It's all about Jet Fighter Sound

[Hueyman]

Hi people !

 

Okay, please take a look at this video :

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

On my side, the most impressive thing I love in Jet Fighters, beside their speed and performances, is their impressive and intimidating ROAAAARRRR their turbofans make.

 

To this date, I never heard anything similar in any sim. i truly thing DCS is now the leading edge in term of Modern Air Combat, and the very advanced past, current and future modules are proving it. Wouldn't it worth to put a dedicated part of Eagle Dynamics team working solely on the Sound Engine ?

 

I'm aware the result coming in our hears in the video ( in real world ) is amazing complex to reproduce due to the myriad of physical and audio effects to take into account ( mobile velocity, base fan frequency, wind dir/force, ATM conditions, humidity )... cause the distinctive " WSHIIOOOOOUUURRRRRRRRRRR " we hear is not really the engine sound itself, but the air blast of compressed air busted at several hundreds knots out of engine exhaust with ambiant air, that violent contact creates that sound ( like when you blow very hard air on your close hand )

 

We can have best quality recorded sound ever ever made in DCS, if we don't have a coherent and advanced sound engine, with 3D positioning, real time calculations etc, we'll only hear the same unplausible stuff we hear for decades ( we know it's a turbine, cause it's whining, but nothing close to a real Jet Engine )

 

With the extreme level of graphical, system modelling, flight dynamics we are delivered right now, that huge lack in Sound modelling is really starting to make bad contrast with the rest. Overrall immersion is GREATLY affected by sounds . For instance, look at this video, ( not for deplorable gamish side of FSX of course, but what real sounds matched with these maneuvers can give in term of immersion )

 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Ou_R0ci70&t=1m27s[/ame]

 

Some may say you don't fly in outside view in real world, and they are rue... but in that case why developing always more and more advanced 3D assets and so on ? Common ... :lol:

 

What do you think, the community ?

 

And what would the developer side would tell us regarding this ?

 

Happy flying everyone !

[Rangi]

I remember from one of Wags video updates that a new sound engine is planned, no idea when or what the specs will be though. Sorry no link.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Hi people !

 

Okay, please take a look at this video :

 

 

On my side, the most impressive thing I love in Jet Fighters, beside their speed and performances, is their impressive and intimidating ROAAAARRRR their turbofans make.

 

To this date, I never heard anything similar in any sim. i truly thing DCS is now the leading edge in term of Modern Air Combat, and the very advanced past, current and future modules are proving it. Wouldn't it worth to put a dedicated part of Eagle Dynamics team working solely on the Sound Engine ?

 

I'm aware the result coming in our hears in the video ( in real world ) is amazing complex to reproduce due to the myriad of physical and audio effects to take into account ( mobile velocity, base fan frequency, wind dir/force, ATM conditions, humidity )... cause the distinctive " WSHIIOOOOOUUURRRRRRRRRRR " we hear is not really the engine sound itself, but the air blast of compressed air busted at several hundreds knots out of engine exhaust with ambiant air, that violent contact creates that sound ( like when you blow very hard air on your close hand )

 

We can have best quality recorded sound ever ever made in DCS, if we don't have a coherent and advanced sound engine, with 3D positioning, real time calculations etc, we'll only hear the same unplausible stuff we hear for decades ( we know it's a turbine, cause it's whining, but nothing close to a real Jet Engine )

 

With the extreme level of graphical, system modelling, flight dynamics we are delivered right now, that huge lack in Sound modelling is really starting to make bad contrast with the rest. Overrall immersion is GREATLY affected by sounds . For instance, look at this video, ( not for deplorable gamish side of FSX of course, but what real sounds matched with these maneuvers can give in term of immersion )

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Ou_R0ci70&t=1m27s

 

Some may say you don't fly in outside view in real world, and they are rue... but in that case why developing always more and more advanced 3D assets and so on ? Common ... :lol:

 

What do you think, the community ?

 

And what would the developer side would tell us regarding this ?

 

Happy flying everyone !

 

 

 

Damn I had planned to make an identical thread about sound!!!:thumbup::thumbup:

 

I have also wait for YEARS to see a flight sim where sound is anything "close" to what real fighters and aircrafts sounds like...I really have never understood WHY ALL sims out there fails so hard when trying to make a jet engine sound and not getting even close to the real thing...I have always though, damn!!!, did they ever heard how an F-15 really sounds?¿?¿?:huh:...I also LOVE when I see a real fighter around me the way they really make you scare the crap out of you!!!its one of the most AMAZING things of those birds...its like the world is gonna explode when they fly by :D...

 

Sadly this sound has NEVER EVER been present in any sim I have played so far...

 

So, yeah, I think sound should be a real PRIORITY once for all specially when DCS is the REFERENCE in modern air combat sims...

 

+100000000 mate!!:thumbup:

Edited January 12, 2016 by watermanpc

[Solty]

Not only jets. Props fall short of expectations as well as gun shots and hits, explosions. The one good thing is the p51' scream its pretty nice. But almost always something seems out of place.

[Mud]

+1

 

I fully agree on this. It would improve immersion tremendously!

[SUBS17]

Some really good soundpacks in the past were made by zzzspace so something like that combined with a new engine would rock.

[Enduro14]

Some really good soundpacks in the past were made by zzzspace so something like that combined with a new engine would rock.

 

This!! that is a great sound depiction of jets. Have not tried it in 1.5 or 2.0 though

[snowsniper]

DCS & PROPS sounds NEEDS FMOD STUDIO !!

 

I've got a friend who is a sound modder for IL2 COD or BOS and he does awesome job with

props sounds thanks to FMOD.

 

 

Actual sound system if you want to tweek it a bit depends on some general lua files.

and if you do optimum job possible for one aircraft, it will crash other aircraft settings

 

when you use actual diveplane soundmod in JSGME you can see what I mean.

 

FMOD needed with 2.0 please !

[Blaze]

New sound API is already in use I believe for a few aircraft. Have you fired up the L-39 lately? The sound suite is beautiful.

[Steph]

Air distortion /air tones/winds...

http://www.sounddogs.com/subcategories.asp

 

ex: http://www.sounddogs.com/sound-effects/dark-wind-dark-windy-607494

[hubson]

Hueyman, I can't stress enough how much I admire the beauty of the jet fighter sound and how important it is to me in the sim. I couldn't agree more with you that pursuing the "proper simulation" of the jet wave is pointless - it will be years before we get this, if ever. I think the best approach to this had developers of BF4. They used prerecorded flyby sounds and blended them smoothly into static engine audios. The effect is perfect imo. Here is an example:

 

 

Here is my try to achive something similar in DCS:

 

 

I wish the sound was higher on ED priority list, but thats me.

Edited January 15, 2016 by hubson
typo

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Hueyman, I can't stress enough how much I admire the beauty of the jet fighter sound and how important it is to me in the sim. I couldn't agree more with you that pursuing of the "proper simulation" of the jet wave is pointless - it will be years before we get this, if ever. I think the best approach to this had developers of BF4. The used prerecorded flyby sounds and blended them smoothly into static engine audios. The effect is perfect imo. Here is an example:

 

 

Here is my try to achive something similar in DCS:

 

 

I wish the sound was higher on ED priority list, but thats me.

 

 

Man, having sonething like in the second video you posted would just be A DREAM COME TRUE!!!:thumbup:...it would incredibly make the planes to "be there alive"...and with a good audio equipment with good deep bass reproduction like 20hz and below un the infrasonic it would feel like we are in the middle of a real display :worthy:

[hubson]

Well the ball is on ED's side. My wish/suggestion for developers is to implement one additional sound for flyby only. It supposed to be played once (not in the loop) when the plane passes the external camera (spectator). I think thats how the sound of sonic boom was implemented in some previous instalments of LockOn. Now its not used anymore (but still present in sounds folder in DCS). I know that this solution is a "shortcut" in such ambitious project like DCS but I belive it could work well -like in BF4. Does anyone agree?

 

Man, having sonething like in the second video you posted would just be A DREAM COME TRUE!!!:thumbup:...it would incredibly make the planes to "be there alive"...and with a good audio equipment with good deep bass reproduction like 20hz and below un the infrasonic it would feel like we are in the middle of a real display :worthy:

[hannibal]

with the upcoming VR trend, spatial positional audio necessary!

 

but it has to be integrated into DCS

 

https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/audiosdk/latest/

[Angelthunder]

Yes,i would like to hear better improved sounds in the sim.Come to think of it,i remember playing TWs Wings over Vietnam game and they had jet sounds in the sim that were very loud when i flew them.Maybe that's something ED should follow.

[rrohde]

+1

[StandingCow]

It's pretty funny how easily people can disregard good sound engineering until they actually hear the difference.

 

Hopefully this is something ED is planning, it really helps with the immersion.

[Nooch]

Just to make things clear. First you have to understand why this "roar" exist in the first place. It comes from the Doppler effect and it implies movement between the source (the aircraft) and the receiver (your ears).

So as long as you are using a view that isn't moving relatively to your aircraft (like the F2 view) there shouldn't be any roar at all. The following video is a good example.

 

 

So right now the whole sound engine is not rubbish, as some seem to think. It just lacks the Doppler effect, which is noticeable only during fly-bys.

[hubson]

So right now the whole sound engine is not rubbish, as some seem to think. It just lacks the Doppler effect, which is noticeable only during fly-bys.

Doppler effect is implemented in the sim and it works just fine. Despite that flyby sounds could be better - therefor the poll and discussion.

[Random]

Sound is absolutely critical to my enjoyment of a game/sim.

 

OK we don't hear much in the cockpit but I do like to see videos from the external viewpoint. I do like other aircraft to be taking off while my canopy is up before start up etc. The sounds created by an aircraft flyby arent just one source either.

 

Doppler is indeed present in DCS but It's not convincing in my opinion. But more importantly the current sounds on the jets appear to just get higher pitched and louder. Its still the same wooshy jet noise. Every aircraft sounds different but most jets get to a point where your earsdrums are being overdriven much like a cheap speaker and the sound you hear turns into a deafening white noise roar.... The props sound also seems to be purely RPM based not load based, though the recent popping on overrun is a nice addition!

 

It's not just the engine either. The Vulcan howl is a resonance in the intakes at certain throttle settings. F104's whistle comes from the point bypassed air rejoins the exhaust. The "blue note" of meteors and hunters is from the gun ports. P51's whistle from the intake at certain angles of attack etc Even a pair of Mk1 spitfires sound different when the only difference in them is the mirror above the pilots head!. I hope some day that every aircraft in DCS replicates the real sound signature of the aircraft modelled.

 

If you arent familiar with the Blue Note from 45 seconds on.

 

I also hope that some day we will get the sound lagging behind the aircraft. It should be possible but would depend quite a lot on people audio setup being able to position sounds well enough.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Random

[Red Dragon-DK]

Super great poll. Sound adds so much to the environment. I can´t understand why some of the developers underestimate this part to any game/sim and do not develop this part. Sound have a great value to the overall experience, in what you are doing. And this is something you just know and irritates you when you hear it sounds wrong. As many of the videos there already have been uploaded illustrate, there is room for substantial improvement.

 

I have heard many good mods that have been made and that deserves a tribute. Unfortunately some multiplayer server do not allow to use of these good mods, for some reasons I do not know. Therefore, I think it would be great, if from official side began to create a new sound image that could match the sound that is in the real world.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Interesting thread for sure :thumbup:

 

I dont totally agree about only doppler effect is the culprit here...you can have a nice doppler model and even then it could not sound as the real thing...I think that most caracteristic sound when one is watching a real fighter aircraft ( jet basically) is NOT the high pitched one you hear first due to the lower wave lenght speed BUT the DEEP and powerfull BASS and WIND DISTORTIONS that come after the plane flys by...indeed, is also important to note that the sound recorded by a camera is NOT the same as one would perceive in the real world. There are many factors that would determine the sound recorded and in the case of such a powerfull and high dynamic range source a jet engine is, the way its presented in recordings could not be the closer to reality. In real life most of the high pitched sounds are masked by the brutal mid, bass and ultra deep bass (infrasonic ) frequencies that wind blends and only in really close fly bys (or at low throttle situations) you will be able to notice those little high pitched details that caracterize the aircraft.

 

in fact its funny how almost EVERY SINGLE plane sounds the same (jets I mean) in this regard just only little differences the closer you are to it (so, in the higher pitch sounds as bass frequencies are less distinguishable to human hearing) but again, as the plane goes away the sound is almost the same and I bet most of us would recognize "that" tipical sound.

 

Also, as "Random" said, its very important to recreate the "delay" that could happen between the aircraft position and the moment the sound waves arrives to receptor...and this is very important not only due to the speed of sound itself and the distance between both receiver and emiter but also due to the fact that fighter aircraft can be faster than the sound so its very possible that an static receptor could see the plane pass in front of him and the sound is yet not perceived by receptor. The same happens to the changes the pilot makes in the throttle as they are perceived after some time depending of both effects descrived before. That would be a need also in a "future" sound engine for me.

Edited January 15, 2016 by watermanpc

[bart86pl]

I absolutely agree, the more I fly in DCS the more I notice the lack in sound department. We need some improvements here for sure!

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Yeah!, I would love to really make some stress on my nice sound setup (Bk Monolith included :smilewink:) with a sound as close to the REAL thing as possible and feeling some visceral, deep, infrasonic bass with high dynamic range level :music_whistling:

[5e EVC Chappy]

A realistic sound environment is definitely a must for a great level of immersion.