Little bit dissapointed

[Juancio]

Hey there folks, i bought this module 2 days ago and I must say I feel a bit disappointed by its low quality even for a beta. I acquired The MiG 15, Mil-8 and Huey by Belsimtek and those are great quality wise (the Huey not so much, collision model is buggy) but the Sabre was a big letdown.

 

For a start, the livery shown in the screenshot is not even remotely close to the one we get with the module. The one in game doesn`t have the nice aluminum finish, its just pale grey.

 

The damage model is pretty basic, main landing gear doesn`t break. Even if you hit it hard enough, it wont break. Damage decals are badly placed, UV maps are not aligned properly.

 

If you crash the plane, it doesn`t disintegrate, you can see the intact model (pilot included) half sunk in the ground mesh.

 

Flight model seems a bit twitchy , it stalls way too much, way worse than the MiG-15, even if its supposed to have better stall characteristics.

 

I think the module as a whole is pretty unfinished even for a beta, they shouldn`t be charging customers full price for this thing until they improve it a little bit. I really cant understand how the same people that developed the MiG-15 (i love this one), created this module.

 

I`m not planning on asking for a refund or anything, basically because I don`t care. I just think they should improve the Sabre before releasing other products.

 

Just my 2 cents

Sorry for my English.

[gavagai]

The shiny aluminum is with EDGE (DCS 1.5/2.0).

 

The stall characteristics you mention are probably for an F-86 with slats?

 

Other than that, as you say, it's your $0.02.

[SDsc0rch]

you gotta be kidding me

 

BETA!

 

 

 

??

[Silver_Dragon]

Actually ED products and 3rd parties modules has a "basic" Damage system on add-ons module (The planes / helos / vehicles and ships, can be destroyed on some pre-defined zones), and only can reach some level of damaged / destroyed detail, but not more (DCS: W has no dynamic destructive models or disintegration models implemented)

 

The actualy DM working by "Cells" with the develop assign the destructible regions of a module. The develop can add "detachable" parts or your module is some cells has been destroyed.

 

VEAO Hawk "cells" damage model example.

 

The destroyer model on every 3D model has actually always the same. (someone correct me if that is wrong)

 

ED actually work has centred on improve and add new system functionality, and expected on the future (Hope to) can improve the damage model and crash animation on some level of details, but not has any info of that level of improvement or dates about when can coming.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Silver_Dragon

[Nooch]

This module is excellent, especially when you consider it's in beta right now! You say it stalls way too much when in fact it has a very low stall speed (under 130kts at sea level). What were you expecting, 50kts like a Cessna?

Everything feels authentic sound, flight dynamics... And the cockpit and exterior modelling are full of detail. How can you ignore all this?

Yes sure some stuff here and there need to be fixed or added but come on, it doesn't make it a bad module at all!

Belsimtek said that they are currently finishing their beta stuff, and of course that includes the sabre. So everything's on track. I mean I don't feel like there is anything worth complaining about really...

Edited August 2, 2015 by Nooch

[Xanderous]

This module is excellent, especially when you consider it's in beta right now! You say it stalls way too much when in fact it has a very low stall speed (under 130kts at sea level). What were you expecting, 50kts like a Cessna?

Everything feels authentic sound, flight dynamics... And the cockpit and exterior modelling are full of detail. How can you ignore all this?

Yes sure some stuff here and there need to be fixed or added but come on, it doesn't make it a bad module at all!

Belsimtek said that they are currently finishing their beta stuff, and of course that includes the sabre. So everything's on track. I mean I don't feel like there is anything worth complaining about really...

 

I agree. Great sounds, cockpit. And I have in fact broken the gear on landing. My nose dragged along the entire length of the runway. Even the cockpit glass reflects the inside of the cockpit to the point it is almost distracting. It's so good, I actually did NOT know this was Beta.

[Ryan Legend]

I had a broken gear ones too. I got shot up by anti air and only my nosegear would come out, had to retract it so I could make a belly landing.

 

However, I never noticed any problems with the UV maps. Juancio, could give us a bit more information on that topic, perhaps a screenshot? If you do and the problem is with your installation we could help you with that.

[Juancio]

Thanks for your reply guys.

 

I want to may clear I never said this was a bad module, i just think its a little bit lacking on the details department.

 

When I said the plane doesn´t disintegrate, I meant it lacks a destroyed model. When you crash you don´t get a black wreck like with the other planes. Even when you eject and the plane crashes, you see an intact model half sunk into the ground with a pilot in the cockpit (even though you ejected).

 

About the plane stalling like a Cessna. This thing spins when you make a hard turn while doing 600 kph, the MiG is supposed to be worse, yet it doesn´t suffer from this.

 

Only the nose gear breaks, the man gear doesn´t.

 

Engine compressor blades are not animated, just a static object.

 

I know these are just minor details, probably easy to fix/implement, but they are killing the inmersión for me at the moment. After buying all of their other modules, I expected something on the same level, sorry.

[Gladman]

Juancio, maybe the problem is that you didn't realize you were buying a beta. The little things are never perfect in this form. When the final version comes out I'm sure 99% of the things you list will be cleared up.

[Ryan Legend]

About the plane stalling like a Cessna. This thing spins when you make a hard turn while doing 600 kph

 

This is actually very normal. When you pull hard on the stick your AOA increases drasticly. When you do this while making a turn, what happens is that the inner wing of the turn goes a little bit slower than your outer wing, hence the spin when you stall (the inner wing produces less lift than the outer wing). I think this is the way it works, but don't take my word for it. I might be wrong.

 

There is no AOA gauge in the Sabre, so for all you know, you might be increasing your AOA way to much.

[Nooch]

This thing spins when you make a hard turn while doing 600 kph, the MiG is supposed to be worse, yet it doesn´t suffer from this.

 

From what I've read everywhere this is the correct behavior. The Mig actually had a higher max AoA than the Sabre and consequently it could turn better, in theory. In practice, as Mig pilots didn't have G suits, American pilots were able to sustain tighter turns. But the G suit difference thing isn't present in the sim at the moment. That's why when you play against the Mig, it will still turn better.

 

So yeah Mig pilots should blackout faster. I guess this is the change that should be made.

[Foul Ole Ron]

So yeah Mig pilots should blackout faster. I guess this is the change that should be made.

 

They've removed g suits from Mig 15 pilot in their internal version - hopefully this change will be merged with the 1.5 release but I haven't seen any confirmation on this.

[Juancio]

Thanks for your replies guys. Very much appreciated.

[Darkwolf]

You should be happy you can't destroy your gear, the emergency lever is not even implemented.

[Art-J]

OP has a point. The Sabre was a mess after initial release and today, one year later, it's still a bit rough around the edges, at least compared to the MiG, which on the other hand, is probably the most polished beta-release in DCS history, followed closely by LN's MiG-21.

 

But, as BST promised, we can expect some final refinements for their old modules, so let's wait and see what the future brings for the Sabre.

[Plague2Delta]

Actually ED products and 3rd parties modules has a "basic" Damage system on add-ons module (The planes / helos / vehicles and ships, can be destroyed on some pre-defined zones), and only can reach some level of damaged / destroyed detail, but not more (DCS: W has no dynamic destructive models or disintegration models implemented)

 

The actualy DM working by "Cells" with the develop assign the destructible regions of a module. The develop can add "detachable" parts or your module is some cells has been destroyed.

 

VEAO Hawk "cells" damage model example.

 

The destroyer model on every 3D model has actually always the same. (someone correct me if that is wrong)

 

ED actually work has centred on improve and add new system functionality, and expected on the future (Hope to) can improve the damage model and crash animation on some level of details, but not has any info of that level of improvement or dates about when can coming.

 

That is great info...I have been very curious about how this works.

[goestrip]

and the lack of a manual ;-)

I know there has been the real manual around these forum.... but being more complex than the mig 15 (which has a very nice manual, but no stock english cockpit ) one could have used an indepth manual.

 

I'm sure it will come later on, as BST is used to quality product, but slow delivery :lol:

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

If you think the Sabre is unfinished, you should stay away from the Hawk.

 

Some of your points are valid. But I never got it to stall-away under me. It can be a bit of a handfull when you are flying it on the edge, but hey, it was only 5 years after WWII. Jets were still very new. And it is bound not to be as smooth a flight as a flying computer like an F-15 or a Su-33.

[joey45]

 

Engine compressor blades are not animated, just a static object.

 

 

They do move, what you are looking at in the engine are blades that make sure the air moves in the correct direction.

 

Look more closely.:thumbup:

[Juancio]

They do move, what you are looking at in the engine are blades that make sure the air moves in the correct direction.

 

Look more closely.:thumbup:

 

I already looked from all angles (front and rear) and maximum zoom, they don't move at all.

 

The animation works only when the AI is using the plane, when you are flying it, it doesn't. I tried uninstalling all modules and mods, still doesn't work for me.

[Nooch]

I already looked from all angles (front and rear) and maximum zoom, they don't move at all.

 

The animation works only when the AI is using the plane, when you are flying it, it doesn't. I tried uninstalling all modules and mods, still doesn't work for me.

 

Yep I confirm, it's not you, I've got the same thing too.

[Buzzles]

I already looked from all angles (front and rear) and maximum zoom, they don't move at all.

 

The animation works only when the AI is using the plane, when you are flying it, it doesn't. I tried uninstalling all modules and mods, still doesn't work for me.

 

Yep I confirm, it's not you, I've got the same thing too.

 

There are some bug reports about that:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=141280

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=141078

 

That said, AgentJayZ to the rescue:

 

Start about the 8:40 mark, you clearly cannot see any compressor blades moving at the front, but can very clearly the turbine blades moving at the back.

[Golo]

That said, AgentJayZ to the rescue:

 

Start about the 8:40 mark, you clearly cannot see any compressor blades moving at the front, but can very clearly the turbine blades moving at the back.

 

No you cant because they are behind protective FOD screen covers (which btw are not animated either in game (bug?) (the switch for them is)).

[Roadrunner]

just a note for the manual, even though there is only a quickstart included, that guy charly owl (love his work, but he is crazy :D ) has a nice guide, see HERE.

 

anyway, GLaDos has more testing to do, have fun ;)

 

RR

[SPEKTRE76]

Dude what are you talking about? Disappointed,....you say?

 

This is by far the easiest plane to start up and get going. The flight model is the best I have seen yet for a jet. I tried to do over 500kts with rockets loaded and my plane did not like it at all. It's pretty damn realistic. In fact I learned to start it up just by playing around. A monkey can fly this plane.

 

Belsimtek YOU DID an amazing job! I am very happy with my purchase of both the F-86 and the MiG-15. I had my first dogfight in an F-86 against the MiG in 'Real Controls' mode. It lasted only 2 minutes but it felt eternal. I was too busy chasing one MiG when his Comrade came in from behind and let me have both 23mm and the 37mm, LOL.

 

 

I hope you really consider making the F-100 Super Saber and the MiG-17 Fresco.