DCS World 1.5 and 2 Discussion

[theropod]

Its like Flight model discussions, its pointless to compare DCS to anything else when ED tries to achieve what is seen/felt in real life not what is seen/felt in another sim/game.

 

i agree with you, anyway it was really difficult for me to find these examples.

[emg]

I am trying to figure out how close you would have to be to locate a runway marked by 6 inch square flags and tires.

 

Improv heli spot.

[NineLine]

i agree with you, anyway it was really difficult for me to find these examples.

 

Also understand that map size makes a difference as well. The higher (lower number) the resolution (for both texture and mesh), the larger the final map size will be. All this has to be taken into consideration and balanced between looks and performance.

[cichlidfan]

Also understand that map size makes a difference as well. The higher (lower number) the resolution (for both texture and mesh), the larger the final map size will be. All this has to be taken into consideration and balanced between looks and performance.

 

Agreed, and understood.

 

However, I would like to point out that the difference between 1 and 2 meter resolution is basically the same as the difference between standard hd and 4k resolution, which I think most people can detect.

[NineLine]

Agreed, and understood.

 

However, I would like to point out that the difference between 1 and 2 meter resolution is basically the same as the difference between standard hd and 4k resolution, which I think most people can detect.

 

I am mostly talking about elevation detail, the texture detail really isnt as dependant one what they used as it has to be manipulated quite a bit to blend nicely so you dont get the patchwork you see other places such as Google Earth. Just so we are on the same page here.

 

Bottomline, I don't think anyone is going to be disappointed by the high detail areas... PS my wife says there is no difference between HD and standard TV... defence rests ;)

Edited May 28, 2015 by NineLine

[cichlidfan]

Bottomline, I don't think anyone is going to be disappointed by the high detail areas... PS my wife says there is no difference between HD and standard TV... defence rests ;)

 

You are probably correct, and your wife is, of course, by definition, always correct. :)

[Python]

PS my wife says there is no difference between HD and standard TV... defence rests ;)

 

So does my other half, but we both know they're wrong ;)

[uboats]

So does my other half, but we both know they're wrong ;)

 

technically the difference is absolute, but human sense differs.

[outlawal2]

Yep and I find it to be a male / female thing.. Men tend to be more visual and are therefore more sensitive to the differences.. Most men I talk to say there is a big difference and most women do not see it...

[NineLine]

Anyways.... how about those screenshots :)

[rcjonessnp175]

What screen shots?

[NineLine]

What screen shots?

 

New ones in the first post showing the difference in Terrain Data quality.

[SharpeXB]

Will EDGE use GPU Computing?

 

It seems like this would be a good solution to achieve better performance without relying so much on the CPU

I've read here that EDGE won't use multi core processing as it won't increase performance. Which seems implausible unless it's going to run all the physics off the GPU. Is this what it will do?

 

http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home_new.html

 

I know. It's probably top secret anyways so I'll wait and find out...

Edited May 28, 2015 by SharpeXB

[Buzzles]

New ones in the first post showing the difference in Terrain Data quality.

 

How about the one on Facebook showing the new mark flags and tyres, with the flags confirmed to weathercock and flutter in the wind? :)

Edited May 28, 2015 by Buzzles

[NRG-Vampire]

new superficial pattern ? looks good :thumbup:

 

[SharpeXB]

I wonder what this could mean

"Better use of multiple GPUs (CPU multi-threading is not being pursued as it will provide little if any gain)"

Yet the CPU is a big bottleneck in DCS and every other flight sim. How would multi-threading not provide any gain?

Would using the GPUs be the solution?

 

I have nothing to add but rampant speculation and everything I know about computers will fit in the dot at the end of this sentence.

[outlawal2]

I wonder what this could mean

"Better use of multiple GPUs (CPU multi-threading is not being pursued as it will provide little if any gain)"

Yet the CPU is a big bottleneck in DCS and every other flight sim. How would multi-threading not provide any gain?

Would using the GPUs be the solution?

 

I have nothing to add but rampant speculation and everything I know about computers will fit in the dot at the end of this sentence.

 

This subject has been beaten to death in about a hundred threads..

 

Bottom line is that EDGE is a GRAPHICS system, not an entire rewrite of the entire program. The only way you can program multi thread properly is to consider it from the ground up and even then, the benefits to this sim would be modest at best. That along with the difficulties of keeping events in sync while multi threading make it more trouble than ED deems it is worth. And they are the programmers so I think they ought to know..

 

Multi thread in a simulation as advanced as DCS world at this point is not going to happen.. They ARE going to work on Multi GPU though and this along with DIRECTX11 will make a major improvement for us... (And please don't ask about DirectX 12 as it hasn't even been released yet)

 

Maybe after EDGE has been perfected with Multi GPU and DirectX 11 MAYBE they might look at Multi threading but as stated this would take a complete rewrite to accomplish..

[NineLine]

I wonder what this could mean

"Better use of multiple GPUs (CPU multi-threading is not being pursued as it will provide little if any gain)"

Yet the CPU is a big bottleneck in DCS and every other flight sim. How would multi-threading not provide any gain?

Would using the GPUs be the solution?

 

I have nothing to add but rampant speculation and everything I know about computers will fit in the dot at the end of this sentence.

 

CPU wont be a bottleneck when a good chunk of the workload is moved to the GPU(s). You can probably search this thread for the desicussion(s) on this...

[SkateZilla]

I wonder what this could mean

"Better use of multiple GPUs (CPU multi-threading is not being pursued as it will provide little if any gain)"

Yet the CPU is a big bottleneck in DCS and every other flight sim. How would multi-threading not provide any gain?

Would using the GPUs be the solution?

 

I have nothing to add but rampant speculation and everything I know about computers will fit in the dot at the end of this sentence.

 

 

Thought I posted it in this thread, but alas,

 

****Generally Speaking*****

 

 

Speaking Hypothetically/On Paper, Based on AMD, nVidia, and Intels DX9 vs DX11 Performance:

AMD/AMD/AMD Platform would possibly see the largest Performance Increase.

(CPU/GPU/Chipset)

 

-Moving to DX11 Reduces the CPU Overhead, (Specifically Draw Calls, and Grouped Draw Calls in General.)

-Moves to A Unified General Purpose Shader Model that is Used for Everything (Geometry, Vertex/Pixel Drawing, As Well as Effects).

-Which Uses the GPU Resources more efficiently. (Better Use of resources on GPU, Faster Shaders, etc etc)

-*DX11 Should Also Recognize and better use Shared CPU Resources (HyperThreading/AMD Modules, etc)

 

And If the DX11 Rendering Pipe uses Instancing to replace Grouped Draw Calls for things that don’t move like:

Trees, Duplicate/Generic Buildings, Fence Pieces, Light Fixtures around the Runway/Taxi-way, Hangers, Awnings, Generic Bridges, Parked Cars, APUs, Mules, Static Aircraft etc.; the Overhead is reduced further by reducing (Grouped)Draw Calls;

 

For AMD/AMD Users: (CPU/GPU)

Reducing the CPU Overhead on an AMD CPU that has Low IPC Performance, Frees Up CPU Power, which allows the CPU to process what it needs to without being bogged down by DirectX, which also allows the weaker CPU to Feed the GPU Better.

 

Moving Overhead off the CPU and Lanes to the GPU also removes overhead from the Aging 8xx/9xx Chipsets.

 

Moving from DX9c to DX11 will solve issues most AMD Cards Have with Drivers, DX9c, and Poor Performance.

As AMD has No interest in tweaking their Drivers for Specific DX9 Titles, since about 2010 and hasn't cared about DX9c as a whole since about 2011/Early 2012.

 

I've emailed them several times with the data. Something with their drivers cuts DCS’ Performance by 40-55% in certain instances/situations when compared to Performance with an nVidia Card of the Same Performance Level. The Last Response from them indicated they have moved on from supporting DX9c Optimizations/Performance Fixes outside of Specific AAA Titles.

 

While AMD's CPUs have lower overall Single Thread performance and their DX9 Support in Drivers is pretty much nil,

The Bottleneck is actually DirectX9; Moving to DX11 Removes most of that Bottleneck.

 

 

AMD/nVidia Users:

Will see the Increase in Performance from the Decreased CPU Overhead.

The CPU Will be Able to more Efficiently Feed the GPU and Process what it needs to for DCS.

 

Intel/AMD Users:

Will See better performance moving to DX11, which is more attentively supported and optimized by AMD in the Drivers.

Again the Bottleneck would be DirectX9

 

 

Intel/nVidia Users:

will likely see a smaller Increase in performance Compared to AMD Users, but it will still see one.

As Intel’s Chips have more efficient Single Thread IPC Performance and nVidia’s GPU’s Already Ran DX9c more efficiently Than AMD.

You're Still removing the DirectX9 Overhead, and Using DX11's Optimized Shaders.

 

From Experience, and Me being on a AMD/AMD/AMD Platform

I've seen Performance increases ranging from 20%-200+% in both Reelased Games and 3D Applications when Simply moving from DX9 to DX11 Rendering. (In other titles, not including DCS)

The Applications/Titles that Only Increased by Small Margins Saw Better and/or Lower CPU/GPU Usage.

 

Several Games had the Uncapped (Vsync Off) F/ps more than Doubled while using Less Power/Resources of both the CPU and GPU.

 

This Includes 3ds Max and Several Games.

 

In Summary

The GPU is fed Commands by the DirectX API,

which receives the commands from the application, to the CPU, to be processed and sebt to the GPU.

 

When large scenes with a large list of DX commands hits the CPU, the CPU cannot process them fast enough to feed the GPU efficiently, the larger the list of commands/draw calls, the more CPU overhead the API uses, the slower instructions are processed and sent to the GPU, thus lowering both the FPS, and the GPU Usage.

 

Whrn the scene has a low number of commands and draw calls, the CPU processes them efficiently abd passes them quickly to the GPU, which causes increased GPU usage and most likely increased FPS.

 

Moving from DX9 to DX11 reduces the CPU overhead significantly, allowing more commands to be processed at any given time by the CPU which allows higher gpu in heavy scenes, and higher FPS.

 

Same thing for Multi-GPU, seeing as the DX9 Engine doesnt use Xfire at all, Xfire users may see a significant performance increase based on that alone (utilizing both GPUs instead of just one.)

 

 

But enough of my techno mumbo jumbo..

Edited May 29, 2015 by SkateZilla

[StandingCow]

Even the "low detail" images look amazing, and I doubt many helos will be going out that far during missions, mostly high fast movers.

[OnlyforDCS]

How about the one on Facebook showing the new mark flags and tyres, with the flags confirmed to weathercock and flutter in the wind? :)

 

This last part is very impressive, and very welcome. Makes determining wind direction during startup/taxi/TO/lndg a 'breeze'...:)

[rcjonessnp175]

Even the "low detail" images look amazing, and I doubt many helos will be going out that far during missions, mostly high fast movers.

 

Oh I can guarantee every inch of the map will be used. Farps shall be built in the boonies not in Vegas.

[Mango]

That post about moving to DirectX 11 is very exciting (for AMD users)!

[SkateZilla]

That post about moving to DirectX 11 is very exciting (for AMD users)!

 

That was 3D Applications in General and Not DCS specific. Actual results may vary significantly.

[Punisher74]

Well I have other flight sims that are also directx 11 and graphics look like like sh*t running a AMD R9 270. I get great graphics on none sim games but sims look ok DCS 1 is good, but I'd like multi CPU and xfire multi gpu to hand what DCS 2 says it would do plus the multi threading to hand all other speed related issues and so I can assign threads so things like team speak and trackir, Helios etc processes aren't slowing things dow as games get better. Most CPU's are quad's unless you go AMD at 8cores.