Some honest talk about the Mirage

[Beamscanner]

I got chased down by a 2000 while flying home in a F-15.. Tacview hasn't been properly recording for me, so i can't show the flight data.

 

I was going mach 1.4 at 40k ft running home from enemy territory. He had climbed up from low alt/behind and caught up to me and took me out with a 530. He had me locked up for awhile(~30 seconds), but I wasn't really expecting him to catch me in a climb. Does the Mirage have some crazy awesome acceleration..?

[Deezle]

Yes, above 20k it's crazy right now, you can put it totally vertical in burner and it will accelerate well past mach 1 to well over 70k.

[Hook47]

I got chased down by a 2000 while flying home in a F-15.. Tacview hasn't been properly recording for me, so i can't show the flight data.

 

I was going mach 1.4 at 40k ft running home from enemy territory. He had climbed up from low alt/behind and caught up to me and took me out with a 530. He had me locked up for awhile(~30 seconds), but I wasn't really expecting him to catch me in a climb. Does the Mirage have some crazy awesome acceleration..?

 

I love the Mirage, and I hate to say it, but until issues like this are resolved it probably should be removed from MP servers. Between the game breaking performance errors in certain regimes, and the total lack of IFF, the Mirage is causing some issues online.

 

I hope the IFF and performance problems will be quickly resolved, since this is important for balanced and far MP combat.

[Conroy]

Agree. Mirage need a lot of work and fix but it absolutely great! It's a real pleasure to fly, and this i what i feel over Nevada, absolutely amazing.

 

[Cesotar]

I really like this plane. It will really be my next workhorse to the launch of the DCS F/A18C. I look forward to the issue of bugs were fixed. Congratulations to the entire team of development of this aircraft.

 

Saludos desde España

[rrohde]

Interesting discussion for some folks here: F-16 vs Mirage

[Reagan505]

They were honest about the state of the module at open "beta" release. We that are regulars on the forums knew what we were getting. But on the other hand, think about all the people that aren't forum regulars. How would they know what to expect? I can sympathize a little bit with them, but I don't like seeing the rude posts on the forum created by some of them. I think it's a communication problem. Sure, the forum regulars such as ourselves have been able to communicate with the devs, but not much was done outside of that. What about putting more information about it's state in the newsletter and module store page? There was nothing there except a "beta" tag, which wasn't enough in my opinion. A few words about what systems would work and what the future plans were would have been a nice gesture.

 

 

Dude.... you know this is just a VIDEO GAME right! None of these developers owe any of us an explanation, product updates, etc... Modules get released when they get released. Being kept in the dark by ED (and other devs) is nothing new and has been going on for years.. Yet, everybody continues to whine and cry on the forums, 24/7.. Like they are some authority figure on real life aviation or what these developers should or shouldn't do. Give it a rest..

 

Sidenote, - At least the Mirage 2000C isn't a huge waste of money like the VEAO Hawk.. That thing is junk, the only module I regret buying.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Reagan505

[ineth]

Interesting discussion for some folks here: F-16 vs Mirage

 

SOURCE:

I used to be in an editor as a Motorcycle magazine, and sustained a freelance relation to various Magazines in Greece and there were several journalist symposiums. Loving Defence matters i hang out allot with the guys from Military magazines.

 

From articles i remember reading and from talking with those people what i can say is:

 

The Hellenic Air Force is using both types for decades now. The general conclusion is that on higher altitudes the M2000 reigns supreme. Simply as that.

 

The problem starts on lower altitudes where the engine does not perform as well as the engines of the F16s and in sustained high g's it will loose eventually.

 

I know of several events, from the aforementioned source, and the news that this was proven to test vs Greek F16s and Turkish ones. The conclusion is always the same. on high altitudes the M2000 are scrambled for interceptions, when it goes in dogfights our neighbors try to pull the fight at lower altitudes and usually this is the time when the readiness F16s take off.

 

The F16 IS much more flexible as a weapons platform so the M2000 is used only for Air Superiority, Anti ship missions and for launching Cruise Missiles.

 

As i said before. If you can afford only one type. The F16 cannot be beaten. As a combo though, this is truly a good one.

 

Proven!

 

Fly safe all.

[Brisse]

Dude.... you know this is just a VIDEO GAME right! None of these developers owe any of us an explanation, product updates, etc... Modules get released when they get released. Being kept in the dark by ED (and other devs) is nothing new and has been going on for years.. Yet, everybody continues to wine and cry on the forums, 24/7.. Like they are some authority figure on real life aviation or what these developers should or shouldn't do. Give it a rest..

 

Sidenote, - At least the Mirage 2000C isn't a huge waste of money like the VEAO Hawk.. That thing is junk, the only module I regret buying.

 

Whoa. What's with the hostility? Did I say something wrong? First you remind me of the trivial nature of video games, which I am fully aware of, then you go into rant mode as if your life depended on it. Trying be be sarcastic? :)

 

Would it really hurt you so much on a personal level if the ED store described their products current state properly? I really wouldn't mind a big red sign that says "EARLY ACCESS, BETA, INCOMPLETE, MISSING FEATURES" on unfinished modules, even though I will personally keep buying them and being active as an open beta tester, giving feedback back to the developers. I will gladly do that, but that doesn't mean everyone will.

 

Ultimately, I think it would benefit ED and their partners to be a bit more clear with these open beta releases. People buying them without knowing what they are getting into might get the wrong impressions and be turned away by a lack of quality. I have seen plenty of those on other forums (such as BMS Forums), writing about their negative DCS experiences.

[Deezle]

The Hellenic Air Force is using both types for decades now. The general conclusion is that on higher altitudes the M2000 reigns supreme. Simply as that.

 

The problem starts on lower altitudes where the engine does not perform as well as the engines of the F16s and in sustained high g's it will loose eventually.

I actually just read a post from a former Viper pilot on another forum yesterday.

 

Fought many Mirage 2000s both high alt and low. dont pick on a delta wing above 20K......dive for the thicker f---ing air now! I lived, my wingman got my guy and I got his. shooting cross merges. Oh how i miss the day!

[cquail]

Looking like the Mirage will shape up to be a good aircraft. At the moment though I consider it to be in Alpha state considering how many features are either not working or not implemented yet. It looks like we are going to be waiting for the better part of another year before it reaches a finished state. I've already shelved it and am back to the 21. I'll re-visit it a few months from now and see how it's shaping up. Considering the $59 price tag (CDN $82) I was expecting much much more on release.

[LuSi_6]

I actually just read a post from a former Viper pilot on another forum yesterday.

 

maybe...someday... that M2000-C module will stop people from ground hugging while playing online. The 530D is pretty nice up there where the air is thin too!

[Fionn]

Looking like the Mirage will shape up to be a good aircraft. At the moment though I consider it to be in Alpha state considering how many features are either not working or not implemented yet. It looks like we are going to be waiting for the better part of another year before it reaches a finished state. I've already shelved it and am back to the 21. I'll re-visit it a few months from now and see how it's shaping up. Considering the $59 price tag (CDN $82) I was expecting much much more on release.

 

Agreed, I'm loving the module it's great but I would def call it an alpha. Beta means complete but in need of public testing imo. But who cares, it's a great module and is fun to fly and will be fun to grow with as and when the updates come :-D

[ineth]

I actually just read a post from a former Viper pilot on another forum yesterday.

 

This is what i am saying for days now and people tossing charts and diagramms as an argument.

Agreed. They look fine. But.....

 

The M2000 make good use of the thin air due to the superior lift, low drag and good aerodynamic shape in all.

 

At lower altitudes they would normaly make good use of the extra lift too, but a plane with excess power can slowly overrun it and get in a position of advantage.

 

It seems the only thing that will determine the outcome is the power.

I can see a plan with canards use high alphas to turn the tables and this makes us look suspicious on the Israeli site. Does it not?

 

If you are thinking Delta planes with excess of power you are probably going to think of EF2000 and Raphal's.

 

On the other side though, being quite for a long time a magazine rat i remember a certain F16 known as F16XL. And what i will do now is toss some food for thought in this thread.

 

F16XL

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16XL

[SkateZilla]

Please Note, Discussions/Comparisons to BMS will be deleted, this is not a BMS Forum.

[tusler]

Thanks for the info, I'll stay above 20k from now on. I have been getting killed down low ...now I know why.

[Skitter]

Sure, the forum regulars such as ourselves have been able to communicate with the devs, but not much was done outside of that.

 

It's really hard to believe for me that people who have a rant are not forum regulars. I suspect the majority of people who buy a pre-released or beta version must have been watching the plane for a while. And come on, the plane is out since Friday and they have already managed to fly enough to have a strong opinion? They are hardcore simmers. If thet are hardcore simmers, they knew where to find the info. They knew where to complain right?

 

It's probably many things....

If you have never worked with clients, customers, you don't know how to deal with them and you can't appreciate the very openes of Razbams developers.

 

Some are just not mature enough to think and then type.

Have no moderation. Don't look at the balance of for and against.

 

Some people behace like little children who are crying to see how much they can get out of complaining.

 

Some people are just lazy and don't like to read

 

Others have a bad day...or bad week, or bad life...

 

In the end of the day, it was't hard to get information whats in the package , quite the opposite. We are all serious about the simming here. If somebody payed that much money without actually checking what they are paying for. Come on. They don 't give a crap anyway. It wasn't compulsory to buy the plane in beta, right? If you spend enought time to read about requirements specification for a beta ersion, maybe you should consider a different hobby. Or maybe you should have had spend that time reading about what the Mirage beta will be?

 

I mean, the Razbam was so open about everything. There were Q and Answera from ED. I actually received reply straight from the devs. It was an honest answer. The Razbam did a 1st class job in devs <> hardcore simmers comms.

 

I have no sympathy for the people who have a go at Razbam now.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Skitter

[iborg]

Some honest talk about the Mirage

 

Hear, hear ! I've been waiting for the module, I preordered it, impatiently waited to install it. Now yes, it's not a finished product. Important features need too be slotted in. I can't wait for radar antenna slewing, IFF, better modelling of missiles, all that stuff. But I'm relearning fast jet operations anyway (last I played falcon 4 was in the early 2000s). I have yet to try ground attack, ILS approach, air refueling... With the Mirage. So I have a full plate already.

And most importantly, I do trust RAZBAM for performing updates and keeping us in the loop.

So, no I don't regret my pre-order

[tflash]

I'm having an incredible blast with this Mirage! What a plane! It'all about speed. Flying planes like this is really what I'm looking for in flight sims.

[droopy114]

Great job Razbam, now i'm finally at home and enjoying this great module....i was waiting for years for a Mirage and you made it, thank you!

[Nealius]

Please Note, Discussions/Comparisons to BMS will be deleted, this is not a BMS Forum.

 

Considering that the charts in the Razbam manual are taken (with permission IIRC) from the BMS M2000 how is that rule supposed to work?

[zxarkov]

I think it is a great release,sure there are bugs in the launch BETA but once they are taken care of/refined it will be a real winner IMHO.

[Boberro]

And about the characteristis that needs to be added, just watch Mi8, it has been like that, while the devs added updates time and time..

And that is sad.

People are now used to get "beta" and wait for updates long time. It became "normal" which clearly is not.

I do not deny the right to release beta product but which is close to function properly and short after release make it full product.

Even now long time after release 80% modules are in beta status - I just browsed ED's shop.

And people have orgasm about that :)

 

People loves to complain because they love the module, or because they dont have the F18 and they want it the moment a 4 Gen fighter was announce as the "Mirage"

What a weird "argument".

People didn't complain just for complain to kill time. They had good points, the form of saying it could be better though.

[whitehot]

Sidenote, - At least the Mirage 2000C isn't a huge waste of money like the VEAO Hawk.. That thing is junk, the only module I regret buying.

 

 

can't say I don't agree.

[Koriel]

Sidenote, - At least the Mirage 2000C isn't a huge waste of money like the VEAO Hawk.. That thing is junk, the only module I regret buying.

can't say I don't agree.

 

I truly enjoy the Mirage, some big things are already fixed, just waiting for release. The devs have received some good feedback from the community about systems and some really good bug analysis. I have the feeling that by releasing this module in it's current state will actually increase it's development speed.

 

I was considering not buying this module after my experiences with the Veao Hawk, What also played a role is that I can't keep on buying all modules. I just don't have the time to get proficient at the ones I already own (all). And with the F5 and F14 and perhaps even the Viggen already on my whishlist I need to make choices. But boy am I glad I bought this one!

 

I might end up cleaning up my hanger by throwing out the Hawk and the WW2 planes. I don't fly them, and I'm not sure I will in the future. The Hawk was great fun to fly initially, it was new. But with hardly any improvements since release, and no multi-crew (which was not promised, but I was rooting for) it's the only module I end up regretting buying.