uboats Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) A little F-15C AFM update - 7 December 2013 We've been hard at work on the new advanced flight model for the F-15C and each day we are getting a little closer. Unlike past AFM projects, this one has been a little different because of the characteristics of the Control Augmentation System (CAS). In particular how yaw, pitch and roll are blended under different flight conditions. In fact, to better help debug the system, we now have the ability to manually toggle each of the three CAS channels off and on (as indicated on the caution and warning panel). The flight characteristic differences are quite dramatic! Before this could happen though, there was a lot of tuning of the center of gravity of the aircraft. This has a huge affect on pitch and takeoff/landing performance. We are now at the stage of tuning the CAS blending to give the DCS Eagle its unique feel based on feedback from our Eagle driver SME and a large number of performance benchmarks. In fact, our F-15 SME had commented that the DCS F-15C has superior flight modeling in many ways to the 3 million dollar trainer. I think many of you will be quite surprised how maneuverable the Eagle can be at slow speeds and high angles of attacks. With the huge rudders, it can perform all sorts of awesome at slow speeds using a lot of rudder input. We've also added separate wheel brake axis this week for the Eagle. In several ways, this work will act as a foundation for future DCS aircraft AFMs. As mentioned in an earlier message though, this work has equated to more time and this project will not be ready in time to be released with the 1.2.7 update. However, we think the additional work / time will be well worth the wait. In regards to AFM, this is how we generally define it: The aircraft's dynamics are always calculated on the basis of the same physics equations describing translational and rotational motion of a solid body under the influence of external forces and moments disregarding the nature of their origin. The center-of-gravity can change its location within the speed axis system. When calculating aerodynamics characteristics, the plane is represented as a combination of airframe components (fuselage, outer wing panel, stabilizer, etc). Separate calculations of aerodynamics characteristics are performed for each of the above named components in the entire range of local angles of attack and sliding (including super-critical), local dynamic pressure and Mach number taking into consideration deviation and grade of destruction of control instruments and some airframe components. This is the basic definition, but not limited to, what we use to define a DCS aircraft with an AFM. Further detail can be added to include dynamic engine operation, sub-system modeling, fluid dynamics, and damage modeling. None of this must equate to a mouse-clickable cockpit. As such, the definition of an AFM can be a bit broad and encompass products ranging from the the Su-25T to the A-10C. Matt ----------------------- updated by Matt I forgot to mention... the team has also added both low and high gain for nose wheel steering for the updated F-15C. Another item we are working on is better sound for the Eagle to include more accurate OWS tones and buffet / "Eagle Roar". ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sounds nice Edited December 9, 2013 by uboats [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] My DCS Mods, Skins, Utilities and Scripts | Windows 10 | i7-4790K | GTX 980Ti Hybrid | 32GB RAM | 3TB SSD | | TM Warthog Stick | CH Pro Throttle + Pro Pedal | TIR5 Pro | TM MFD Cougar | Gun Camera: PrtScn |
dumgrunt Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 "worth the wait" it will be indeed :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
SyntaxError Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 I can't wait for this. It's going to be incredible! F/A-18C - A-10C - FC3 - L-39C/ZA - Ka-50 - UH-1H - Mi-8MTV2 - F-86F - Spitfire - P-51D - P-47D - BF-109K - CA
Esac_mirmidon Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 I hope this F-15C improved AFM could be a milestone for the Su-27. Very promising the CAS AFM code, taking in count the great difficult of coding FBW on the Flanker, AoA and G limiter, proportional SAU stick movement. I´m very interested in how all this efforts would bring us this AFM "Plus" for Eagles and Flankers. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
GGTharos Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 The CAS and the flanker's FBW are pretty similar things. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
pj Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 DCS World and its modules just keep getting better! Win 10, Gigabyte Aorus Ultra with i5 9600KF @ 4.6GHz, 32G DDR4 3200 RAM, GTX 1070, TrackIR 5, TM Warthog stick on VPC Warbird base, Warthog Throttle for jets & helis, CH Throttle Quadrant for props, CH Pro Pedals, 500GB SSDs for installed sims :gun_smilie:
NRG-Vampire Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 We are now at the stage of tuning the CAS blending to give the DCS Eagle its unique feel based on feedback from our Eagle driver SME and a large number of performance benchmarks. In fact, our F-15 SME had commented... sounds wonderful :thumbup: only one thing i cant get - what does that "SME" means ? ^ thanks
Esac_mirmidon Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 The CAS and the flanker's FBW are pretty similar things. This is why i´m very confident with ED´s work on this AFM. Great feelings about not only F-15C flight model but also the Su-27, taking in count the hard work a SAS-FBW system would need to be coded. If actual work with SAS system and other coding would stand a new base for other AFM modules and could benefit Flankers and new projects i´m more than happy with it. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
derelor Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 sounds wonderful :thumbup: only one thing i cant get - what does that "SME" means ? ^ thanks subject matter expert 1338 - beyond leet ED Forum rules EN|DE|RU
NRG-Vampire Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 subject matter expert ah, cool, thanks :doh: :bounce: i like experts :)
Raven68 Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 Any word on the AFM for the Su-27? I thought the work on these two air frames were being done in parallel, but there is nothing being said on this at all! Intel i5-9600K @ 3.7GHz; Gigabyte Z370XP SLI Mobo; G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4080 16GB 256-Bit GDDR6; Thermaltake Water 3.0 Certified Liquid Cooling System Windows 11 Professional HP Reverb G2 /TrackIR 5 in case VR dies; Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog w/ Thrustmaster T-Flight Rudder Pedals
GGTharos Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 Which means there is no word on it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
piXel496 Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 The aircraft's dynamics are always calculated on the basis of the same physics equations describing translational and rotational motion of a solid body under the influence of external forces and moments disregarding the nature of their origin. Nice formulation of words forming a complete statement. :) . old stuff I made
ED Team NineLine Posted December 7, 2013 ED Team Posted December 7, 2013 Great news, not sure why the CAS system has to be tuned. The FCS and CAS systems are described in painstaking detail in many NASA documents via formulas and block diagrams, I'm sure I've posted links before to relevant docs. Should just be a matter of coding per the diagrams, but oh wells. Looking forward to it! Have you had any luck creating anything that didnt need any tuning? :) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
gavagai Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 So, will this F-15 have complete avionics like the A-10C? Or will it still be the flaming cliffs F-15 but with a better FM? P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria
cichlidfan Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 So, will this F-15 have complete avionics like the A-10C? Or will it still be the flaming cliffs F-15 but with a better FM? The latter. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
Paradox Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 So, will this F-15 have complete avionics like the A-10C? Or will it still be the flaming cliffs F-15 but with a better FM? The latter. I'm hoping that one day we'll see a clickable cockpit for it.
blackbelter Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 No word on the Su-27 AFM... More waiting... But still it's good news... I hope with all this experience, the development of Flanker's AFM will be much faster.
Nate--IRL-- Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Guys i don't own flamming cliff so i would like to know the level of details of the radar modes. Radar training Vid, should have the info you want. 9J8m7SEATyM Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading
lunaticfringe Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 F-15 fans: if you do not currently own rudder pedals (and I know a lot of folks don't), ask Santa. You'll want them.
leafer Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 This is the module I'm most excited about. Cannot wait! ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P
cichlidfan Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 This is the module I'm most excited about. Cannot wait! Agreed. This is why I own FC3, not that there is anything wrong with the other aircraft but... ;) ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
lunaticfringe Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Another question, the F15 version which is C if i'm not wrong are used only for air superiority only so does not do any sort of ground attack right? It can, although the USAF has never used the dumb munition release options of the non-F-15E airframes operationally; thus, it's not something that's really useful to model. Wouldn't *mind* access to it for mission building purposes (WWIII 1986), but won't complain if it never becomes available.
Azrayen Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 So, will this F-15 have complete avionics like the A-10C? Or will it still be the flaming cliffs F-15 but with a better FM? The latter. I'm hoping that one day we'll see a clickable cockpit for it. The latter... for now. ;) A DCS: F-15C (meaning: with "complete avionics like the A-10C") is due (*) to happen somewhere down the road (don't hold your breath, though, it's a long stretch). (*) Also remember: Everything is subject to... :smartass:
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