ED Team NineLine Posted February 10, 2016 ED Team Posted February 10, 2016 Just for interest, here's a 1940s vintage, Rolls-Royce film about manufacturing the Merlin: Ours will come no assembly required :) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Combat Wombat Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Not one I had seen before Thanks, All those drawings and files and workers at the start Completely replaced with a simple laptop and a CAD program today! I also wonder what happened to all the tools for producing that iconic machine ? I wonder if some were destroyed part of disarming process or are they stored in the bowels of RR or BMW whoever owns it these days .
HeadHunter52 Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 How close are we getting Sith on the release? I want my P-47 ... THIS :thumbup::thumbup: Dogs of War Squadron Call sign "HeadHunter" P-51D /Spitfire Jockey Gigabyte EP45T-UD3LR /Q9650 3.6Ghz | 16GB DDR3 1600 RipJaws | EVGA GTX-1060 ACX3 FTW | ThrustMaster 16000m & G13 GamePad w/analog rudder stick | TurtleBeach EarForce PX22 | Track IR5 | Vizio 40" 4K TV monitor (stuck temporarily with an Acer 22" :( )
HeadHunter52 Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Sounds a little bit like a rip of American Patrol.... It's okay, I guess. It's more of a cover for a dance prior to a sqdrn shipping out than something about a deadly machine engaging the enemy. The P-51 theme was a wonderful thing. Dogs of War Squadron Call sign "HeadHunter" P-51D /Spitfire Jockey Gigabyte EP45T-UD3LR /Q9650 3.6Ghz | 16GB DDR3 1600 RipJaws | EVGA GTX-1060 ACX3 FTW | ThrustMaster 16000m & G13 GamePad w/analog rudder stick | TurtleBeach EarForce PX22 | Track IR5 | Vizio 40" 4K TV monitor (stuck temporarily with an Acer 22" :( )
Farlander Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 THIS :thumbup::thumbup: How close are we to get both out the way? I want the 262 :D :joystick:
Solty Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 I think that DCS theme about spitfire should be something similar in tone to the Battle of Britain theme. Uplifting yet not joyous. Maybe that kind of spin on the DCS world main theme? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA
MAD-MM Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) The K4 and Dora Theme is described music for this time with speaking from some bad boys. Possible we need more Winston Churchill in the sound" we never surrender ":) [ame] [/ame] Edited February 10, 2016 by MAD-MM Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 9./JG27
Talisman_VR Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) No timeline on release yet, currently, it sounds like it will have the full wing, and possibly, maybe, not for sure, a clipped wing option. No, surely the developers are not back tracking and giving in to pressure on the clip wing. After all, it is a Low Fighter (LF) version, so surely it should have a clip wing (most common for LF). The clip wing is perfectly in keeping with the natural development of the Spitfire for 1944/45 and should not be compromised for the sake of a beauty completion; surely not. The wings were clipped for a very good reason for the time period and LF version operational requirements; lets keep it real. Surely we want the performance for combat on the Normandy map, not just flying around giving air shows. Come on people, lets have the proper most common wing for the LF version and that was clipped! There will be plenty of opportunity for the full wing when earlier versions of the Spitfire are provided. Happy landings (with clipped wing Spits), Talisman Edited February 10, 2016 by 56RAF_Talisman
westr Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 From the ED Facebook page. To me the Spitfire is one of the most beautiful aircraft ever made and the elliptical wing is a big part of her appeal. I think if ED were to incorporate the ability to change her to the clipped wing version this would represent an ideal solution. RYZEN 7 3700X Running at 4.35 GHz NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080Ti 32gb DDR4 RAM @3200 MHz Oculus CV1 NvME 970 EVO TM Warthog Stick & Throttle plus 11" extension. VKB T-Rudder MKIV
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted February 10, 2016 Author ED Team Posted February 10, 2016 No, surely the developers are not back tracking and giving in to pressure on the clip wing. After all, it is a Low Fighter (LF) version, so surely it should have a clip wing (most common for LF). The clip wing is perfectly in keeping with the natural development of the Spitfire for 1944/45 and should not be compromised for the sake of a beauty completion; surely not. The wings were clipped for a very good reason for the time period and LF version operational requirements; lets keep it real. Surely we want the performance for combat on the Normandy map, not just flying around giving air shows. Come on people, lets have the proper most common wing for the LF version and that was clipped! There will be plenty of opportunity for the full wing when earlier versions of the Spitfire are provided. Happy landings (with clipped wing Spits), Talisman The matter is not so simple: clipped wings Spit traded better roll rate for climb and turn rate. That's why LF type had both types of wings. Moreover - wingtips were shipped with clipped wings. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me
Solty Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) No, surely the developers are not back tracking and giving in to pressure on the clip wing. After all, it is a Low Fighter (LF) version, so surely it should have a clip wing (most common for LF). The clip wing is perfectly in keeping with the natural development of the Spitfire for 1944/45 and should not be compromised for the sake of a beauty completion; surely not. The wings were clipped for a very good reason for the time period and LF version operational requirements; lets keep it real. Surely we want the performance for combat on the Normandy map, not just flying around giving air shows. Come on people, lets have the proper most common wing for the LF version and that was clipped! There will be plenty of opportunity for the full wing when earlier versions of the Spitfire are provided. Happy landings (with clipped wing Spits), Talisman I am not a Spitfire expert... but I am pretty sure lots of Spitfires used eliptical wing. Moreover, even Spitfire Mk XIV has eliptical wings in some versions. According to wiki:smartass:, tips were attachable and detachable. That is why you have the same wing, just with 3 different types of tips. Eliptical beeing the standard. Long for high altitude. Clipped for low level flying. Of course there were units that were using each of those variants, and I am still sure the eliptical was more common in 1944. I would like to have both... but realy... eliptical has more interesting dynamics. The standard eliptical Spitfire has quite heavy aileron's, very similar to the Bf109, at high speeds, but at the same time it has very light elevator. But eliptical wing has also an advantage of beeing more stable during turning at low speeds and has higher stalling speed which improves sustained turning, a thing that Spitfire will actually have to use to survive against the wunderwaffe of DCS :smilewink: I realy hope though that the 25lbs boost for Merlin 66 will translate into improved performance for V-1650-7 of the P-51D. Afterall, that power was only sutainable with 150oct fuel (44-1) and it is 81'hg of MAP :3 Edited February 10, 2016 by Solty [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA
Talisman_VR Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 The matter is not so simple: clipped wings Spit traded better roll rate for climb and turn rate. That's why LF type had both types of wings. Moreover - wingtips were shipped with clipped wings. Many thanks for your reply Yo-Yo. As I understand it, in comparison to the standard wing, at lower levels the clip wing allowed the following good things: Faster level speed. Faster acceleration. Faster dive. Faster roll rate (all altitudes). Stronger wings by removal of wingtips, permitting higher IAS to be used. Continued decent turn advantage over opposition. A more agile fighter overall in comparison to standard wing Spitfire. I also read that trial dog-fights conducted against a standard wing Spit at low level were won by the clip wing Spit. I think these may all be good historic reasons why the RAF needed most LF Spitfires to have clipped wings at the time. I very much hope that you are able to deliver us the clip wing Spitfire, which very much represents the historic version of the Spitfire that the RAF so badly needed at the time. Substance over looks was required in 1944/45. Happy landings, Talisman
Cripple Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 I'd rather have the high level performance myself, as Reg designed them. Leave the ground pounding to the Hurricanes. :P You are also looking at (from the pilot's notes, AP 1565 J,K &L) a higher stalling speed with "clipped" wings. A value of 3-6mph at all loads is quoted. My *new* AV-8B sim-pit build thread: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3901589 The old Spitfire sim-pit build thread circa '16/17: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=143452
Talisman_VR Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 I'd rather have the high level performance myself, as Reg designed them. Leave the ground pounding to the Hurricanes. :P You are also looking at (from the pilot's notes, AP 1565 J,K &L) a higher stalling speed with "clipped" wings. A value of 3-6mph at all loads is quoted. Hi Cripple, The thing is we are getting the Low Fighter version from later in the war, so why cripple it with the wing that is not optimised for low level (see what I did there, LOL). Give it the Low Fighter optimised clip wing. As for stall speed, perhaps you are afraid you cannot handle it :P Perhaps DCS are worried that people will find the clip wing too hard to handle; however, I think it provides an interesting prospect and perhaps a refreshing challenge from the standard Spitfire fair we tend to get with flight simulators. Happy landings, Talisman
ED Team NineLine Posted February 10, 2016 ED Team Posted February 10, 2016 Or even better, give us both and let us figure it out :) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Hummingbird Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 The standard eliptical Spitfire has quite heavy aileron's, very similar to the Bf109, at high speeds, but at the same time it has very light elevator. But eliptical wing has also an advantage of beeing more stable during turning at low speeds and has higher stalling speed which improves sustained turning, a thing that Spitfire will actually not have to use to survive against the Underwaffe of DCS :smilewink: There, corrected that for you.
Hummingbird Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Many thanks for your reply Yo-Yo. As I understand it, in comparison to the standard wing, at lower levels the clip wing allowed the following good things: Faster level speed. Faster acceleration. Faster dive. Faster roll rate (all altitudes). Stronger wings by removal of wingtips, permitting higher IAS to be used. Continued decent turn advantage over opposition. A more agile fighter overall in comparison to standard wing Spitfire. I also read that trial dog-fights conducted against a standard wing Spit at low level were won by the clip wing Spit. I think these may all be good historic reasons why the RAF needed most LF Spitfires to have clipped wings at the time. I very much hope that you are able to deliver us the clip wing Spitfire, which very much represents the historic version of the Spitfire that the RAF so badly needed at the time. Substance over looks was required in 1944/45. Happy landings, Talisman Clipping the wings will hurt turn rate more than you think, and in reality probably to the point where it wouldn't have an advantage in turn rate over the 109 anymore. As all current pilots who fly both birds have said, these two birds are very close in this regard. Thus I say give it the full wings, or at least give people the option to choose. But perhaps I shouldn't care I guess, not until they fix the other prop aircraft at least.
NRG-Vampire Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Clipping the wings will hurt turn rate more than you think, and in reality probably to the point where it wouldn't have an advantage in turn rate over the 109 anymore. As all current pilots who fly both birds have said, these two birds are very close in this regard. Thus I say give it the full wings, or at least give people the option to choose. But perhaps I shouldn't care I guess, not until they fix the other prop aircraft at least. yep, eliptical wings gave better turn rate but clipped wings gave better roll rate (catching up roll rate of focke-wulf) i would like to see spits with both wing shapes :thumbsup:
DD_Fenrir Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 Beware putting too much stock in the LF designation regarding the Mk.IX... In the Mk.V the LF denoted aircraft fitted with the Merlin 45 with cropped supercharger impellor which generated its max power below 15,000ft, a true low altitude modification. This however is not true of the Mk.IX. The LF here designates the Merlin 66 equipped aircraft and this differed from the Merlin 61 (F Mk.IX designation) by having the supercharger gears cut in at altitude bands that made it more competitive with the Fw190A; with the Merlin 61 there was an altitude band, 15,000-23,000ft at which the Fw was still faster and out-climbed the F.Mk.IX so in order to close this disparity it was decided to adjust the supercharger settings to eliminate this gap, however a gain at this altitude band meant a slight drop in performance above 25,000ft - hence the Merlin 66. Ultimately the Merlin 66 equipped aircraft still had a top speed of 407 m.p.h. at 22,000 ft. Not exactly a low fighter really.... Wing tips were removed as an aid to increase roll rate to reduce the Fw190s advantage and also apparently by some 2nd TAF units in an effort to reduce skin wrinkling on the top wing skins when pilots were pulling out of dive bombing runs either too energetically or not releasing the bombs early enough.
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted February 11, 2016 Author ED Team Posted February 11, 2016 yep, eliptical wings gave better turn rate but clipped wings gave better roll rate (catching up roll rate of focke-wulf) i would like to see spits with both wing shapes :thumbsup: I am afraid that somebody will ask an option to switch between wing types during a sortie... Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me
Paradox Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 I am afraid that somebody will ask an option to switch between wing types during a sortie... A bit like the Bearcat with its exploding wingtip "safety" feature that I don't think made it onto production Bearcats :lol:
MiloMorai Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 A bit like the Bearcat with its exploding wingtip "safety" feature that I don't think made it onto production Bearcats :lol: They did. One problem that became evident in service was the snap-off wing tips not working as expected. While they worked well under carefully controlled conditions in flight and on the ground, in the field, where aircraft were repetitively stressed by landing on carriers and since the wings were slightly less carefully made in the factories, there was a possibility that only one wingtip would break away with the possibility of the aircraft crashing. This was replaced with an explosives system to blow the wing tips off together, which also worked well, but this ended when a ground technician died due to an accidental triggering.
Talisman_VR Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 All these gifts: Faster level speed. Faster acceleration. Faster dive. Faster roll rate (all altitudes). Stronger wings by removal of wingtips, permitting higher IAS to be used. Continued decent turn advantage over opposition. A more agile fighter overall in comparison to standard wing Spitfire. Trial dog-fights conducted against a standard wing Spit at low level were won by the clip wing Spit. With a slight reduction in turn, but still a WINNING turn performance, and people want to say no thanks :lol: Am I reading the correct forum? People saying they actually want an aircraft with less performance for combat :helpsmilie: No, it cannot be :megalol: But, yes, it is. There's now't stranger than folk. The things people do for looks :( Happy landings, Talisman
Kurfürst Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 With a slight reduction in turn, but still a WINNING turn performance, and people want to say no thanks :lol: Am I reading the correct forum? People saying they actually want an aircraft with less performance for combat :helpsmilie: No, it cannot be :megalol: But, yes, it is. There's now't stranger than folk. The things people do for looks :( Happy landings, Talisman Yet for some reason actual WW2 RAF Spitfire pilots were not all that enthusiastic about the clipped wing variant. The modificiation was supposed to counter the Fw 190s great superiority in roll, yet it practice it just didn't bring the plane on par with the 190, but at the same time degraded its best advantages over it. It was niche modification, that's get hyped all over whereas in reality it did not see much use in operations due to its overall impracticality, except where structural issues with the wing while carrying bombs necessitated it. http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.
Reflected Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Yet for some reason actual WW2 RAF Spitfire pilots were not all that enthusiastic about the clipped wing variant. The modification was supposed to counter the Fw 190s great superiority in roll, yet it practice it just didn't bring the plane on par with the 190, but at the same time degraded its best advantages over it. . Precisely. I remember reading just the same in Pierre Clostermann`s "Le Grande Cirque". These Spits earned their nickname "clipped, cropped, clapped". The RAF pilots weren`t happy with the results at all. Quite understandably so. Imagine you are facing the 190. You have the option to sit in a plane that is not as fast, and rolls worse, but can easily outturn it. Or option b: you have a plane that is almost as fast, and rolls almost as well as the 190 (still worse though), but now you can`t even outturn it? Edited February 11, 2016 by Reflected Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord
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