Su-27 Open-Beta chit-chat and first impressions!

[Weta43]

The plane can get to mach 2.5. However it it fuel dependent. At 40k your practical top speed varies because as fuel load decreases the aircraft becomes very unstable and micro oscillations occur. Assuming you burned fuel getting to altitude, and did not spawn at 40k, and accounting for fuel needed to accelerate, your top speed is going to be less than 1460knots. The Flanker is very fuel hungry as well, so chances are it will be alot less than that.

 

Hi (not picking on you, just passing on info :) ),

 

Just tried with the open beta.

Take-off with full fuel load, climb to 18000m level out.

 

Passed 17546 m @ 2500 km/h (1350 knots), decreased rate of climb and slowly climbed to 18000m and trimmed to level.

 

Note - not using the AP to hold altitude.

 

Didn't record the speed as I reached 18000m, but once level the plane accelerated as fuel load decreased, speed at 1800kg = 1450 knots , speed at 800kg =1469 knots speed at 500kg = 1503knots (can't expect to see anyone do that in real life, 500kg of fuel at 18000m = gliding home + thermal issues )

 

Seems the issue you describe where speed drops with decreasing fuel load is more likely an issue with the altitude AP hold than the FM.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Weta43

[Nedum]

reading through this thread is quite amusing, People bagging out the trim and the way the aircraft pulls in 'said' direction

 

How many people on these forums have actually flown the real thing? Only real pilots of this bird should pass the judgment, not keyboard warriors who assume how the bird should handle.

 

When I ask 'flown the real thing' I mean, you took off, flew a pattern and landed. Proof would be video (go pro) with radio coms and spoken english between tower and pilot

 

Anyone who has flown a 210 or similar species of Cessna need not comment.

 

So you ask the tester team?

No?

Hmm.. let's think about this funny situation? :lol:

[Kenan]

Apart from using the "S" key which makes it go nuts, Su-27 PFM flies quite nicely for me, takes a bit getting used to but that's it.

[26-J39]

A fresh option here (only read some of the posts in this thread but am aware of some re: inverted flat spins ) .

Not bad overall IMO and similar to what I was expecting.. but what I didn't expect was the MASSIVE & constant task to trim the aircraft just to get some nice lines.

 

A few hours ago I thought I'd go for a high altitude flight, flew her smooth up to about 50-60k (can't rem exactly), got into a stall situation where I was basically doing a cobra for what seemed like forever. At this point I have no control whatsoever and get caught in a very slow inverted flat spin. Ok then! Tried every trick in the book to recover but nothing is working, hit "S" key, trying to yank it or "yo-yo" the pitch attitude, still can't pull out of it, finally at about 5k somehow regain control and pull out of the death spiral.. Well that was crazy!!! Although it was one of the most exciting spin & recoveries I've done in DCS something just doesn't seem right. Just my opinion anyway.

 

Overall tho the FM it's pretty impressive considering the task of trying to model such an airframe. Thanks ED keep up the good work.. :)

[Rogue Trooper]

Flew it all last night.

It really is a nice flight model.

Forward Trim is weird but once I got used to it I could quickly trim her level and at all speeds.

 

Shame this was not the first Jet fighter PFM.

[Nedum]

Inverted flat spins till death are now "normal" with this PFM, but I can't believe that this is right.

If I eject, the plane often turns magical in the normal flight postion and the engines cumming up.

Even with full AB I can't left this flat inverted spin and sometimes I fall down with the nose to earth an even then I have no chance to get the controls back.

It feels like the Su27 is hooked up at something, like a magical wire... :music_whistling:

[Kwiatek]

How Su27 shoulda fly :

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=272495789475221

[Exorcet]

How Su27 shoulda fly :

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=272495789475221

If ours had TVC and canards. If you want a fair comparison, use the right type.

 

One thing you might be able to do with videos and look at the tail and see what kind of motion it's going through during the Cobra, maybe it will reveal the proper technique to performing the maneuver without disaster.

[BIGNEWY]

post your tracks.

 

Flying fine for me and enjoying every minute of it. :)

[SFJackBauer]

Anyone who has flown a 210 or similar species of Cessna need not comment.

 

I think that even someone who has flown a Cessna would understand better how to fly the Su-27 with PFM than someone who hasn't.

 

It all boils down to understand the aircraft envelope, aero characteristics, longitudinal stability, trimming etc. The improved FMs remove the "on-rails" flying once you depart regular conditions, but if you respect the aircraft (as you would do if your ass were in the line, if you were in the cockpit), I dont see how you can have any problems at all with this PFM.

[karambiatos]

If ours had TVC and canards. If you want a fair comparison, use the right type.

 

One thing you might be able to do with videos and look at the tail and see what kind of motion it's going through during the Cobra, maybe it will reveal the proper technique to performing the maneuver without disaster.

http://youtu.be/ccTJrxVqw9g?t=5m6s

 

heres a clip from the inside, i tried doing similar stick movements at differing speeds.

 

From what i can understand the pilot keeps pulling the stick until the plane stops going backwards and then he slightly pushes the stick forward, and then centers it, the plane pretty much stabilizes its self on its own.

 

now when i tried that in game, it doesnt look very pretty, i also gain quite a bit of altitude, now ive managed to do a cobra (or at least i think its one), but the stick movement needs to be much more erratic looking to not nosedive the airplane.

Maybe the actual pilot only disables the pitch stabilization and keeps the rest of them on.

[NineLine]

It might take some time to master, but also remember your stick and his stick are not created equal...

 

http://youtu.be/ccTJrxVqw9g?t=5m6s

 

heres a clip from the inside, i tried doing similar stick movements at differing speeds.

 

From what i can understand the pilot keeps pulling the stick until the plane stops going backwards and then he slightly pushes the stick forward, and then centers it, the plane pretty much stabilizes its self on its own.

 

now when i tried that in game, it doesnt look very pretty, i also gain quite a bit of altitude, now ive managed to do a cobra (or at least i think its one), but the stick movement needs to be much more erratic looking to not nosedive the airplane.

Maybe the actual pilot only disables the pitch stabilization and keeps the rest of them on.

[cichlidfan]

It might take some time to master, but also remember your stick and his stick are not created equal...

 

The physical sensory input available to the RL pilot also makes a huge difference in timing.

[Nedum]

post your tracks.

 

Flying fine for me and enjoying every minute of it. :)

 

You can find the tracks @ posting #123 + 124

[unknwn]

FM feels slow to react, very inertive nose, hard to perform quick and snappy movements.

Also quite unstable/wobbly, sensitive controls making hard to fly in a straight line (does it have stability control similar to f15, because it feels quite ineffective?).

Total opposite of f15 and not really a joy to fly (thought high aoa is fun).

Edited November 8, 2014 by unknwn

[Exorcet]

http://youtu.be/ccTJrxVqw9g?t=5m6s

 

heres a clip from the inside, i tried doing similar stick movements at differing speeds.

 

From what i can understand the pilot keeps pulling the stick until the plane stops going backwards and then he slightly pushes the stick forward, and then centers it, the plane pretty much stabilizes its self on its own.

 

now when i tried that in game, it doesnt look very pretty, i also gain quite a bit of altitude, now ive managed to do a cobra (or at least i think its one), but the stick movement needs to be much more erratic looking to not nosedive the airplane.

Maybe the actual pilot only disables the pitch stabilization and keeps the rest of them on.

 

It might take some time to find the right technique, especially considering some of the variables between [beta] sim and reality. I can't give much feedback on the flight model as for some reason I can't get the PFM to actually install/load/whatever.

 

The F-15 was not exactly spot on when it first released.

 

FM feels slow to react, very inertive nose, hard to perform quick and snappy movements.

Also quite unstable/wobbly, sensitive controls making hard to fly in a straight line (does it have stability control similar to f15, because it feels quite ineffective?).

Total opposite of f15 and not really a joy to fly (thought high aoa is fun).

Remember, on initial release the F-15 was pulling 20 g, had no kind of yaw control, would go into rolls well under critical AoA, and had a CAS that would point the plane away from straight and level under some conditions. The Flanker will probably undergo a similar step by step tweaking.

[karambiatos]

It might take some time to find the right technique, especially considering some of the variables between [beta] sim and reality. I can't give much feedback on the flight model as for some reason I can't get the PFM to actually install/load/whatever.

 

The F-15 was not exactly spot on when it first released.

 

i know, im not complaining im just saying what ive experienced.

[unknwn]

Remember, on initial release the F-15 was pulling 20 g, had no kind of yaw control, would go into rolls well under critical AoA, and had a CAS that would point the plane away from straight and level under some conditions. The Flanker will probably undergo a similar step by step tweaking.

That is true, however F15 felt better i would say. Yawing and rolling to sides (even without high AoA) was the most annoying.

Though F15 still enters roll at high AoA if you reach that (pitch control off).

 

I was expecting to see new AFM close to release, but I am wrong :)

Edited November 8, 2014 by unknwn

[Davee]

. . . . .

Today the Su27 was falling down from ~12.000 Meters to ~2.000 meters with the nose to earth and AB @ ~ 280 km/h.

And all the time if the Su27 stalls, she flips on the back.

If I pull at the stick, there is nearly no response, but after a little time the full input comes in and the Su27 is turning extrem hard and I have again no response with my stick.

. . . . .

 

Yes,

I experienced a similar situation. Nose down and not in a flat spin with similar airspeed it would not respond to controls. Eventually, it responded without any changes to the parameters that I could tell except that it was around 2,000 Metres. (Air density?) If this is an accurate representation of the Su-27, then it would not be flying in any airshows. Interesting!

[NineLine]

If this is an accurate representation of the Su-27, then it would not be flying in any airshows. Interesting!

 

Pilots flying an Su-27 in an airshow might just have a few more flight hours than you do with the PFM... just saying.

[Nedum]

Pilots flying an Su-27 in an airshow might just have a few more flight hours than you do with the PFM... just saying.

 

Ok come on!

That was a flat spin too! :music_whistling:

 

Please look at my tracks and all tell me what I did wrong and you did right to get out of this spins and why was the Su27 magical flipping to flight path after i ejected?

Even more I am interested why the Su27 goes in a free fall down (nose to earth) and has no steering reaction?

It seems to be that under 300 km/h the Su27 has a magical wire even on the runway.

I can't drive the plane on ground. There is all the time a magical break. Under 60% thrust there is no rolling possible!

 

You can find my tracks @ posting #123 and #124

Edited November 8, 2014 by Nedum

[Axion]

Loving it, just simply loving it! And the best thing, it will only get better. Cheers ED.

[Davee]

Pilots flying an Su-27 in an airshow might just have a few more flight hours than you do with the PFM... just saying.

 

Hi SiThSpAwN:

:megalol:

Agreed!

 

I forgot the smiley in my post.

 

What I was referring to was the ability, in airshows, for the Flanker to perform phenomenal manoeuvres at speeds around 300 kph or so with smooth precision. Not being able to have controls respond at 280 kph in a dive with full AB in the Beta does not appear to model the response that I've seen in live exhibitions.

 

Just sayin' :)

 

Cheers,

[Bucic]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dcs+1.2.11&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_sort=video_date_uploaded&search_query=dcs+su-27

Wow! I don't even care if it's perfectly tuned or buggy. It's already great. And with the improved in-cockpit and the recent new engine sounds. Amazing!

:thumbup:

[mvsgas]

I have not tried the open beta, but for the guys experiencing the flight departures, at what speed are you going? How many negative g? I ask because from what I remember form the translated SU-27SK manual, at ≤300kph, the aircraft is only capable of -.5g, above that it will depart, is that what you guys are seeing?

 

For the guys experiencing lack of control, could you guys be in a deep stall? AFAIK, SU-27, like the F-16 and others, once you enter deep stall it is abit hard to come out off (having AB on or off would not matter)

Edited November 8, 2014 by mvsgas