July 2014 Update #1

[Snoopy]

And I've got to laugh at "print-ready PDF manual" Every DCS has a print-ready manual.

[ALDEGA]

I think it's safe to say a large majority of backers already own the Mustang, and those who do not, aren't interested in having it. I don't need or want a second copy of the Mustang.

Indeed.

 

cutting us short on digital copies of goods due to economics is a cop out. It costs nothing to create digital copies.

The main cost of a software product is the development, not distribution. If ED fulfilled RRG's pledges as is (even with digital copies only, no physical items) then they would make a significant loss.

[badaboom]

This is the best solution to a unfavorable financial situation for ED/DCS.The RRG KS Campaign was just unrealistic to create these aircraft at DCS PFM Level and sell them so cheap.I think a 60% discount on each module is more than fair.

 

This doesn't pertain to me but I feel backers who will not receive all flyables should be given a choice of which flyable they'd like.

[NineLine]

While I'm getting less that was promised, I completely understand the reasons and I'm fine with that.

 

That said, this would be a much easier pill to swallow if I could get my loyalty balance (that I was never able to use) back to contribute toward these purchases when they become available.

 

Be sure that ED didnt enter into this lightly... they are just as frustrated with having to be the "bad guys" in this, they really are trying to make this right and keep the project alive...

 

And again... I will remind people that the Normandy map will probably be priced around 39 to 49 (subject to change) so make sure you add that in to your calculations when adding up the value you are getting...

[NineLine]

And I've got to laugh at "print-ready PDF manual" Every DCS has a print-ready manual.

 

Trust me... none of them are print ready by print standards....

[Snoopy]

And again... I will remind people that the Normandy map will probably be priced around 39 to 49 (subject to change) so make sure you add that in to your calculations when adding up the value you are getting...

 

You are the first person to ever put a price on any EDGE map, so are you stating something official from ED or picking a number out of a hat? And please don't use the excuse "subject to change" because that phrase is tossed around way to often and lightly around here.

 

It is what it is but it is still stupid IMO to give a key for the P-51 to someone who already owns the product. Also no reason ED shouldn't allow us to choose the airframes we want.

 

It will all fall on def ears or my posts will get deleted so no reason to continue this debate from my perspective.

 

Trust me... none of them are print ready by print standards....

 

Funny I never had an issue printing the manuals.

[Siq6Six]

I understand the biggest cost is development. Which is why regular prices are $50. Which is why everybody else who didn't back the kickstarter will be stuck paying full price or waiting for them to go on sale.

 

Make them account bound, do something special in place of the rewards that were multiple copies. However in this case they're skimping us on 2-3 planes. We were shorted 1 plane, most of us have the mustang and A LOT of you got the Dora.

 

Why even do this switch on us anyway? Why are we getting the Dora & Mustang? Why not start with planes we backed? Oh, because they still need to be developed? Ok. I'll wait.

[komemiute]

You are the first person to ever put a price on any EDGE map, so are you stating something official from ED or picking a number out of a hat? And please don't use the excuse "subject to change" because that phrase is tossed around way to often and lightly around here.

 

It is what it is but it is still stupid IMO to give a key for the P-51 to someone who already owns the product. Also no reason ED shouldn't allow us to choose the airframes we want.

 

It will all fall on def ears or my posts will get deleted so no reason to continue this debate from my perspective.

 

 

 

Funny I never had an issue printing the manuals.

 

They'll have two remove two sets of posts.

I'm not happy and most of all not convinced by this move.

 

Questions:

 

How big is the map?

Does it make full use of EDGE?

How realistic/detailed it is?

 

And I printed all the manuals for the modules I have with no problems either...

[Paganus]

My first reaction upon reading the update is...

 

This stinks!

 

I just went from all aircraft to 1 I already own and 1 I'm not that interested in. If Ed is setting the backer price at $20 per plane, they should at least have allowed us to select the planes we want and don't already own.

 

Better yet they should refund the KS, since they can't fulfill the obligations, and start over.

 

Sorry Sith, you better suit up!

[NineLine]

I asked for a rough estimate on the value of the maps. So yes, its official, and subject to change...

 

As for the manuals... you can print anything... doesnt mean it is print ready... I personally did a ton of work to the A-10C manual to make it look good (size, bleed, ect). Sure you can print it...

 

You are the first person to ever put a price on any EDGE map, so are you stating something official from ED or picking a number out of a hat? And please don't use the excuse "subject to change" because that phrase is tossed around way to often and lightly around here.

 

It is what it is but it is still stupid IMO to give a key for the P-51 to someone who already owns the product. Also no reason ED shouldn't allow us to choose the airframes we want.

 

It will all fall on def ears or my posts will get deleted so no reason to continue this debate from my perspective.

 

 

 

Funny I never had an issue printing the manuals.

[komemiute]

 

Why even do this switch on us anyway? Why are we getting the Dora & Mustang? Why not start with planes we backed? Oh, because they still need to be developed? Ok. I'll wait.

 

Good point. By the time the only plane I want (P47) it's going to be released, and I'll gladly wait for it- eve without print ready pdf manual- its cost it's pretty much absorbed by the plethora of people who didn't trust the Kickstarter (hard to snicker at them now) and are so happy to buy the module first hand, counting in also the new great bonus system!

[Psyrixx]

Just my $0.02...

 

As a backer who will be receiving all aircraft (so I don't have to worry about what modules I end up getting two of), I do think it makes sense to allow people to decide which module they want a key for. Not to confuse matters in the rewards listing, but instead of P-51 just say "module of your choice" and be done with it.

 

ED/RRG/Whoever were already going to make the modules anyway, regardless of how many people planned on purchasing them after the fact. Everyone who already wants the Mustang already has it (myself included... but that didn't stop me from pledging an irresponsible amount to help the project succeed ;)) and a module is a module. If people want to pass on the Mustang, just give them a key for something else.

 

As I said, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. But it shouldn't be too hard to, as suggested, allow people to just make their selection(s) in their ED Account Profile and distribute whatever modules they desire. It's a very small effort to make a larger portion of backers very happy.

 

In fact, that seems to be the only sticking point I've seen in this thread so far. So in theory that one change would provide 100% Kickstarter consumer satisfaction.

 

And if it's a matter of not wanting to code up a back-end/front-end to handle the module selection, I'll even volunteer my own time to get it done.

 

If it's a "business decision", then it's out of my hands, but I want to at least throw the option out there if it's something that is just not being discussed because of perceived effort required by a team that's already pushing very very hard to finish a rather large and unexpected project that has been sort of dumped on their lap.

 

As several people have already expressed, the fact that the backers are getting anything is incredibly awesome and I'm not here to try and stoke the fire. Just looking to put in the opinion of someone who isn't directly affected by the desire for a module that he won't be getting (since my backer level gets me all of them).

[Buzzles]

Faced with the prospect of having no DCS WWII at all or getting the Dora and the Normandy map for my $40, I'll take the latter.

 

To be honest, $40 for what was promised on KS was far too good to be true anyway.

 

In terms of value against the normal DCS modules, all the reward tiers seem rather good value anyway at basically $20 per aircraft vs $50 for a "normal" aircraft.

 

 

EDIT: For the couple of people asking for refunds...that's fine. I suggest you contact Luthier1 and ask him. As far as I understand ED legally don't have to give you anything as the KS contract wasn't with them.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Buzzles

[komemiute]

Just my $0.02...

 

As a backer who will be receiving all aircraft (so I don't have to worry about what modules I end up getting two of), I do think it makes sense to allow people to decide which module they want a key for. Not to confuse matters in the rewards listing, but instead of P-51 just say "module of your choice" and be done with it.

 

ED/RRG/Whoever were already going to make the modules anyway, regardless of how many people planned on purchasing them after the fact. Everyone who already wants the Mustang already has it (myself included... but that didn't stop me from pledging an irresponsible amount to help the project succeed ;)) and a module is a module. If people want to pass on the Mustang, just give them a key for something else.

 

As I said, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. But it shouldn't be too hard to, as suggested, allow people to just make their selection(s) in their ED Account Profile and distribute whatever modules they desire. It's a very small effort to make a larger portion of backers very happy.

 

In fact, that seems to be the only sticking point I've seen in this thread so far. So in theory that one change would provide 100% Kickstarter consumer satisfaction.

 

And if it's a matter of not wanting to code up a back-end/front-end to handle the module selection, I'll even volunteer my own time to get it done.

 

If it's a "business decision", then it's out of my hands, but I want to at least throw the option out there if it's something that is just not being discussed because of perceived effort required by a team that's already pushing very very hard to finish a rather large and unexpected project that has been sort of dumped on their lap.

 

As several people have already expressed, the fact that the backers are getting anything is incredibly awesome and I'm not here to try and stoke the fire. Just looking to put in the opinion of someone who isn't directly affected by the desire for a module that he won't be getting (since my backer level gets me all of them).

 

 

Now this is talking.

Give this man a Cigar.

 

Unfortunately I can't momentarily rep you up from mobile. I'll be all over it ASAP.

[P1KW]

$40-$59

Bronze Backer credit in manuals

DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual

Normandy Map

DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual

 

 

The Mustang is essentially a freebie: Every backer is gaining a product per $20, the cheapest flyables tier at $40 getting the FW and Map at $20 apiece.

 

It's a bargain all-round as far as I am concerned.

 

I do not want to pay $ 20 for a map, or I give away a plane for which I paid, (since beta).

 

Understand their business reasons, and I will continue to support ED, but as a consumer I am compelled to say that I feel cheated.

 

For my part, between each other (?) Have mowed my trust in any KS project.

Unfortunate, bad for everyone, developers and customers.

 

I'd rather pay $ 60 for a product, as in the A-10C beta, and know what I pay.

 

In my personal inventory, I paid $ 40 for Dora, and so happy. The road to get here has been, strange, weird, unique, special, theatrical? Well! Anyway, I have the Dora.

 

I hopefully next buy it for the usual channel. I hope.

 

Greetings!

[Silver_Dragon]

Why now are marketed as first options the P-51D and the Fw-190D-9, when most of those who contributed, we were going by the aircrafts of the Kickstarter project? (P-47, Bf-109K, Spitfire, Me-262), Would not it be better to leave the P-51D and Fw -190 as last option above, knowing that many have bought or would you buy regardless of WW2? That disappointed many people.

[txmtb]

Basically since I own the P-51, and all other modules except MI-8, I payed full price for 1 plane. Don't count the map as it's not something I necessarily would purchase and had nothing to do with backing the project. So any "rewards" for backing are gone.

[Jeesus]

I agree with the things mentioned 100 times above, as the modules are no longer going to be separate from DCS world, having the P51 included in reward tiers has no valid reason IMHO.

 

I really appreciate the effort that has been put into reworking this "disaster" , but maybe give the option to choose modules, and only change the available number of selections per tier is a much viable option I think.

 

At the end of the day as all of these aircraft have more or less the same amount of development workload (similar complexity of FM and SM) and I assume the prices of modules are going to be more or less close to each other, having the option to select makes no economic harm to ED but make every upset backer happier.

[Grim_Smiles]

Well I lost the Me-262, but I can live with buying her at a later date. Worst news for me would have been to hear that the project wouldn't happen at all. As for the compromise, I can understand ED's position and I can also understand people getting upset. Bad situation all around:(. I really wish the KS rewards had been better thought out originally when this started, would have avoided all this, but nothing to be done about it now.

[Siq6Six]

It is what it is but it is still stupid IMO to give a key for the P-51 to someone who already owns the product. Also no reason ED shouldn't allow us to choose the airframes we want.

 

While I disagree with the method, honestly the reasoning is clear. On paper they cut 1 plane & gave us 2. It fools enough to feel like they still get something.

 

In reality, they cut 1, they gave us a cheap consolation prize (mustang) and we got 1 plane. Which - for anybody who hadn't purchased it already - was likely to wait for it to go on sale (read: less than $40). The planes we actually pledged for and are waiting for, will be sold at full price.... Unless we wait even longer for them to go on sale as well.

 

If things really play out like this - ill likely not purchase another module unless it's heavily discounted - and even then I'd have my reservations. These WWII planes wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for the interest & backing of the Kickstarters.

[agrasyuk]

 

Better yet they should refund the KS, since they can't fulfill the obligations, and start over.

 

Sorry Sith, you better suit up!

 

Why? ED didn't run the KS and didn't get any of your money - they don't have ANY obligations in this.

[NineLine]

Their goal was to make the rewards reasonable financially as well as simplifying a extremely complex reward system. I doubt it has anything to do with being able to code a drop down or anything like that... its about the health of the project and keeping it manageable...

[[DBS]TH0R]

I guess this was inevitable. At least this matrix looks solid and that ED can pull it off.

 

20$ for any future module is fine by me. As long as they get done. That is all I care for now.

[ALDEGA]

having the option to select makes no economic harm to ED but make every upset backer happier.

Since many backers have most likely already purchased the P-51, the loss of (potential) profit of the P-51 is much lower than that of an unreleased module. It makes sense, economically.

[dburne]

Well to be honest I was never really clear what I was going to get with the money I backed with, as I found it all really confusing. Based on what I am reading in this update, at least it is much clearer to me - although I already have the P-51, but that is ok.