Pilot G Tolerance too low?

I am loving the F-16 so far, even with all it's current bugs and shortcomings.

However, I find it strange that you can pretty much never pull more than 7.5-8 gs without blacking out, even full G-LOC. I have G effects in game set to "simulation", as I want extreme maneuvering to be punished, but it feels way too restrictive in the Viper.

I read in an old book called "Combat Aircraft: F-16" by Doug Richardson the following:

"In conventional cockpits, pilots often experience tunnel vision - commonly known as grey-out - at levels of around 6 or 7g, but the semi-reclining seat of the F-16 seems to extend this limit by up to 2g. Aviation Week's Robert Ropelewski noted no vision problems at manoeuvres of 8g or more, despite having had grey-out at around 7g in other aircraft"

I haven't been able to really reach the design limit of 9g, as the pilot will fall asleep before you even reach it.

What do you think?

PS: I know you can turn off g effects in game, but that feels too unrealistic in the other direction. Also, most multiplayer servers have g-effects enabled in my experience.

I have no problem to get my pilot to sustain 9.0G in smooth, controlled turn at corner speed; he's close to blacking out, but still very manageable.

after 8 g's the pilot blackout in few seconds

I have no problem to get my pilot to sustain 9.0G in smooth, controlled turn at corner speed; he's close to blacking out, but still very manageable.

How much of a turn can you sustain in 9g? I can only do maybe 70-90 degrees and I have to stop turning or I'll black out completely

Howe long time can a human stay at 9gs?

G tolerance in DCS has always been that of a heart patient, regardless of the warm-up.

Many videos of both centrifuge and airshows are a testimony that fighter pilots can withstand 9g for longer than what we have in DCS. G-resistance should also be higher in the beginning, and degrade as the vistual pilot becomes "tired", unless given time to recover.

They should overhaul it as a whole, and give the Viper an extra level of tolerance due to the reclined seat.

My 2 cents.

Howe long time can a human stay at 9gs?

Don't forget that we are not fighters pilots and we don't wear G suits in our houses

so expect slight lower values in G tolerance.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23926661

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/591467

The problem is that everyone is different. Even pilots. So there is no one set value to be implemented in order to make a perfect simulation.

The problem is that everyone is different. Even pilots. So there is no one set value to be implemented in order to make a perfect simulation.

Well, at the very least make the pilot average. Currently I feel our DCS dude would fail centrifuge training.

G tolerance in DCS has always been that of a heart patient, regardless of the warm-up.

Many videos of both centrifuge and airshows are a testimony that fighter pilots can withstand 9g for longer than what we have in DCS. G-resistance should also be higher in the beginning, and degrade as the vistual pilot becomes "tired", unless given time to recover.

They should overhaul it as a whole, and give the Viper an extra level of tolerance due to the reclined seat.

 

My 2 cents.

I fully agree with this.

Yes, this has to be simply and finally increased to more like 10-11G. Blacking out at 7-9G is simply not realistic.

Don't forget that we are not fighters pilots and we don't wear G suits in our houses

so expect slight lower values in G tolerance.

Lol, wut?

This is a paper where multiple different articles from different sources from different countries are put together on the topic of g protection and resistance. Should help inform us about how to better improve the G model in DCS.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a296761.pdf

Doesn't the USAF have standards on how much G and for how long a pilot must be able to pull?

Obviously many things can change the number but there must be a minimum training limit to pass right? If so why not just use that standard to define what we should be able to do in DCS?

Obviously this topic must be slightly subjective as G-tolerance varies widely per individual. I think it's fair to assume that the pilots simulated in DCS should be:

a) Trained to withstand g using the Hook manoeuvre (Anti-G Straining Maneuver (AGSM))

b) Be wearing anti-g suits

c) Be physiologically able to withstand high sustained g

Given the above 3 factors, there should be no problem sustaining 9g over a prolonged period (20 seconds or so) and higher g (9-12g) for shorter periods. DCS does not currently use these kinds of thresholds and I believe it should. It should not be that difficult programmatically to implement this.

Don't forget that we are not fighters pilots and we don't wear G suits in our houses

so expect slight lower values in G tolerance.

You failed to understand the point of simulation. Since you're not a fighter pilot how do you even play DCS?

You failed to understand the point of simulation. Since you're not a fighter pilot how do you even play DCS?

Exactly!

Blacking out at 7-9G is simply not realistic.

question ain't about G level, but the affect of the G forces.

Currently in DCS a virtual pilot can pull max G to point where only very small area of their vision at center of screen is visible. And then very quickly recover from it by little negative G.

What I would like to see are different effects than just dimming or red one.

Like how about the reported capabilities to see colors? To narrow field of view AND head direction?

Like how many can pull 5+ and still turn their heads around like nothing with combat helmet on? How many can pull high G and lean forward from their seat continually?

High G and read instruments at head up display without problems?

The DCS should simulate G forces effect based head direction and speed as well. So those who turn head to side, rear etc will blackout far sooner than those who look straight ahead. And make the pilot flight log to log in the hours as well G forces etc so "more experienced" pilot withstands more, and to withstand more you need to do "warmup" as well..

A average dcs pilot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0nbRYIBVDQ

You want a g simulator , not a flight simulator .

There's a lot of opinion and very little convincing science in this thread.

Further, which era pilot are we talking about an from which country?

There's a lot of opinion and very little convincing science in this thread.

 

Further, which era pilot are we talking about an from which country?

I can admit when I’m wrong, and my data above was wrong - it was 6g, not 9g, for 15 secs without a g suit.

However it seems counter-intuitive to me to build an entire aircraft around a 9g sustained turn capability if the pilot can only sustain 7.5g.

Anecdotally, much has been said about the Viper’s reclined seat and the additional G resistance it provides. I’m not sure we will find a source that tells us an exact number for how much extra resistance this provides, but I’m not convinced it is currently factored into the game.

However it seems counter-intuitive to me to build an entire aircraft around a 9g sustained turn capability

Like an F-15C?

if the pilot can only sustain 7.5g.

No one runs around sustaining 9g turns. Well, maybe raptors. The entire sustaining 9g thing is manufactured by flight simmers running gunzo matches with clean wings and low fuel.

Anecdotally, much has been said about the Viper’s reclined seat and the additional G resistance it provides. I’m not sure we will find a source that tells us an exact number for how much extra resistance this provides, but I’m not convinced it is currently factored into the game.

Non-anecdotally (although IIRC but yes, the sources are out there), real g protection requires at least 55 degrees on the reclined seat. 30 degrees like the viper's offers minimal additional tolerance.