What you're saying basically boils down to "if you've written to your congressman you should just assume he listened to what you had to say".

 

Its not about what ought to be true though. People are lazy and people are stupid and at least if there's a directory of acknowledged bugs its something a bit more concrete to go on than just hoping a posted bug was noticed. People want to hear a positive acknowledgement most of the time rather than a silent implicit one. Psychologically its a huge difference.

 

I'm not someone who really cares either way, but there are ways used in the real world to manage public confidence that work. Arma's ACE devs keep a pretty robust and thorough bug tracker with dev input visible in the tracked bug. Even if a bug isn't solved in a patch you can see some progress on it. Its a lot better than the quiet assumption that something is important or not. Seeing (in progress) next to a bug says something.

Edited July 23, 2013 by P*Funk

[Dudester22]

I'm sure I saw them! And I wasn't taking any drugs at the time. I think I saw them. I'm gonna have to check it again.

 

What do you mean by this? You quoted me on page fifteen?

Edited July 23, 2013 by Dudester22

[Blacknemisis]

Any one else notice the green gas explosions on tanks? Is this a bug or is it ammo and gas going off?

[Laurius]

I just own DCS A-10C and P-51D modules but never flew the latter nor the SU-25 (or so little).

Surprinsigly, my TM HOTAS Warthog throttles were not responding as usual and seemed totally ignored after updating to 1.2.5.

I flew "River Raider" mission, which I like to use as a test mission. Throttles and every switches were ineffective. No alarm even after having set them to IDLE or disengaging EAC and RDR ALTM.

That's the very first time that such thing occurs to me.

I simply replaced the Throttle .lua file from a previous version and everything seems to work fine again...

I own DCS World since the begining and applied every updates without any problem so far. So strange...

[uboats]

I just found that the warning voice as well as ATC becomes russian not english in 1.2.5.

How can I change it back to english like it was in 1.2.4?

[Psyrixx]

What you're saying basically boils down to "if you've written to your congressman you should just assume he listened to what you had to say".

 

What I'm saying is that ED doesn't represent the public like a congressman does. They're a private company. The fact that they give us weekly updates is amazing in and of itself. There's a place to post bugs and that should be good enough. If and when they get around to fixing them, or even acknowledging them, is their business.

 

Is the game playable? Yes. Are there bugs? Yes. Are any super-major-showstopping bugs? Sure, a few, and they're working on resolving them. Do people want <feature x> as well? I have no doubt. But guess what? The bugs are going to take precedence. And whatever order they get fixed in depends on what projects the developers responsible for fixing those bugs are currently working on and how important it is to the overall picture of what they want the game to be.

 

They don't owe it to any of us to even give us a heads up that they're fixing stuff. They could just be like the guys over at DICE or a plethora of other large game development studios and release patches without any notice and generally have horrible community relations. Instead, they devote some of their energies to interacting with their customers and fans. Telling them that isn't enough and they should spend additional time setting up a bug tracker and constantly monitoring it and keeping it up to date is just unnecessary. To be honest, that time would be better spent improving the game.

 

It's not like they can all of a sudden flip a switch and have a fully populated bug tracking system. It takes developer time and energy to not only set it up but also populate it and then maintain it to make sure there aren't duplicate posts, etc. Which, if the forums are any indication, there will be thousands of duplicate submissions to sift through. Too much of a time sink for a smaller company.

 

All I'm saying is: submit your bug and assume it has been seen. Most of the mission critical ones will be acknowledged and addressed very quickly, and the rest will be gotten to when resources allow. Yeah it isn't ideal to have zero feedback, but there are TONS of ED Testers as well as Wags who frequent the forums and keep an eye on all of these things. I can almost guarantee if it has been mentioned in the proper channels, someone has forwarded it up the chain of command to the developers.

 

:thumbup:

 

Edit:

And I'm not saying that Eagle Dynamics way is perfect. There are other studios that have more resources to commit to community interaction, managing a bug tracker, running frequently updated Wiki's and web presences, etc. At some point, Eagle Dynamics may get big enough or reorganize themselves in a way that this will be possible for them; however, I highly doubt that telling them how to run their company will accomplish much more than annoy the very people who are trying to keep the community happy. Have patience, there are more important things than a few bugs and features in a highly complicated piece of computer software.

 

Edit 2:

And we all know that no matter how often you write your congressman, his aide is the one who reads your letter before promptly filing it in the paper shredder. :P

Edited July 24, 2013 by Psyrixx

[Blacknemisis]

Anybody noticed that using right mouse button, and pointing at enemy ground unit and clicking left button, pilot reports enemy units position ?

 

On another note: when the option to disable trackir when using sights is on, i cant control weapon sight with mouse..I just can turn the pilot head without sight moving?

 

Never knew this was in the sim how does it work? I tried it and nothing happens.

[Tone71]

What do you mean by this? You quoted me on page fifteen?

 

Didn't make sense to me either but I think he misquoted and was actually talking about canopy scratches; just a guess mind.

[PFunk1606688187]

They don't owe it to any of us to even give us a heads up that they're fixing stuff.

That's debatable. Owe? Not directly, but as paying customers in a scheme that implies long term support and future products tied into the framework of the one you're buying, they do owe something. There's a relationship between customers and the ones who purvey their goods to them. The maintenance of that relationship is important to everyone, or else PR people would never exist.

 

It's not like they can all of a sudden flip a switch and have a fully populated bug tracking system. It takes developer time and energy to not only set it up but also populate it and then maintain it to make sure there aren't duplicate posts, etc. Which, if the forums are any indication, there will be thousands of duplicate submissions to sift through. Too much of a time sink for a smaller company.

Nobody is suggesting they "flip a switch" but small development groups seem to have no trouble populating thorough bug tracking systems, and frankly any organized development process requires an in house version of this anyway so its not like there isn't energy being put into tracking bugs and since we know they read bug submissions they're already sifting through them, so your argument here isn't terribly convincing.

 

Viability of the public bug tracker shouldn't be the issue, instead it would be a matter of willingness or desire or belief in the value of it.

 

 

I highly doubt that telling them how to run their company will accomplish much more than annoy the very people who are trying to keep the community happy.

Asking for a bug tracker with positive Dev acknowledgement is hardly telling them how to run their company. As it stands asking for such a thing shouldn't be any more offensive or obnoxious than the endless tirade of idiots and buffoons who whine and complain.

 

If a constructive argument pisses off a company, then I don't know if I want to give them my money. :P

 

 

Like I said, I don't really care either way, but the arugment can be made. Plenty of communities do it and plenty smaller than ED. Many many of them are unpaid part time modders. This is still a private business, but there are implications with respect to its nature as a niche product. These communities are very entrenched and loyal, so the relationship is going to be very different than with a big company with millions of customers. Also, there are to be expectations, reasonable ones, fair ones, irrational ones, rude and incomprehensible ones. There are ways to mitigate the crazier end of it and reward the respectful end as well. Thats all it is in my mind.

 

I don't expect it, or require it, but its an option, and a smart one but I'm not a dev or a tester or anybody special so my opinion is pretty meaningless. :thumbup:

 

EDIT. On a sterner note, it always annoys me to no end when 3 or 4 jackasses made stupid comments after an update and a moderator or someone with some official authority basically threatens to cut off the whole community's access to much welcomed information because a handful of complete numpties run their mouths. That, to me, is absurd and discouraging. It does nothing to stem the BS and seems itself utterly disrespectful, so there's that too.

 

That kind of reaction seems to me like people being pig headed about the internet. Its gonna happen, but for some reason official looking people seem to want to bite back at it in frustration or annoyance. If its that big of a deal, then maybe an alternate means of mollifying at least some of the crazies is in order, hence my argument.

Edited July 24, 2013 by P*Funk

[ENO]

EDIT. On a sterner note, it always annoys me to no end when 3 or 4 jackasses made stupid comments after an update and a moderator or someone with some official authority basically threatens to cut off the whole community's access to much welcomed information because a handful of complete numpties run their mouths. That, to me, is absurd and discouraging. It does nothing to stem the BS and seems itself utterly disrespectful, so there's that too.

 

That kind of reaction seems to me like people being pig headed about the internet. Its gonna happen, but for some reason official looking people seem to want to bite back at it in frustration or annoyance. If its that big of a deal, then maybe an alternate means of mollifying at least some of the crazies is in order, hence my argument.

 

As an observer to someone who "doesn't care either way" you're walking a very fine line to not only being one of those jackasses, but also being someone who entitles themselves to a superficial aire of "official authority." A page long diatribe does not a substantiated opinion make- no matter how many ways you try to explain it.

 

We get it, your way is better and if they don't do it that way you're not going to spend any more money on ED. Got it. Next point please.

 

Why does every thread have to regress into page long analogies of the faults of the ED business model?

[Gooseneck]

As an observer to someone who "doesn't care either way" you're walking a very fine line to not only being one of those jackasses, but also being someone who entitles themselves to a superficial aire of "official authority." A page long diatribe does not a substantiated opinion make- no matter how many ways you try to explain it.

 

We get it, your way is better and if they don't do it that way you're not going to spend any more money on ED. Got it. Next point please.

 

Why does every thread have to regress into page long analogies of the faults of the ED business model?

 

So should I update DCS World now, or wait for the re-issue?

[Psyrixx]

That's debatable. Owe? Not directly, but as paying customers in a scheme that implies long term support and future products tied into the framework of the one you're buying, they do owe something. There's a relationship between customers and the ones who purvey their goods to them.

 

I'm really not trying to start a flame war here (and I also want to let you know that I'm not singling you or any part of your argument out), but I do want to point out that all they really "owe" anyone is to provide a product that works as advertised. If you bought a module and can load the module up and fly in it, they've provided you with what they've promised you. Anything else is just icing on the cake.

 

That being said, Eagle Dynamics is awesome enough to be a stand up developer that wants to provide us with the best damn flight simulator available on the market. They are more than nice enough to provide us with freebies (such as the AFM for the current owners of Flaming Cliffs 3 planes at no additional cost). They are also courteous enough to provide us with updates on their progress of updating the product(s) on a weekly basis.

 

The weekly updates are a relatively new thing, too. It wasn't too long ago when there would be a significant stretch of time between news regarding patches, and we certainly didn't get many teaser images of new models/features that were coming in to the game. And I must say I definitely appreciate the increase in communication and to be honest the reason for all of my long winded replies is that I am afraid that if some of the people in these forums don't settle down a bit and relax, these weekly updates might disappear (not looking at you, P*Funk, just speaking about the general negativity towards what has/hasn't been included in patches).

 

We've already lost news updates on Nevada/EDGE due to negativity and I don't want to see the weekly updates disappear entirely because people are just too impatient to wait until whatever feature or bug they've been anticipating a fix for is addressed.

 

Again, my whole point has been "read the change log, if it's not included it hasn't been addressed". The people posting about new bugs introduced in this patch, or saying that the A-10A flight model didn't seem to be different are being very helpful to ED and as we can see, they have double checked and confirmed that these issues do exist and now they are working on fixing them with a high priority. These aren't the people who are potentially putting anything at risk and their feed back is very likely appreciated by both developers and other forum visitors.

 

I don't expect it, or require it, but its an option, and a smart one but I'm not a dev or a tester or anybody special so my opinion is pretty meaningless. :thumbup:

 

I'm actually not saying that a public bug tracker is a bad idea. I think it has merit and is overall a wonderful idea. I also think that your suggestion could end up being counter-productive at the moment so I'm just listing reasons why it might not be in their best interests at this time to try and implement a public bug tracking system.

 

I do honestly feel that if such a tracker went public, there would be more posts about "why isn't feature <x> implemented yet" than we have even now. Since a lot of forum visitors seem to see something in an update and, even if it's version 1 of a concept design for a new feature (and is presented as such), they immediately jump to thinking that will be a feature coming in the next patch. With a bug tracker to list all of the bugs and/or feature requests, I feel there would be no end to the complaints about what should or should not be addressed in each individual patch.

 

It's possible ED feels this way too and that's why they haven't implemented any form of public bug tracker. It's also possible that they just don't have a dedicated web team to set it up and manage it. Regardless, ED seems to be very well connected with their community and much more so than many of the larger studios that DO have dedicated teams to handle such things and my entire point is that they've done right by us so far, so I trust them to continue to improve the product without us needing to worry about what bugs have or have not been seen by them.

 

Taking several separate products and merging them into a single cohesive vision is an amazing undertaking in itself, and is bound to introduce bugs and performance problems. The fact that they're not only addressing all of the major ones but also trying to introduce a fair amount of new content into the product without charging anyone extra for it is just absolutely amazing to me. It's definitely not something they owe us for purchasing the product, but they're addressing it anyways.

 

So my very long winded point is, some of the more uptight people here on the forums need to chillax a bit, realize they're getting a heck of a lot for what they've paid for their products, and just let ED do their thing and improve upon what we've got. A lot of really cool stuff is coming, we all just have to have some patience. :thumbup:

[Psyrixx]

So should I update DCS World now, or wait for the re-issue?

 

If you are running on an operating system other than Windows XP and don't particularly need the Advanced Flight Model to be working on the A-10A from Flaming Cliffs 3, go ahead and get the update now. Besides, when the hotfix comes out to address the few bugs that were introduced in this patch, it should make for a smaller download if you've already bumped up to 1.2.5.

 

:)

[leafer]

Ahh I just dropped some CBU97s, and my puter did not go into a seizure. In fact I killed all 4 tanks where I couldn't before the patch. Nice.

 

Cockpit zoom, especially the Huey is not so nice.

[Rusty_M]

Did you try CBU87's? They were always the killer for me. I actually haven't had the chance to try the update yet.

[splash]

In my opinion, ED is working very well, we have a very nice simulator and the communication with community is pretty good.

[leafer]

Just tried dropping 2 CBU87s on same targets, and my puter got a shrivel. :D I hope this is fixed soon.

[112th_Rossi]

Meh,

 

New patch introduces new bugs shock! It's not like that's never happened before in any other game. That software development. At least Wags and the team acknowledged the problem instead of sweeping it under the carpet and then releasing a stealth patch like some companies do.

[LcSummers]

Thanks ED,

 

downloading now, later i will try it!!

 

S!

[LostOblivion]

Anyone noticed the new sight for the Huey pilot? Awesome! Seems they are still working on the reticle though.

[Rusty_M]

Just tried dropping 2 CBU87s on same targets, and my puter got a shrivel. :D I hope this is fixed soon.

 

Ah well. They've stated they're working on new effects and I didn't expect them to be in this patch. Being worked on is the main thing.

[SkateZilla]

I dont think CBUs were on the list of new Effects for 1.2.5..

 

I've developed a new blanket of destruction method though..

 

If there's a group of small vehicles... and I have HE Ammo.... try to gain as much ALT as I can.. Roll over, pull back, dive, while dumping HE Ammo all over the target area... or come in at a angle/glide and just dump ammo in the TGT Area.. and watch on TGP.

 

(Using Cannon)

[jayta98]

Hi guys, are the UH-1H training missions deleted? In the notes it says they are under training for download. I don't see anything under the UH-1H in game tab.

 

Also I noticed after the update none of my usb controllers were working in the game. I restarted my PC and they work fine now. Just wanted to pass that on if someone else has issues with their controllers after updating to 1.25.

[Python]

Mine vanished but there was a download option so i simply clicked it and they downloaded.

[kontiuka]

There's a new Wags update post. Anyone seen it yet?