How come there's no F16 / F22 in the game?

[WinterH]

Even though I wouldn't be too interested in Raptor, I do aprreciate people would be interested in any aircraft they may like.

 

However, in case of F-22, I really doubt a DCS: F-22 can happen with halfway decent realism. Anyway, if it could and would happen, and people would want to enjoy it, bless them, and more power to them.

 

Though, it would be nigh unstoppable. At BVR, I'd say way more than may be, with basically the best radar and stealth features as well as the AIM-120 combined. As for dogfight, yeah it will still have some heat sig, and at dogfight ranges probably most radars would be able to lock it too. Yet, it will be so much more manevrable than anything else we have or will have in forseeble future, getting in a firing position before having to go defensive would be a diminishingly low chance. Besides, how often people can get into merge and win even against the Eagle?

 

Not that it'd bother me since I am not into airquake type of multiplayer myself, but for those who enjoy it, something like a Raptor would make things very, very hairy, unless it is the Raptor itself they want to fly. I think even the Typhoon will do so to some extent.

 

Though, I agree, even if fears that it would demolish multiplayer "arena" have truth, it still should not be a factor of decision whether a module should be made or not. In Raptor's case, I believe it rather is it is doubtful a halfway realistic depiction can be done for something so top of the line and relatively recent to enter service.

[The Black Swan]

Ya, we will probably have holodecks by the time the raptor is unclassified enough to simulate...

[Bushmanni]

You can still have F-22 vs. F-22 fight like we have F-15 vs. F-15 fights. I think fighting with more capable machines requires more abstract thinking and strategy while in older planes you are more concerned with switchology and just keeping the plane from departing. They are different beasts but you can't say one is easier than the other.

[Hummingbird]

Odd I thought it had already been confirmed that ED were set on making the F-16C. Guess I misread something o.O

[Buzzles]

Odd I thought it had already been confirmed that ED were set on making the F-16C. Guess I misread something o.O

 

ED posted some WIP screen shots many, many years ago.

 

They *were* working on it. Whether they are *still* working on it, or if it has been cancelled, is only something they know.

It's on the TBS site as a project that's in development, but that doesn't mean they're working on a public version.

 

About the only thing likely to happen at some point is a new 3d model, and that's only because of the general ED drive to update all their aircraft/art assets to a more modern standard.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Buzzles

[SkateZilla]

There hasnt been any F-16 Candy Since 2008ish (when renders of new external and pit were posted)

 

There was a vague post by a dev on the russian forum that said work on the F-16 Continues, but that was it.

[JABO2009]

There hasnt been any F-16 Candy Since 2008ish (when renders of new external and pit were posted)

 

There was a vague post by a dev on the russian forum that said work on the F-16 Continues, but that was it.

 

 

OK , then simply question: why is there such a mystery about DCS and F16 content ? ( full model or at least new 3d model)

 

A simply line by ED saying like " We are planing it, / Its not planned so far / its not possible atm due to licensing issue / only new 3d model etc. etc. " would save dozens of thread pages of speculation !

 

I mean the Moderator support and the feedback by Wags on specific topics here is awesome and always professional, why all this myth about F16 ? :unsure:

[SkateZilla]

Many things have changed since theybwere posted in 2008.

[DAZnBLAST]

You lot are talking about F16. There's not even ED talk of F18 which is being worked on! The fact there is no talk on F18 demonstrates how far away that module is, so we have zilch chance of F16!

[Belgeode]

You lot are talking about F16. There's not even ED talk of F18 which is being worked on! The fact there is no talk on F18 demonstrates how far away that module is, so we have zilch chance of F16!

 

Well there was that one video where Wags said "What are those F/A-18s doing there?" Usually that is a hint... Last time he said that was about the F-5E... during the video of the Mirage I think.

[keaSar]

Well, let's analyze together.

 

ED is currently working on the following:

- F/A-18

- DCSW 2.5. (including T4, vapor and explosion effects, ATC, etc)

- Spitfire Mk.IX

- Carrier Ops

- Strait of Hormuz map

- Normandy map

- PFM for Su-33 and Mig-29

- enhanced missile modeling.

 

A lot of work, isn't it? We can safely assume that the juicy plane like F-16 is reserved by ED and nobody will make it except them. So, the only thing we can discuss is when will it be released. Considering the list above we can predict that it will be made around 2018-2019.

This is without taking into consideration different political risks - you know Russia and so on.

[Steel Jaw]

Speaking as a long time member of the BMS community, we are not willing to give up our Dynamic Campaign engine by moving our hardcore Viper to DCSW. We are very happy with the state of the BMS sim andso I doubt the developers will ever consider it. And yes, we tend to be a little rabid.

 

I remember writing to the BMS developers and telling them if they would consider to make an F-16 module for DCS, since they already had much of the data it would be easier in some ways for them to create the aircraft here.

 

After post bombardment from BMS-ultranationalists drawing attention to the post, one guy (not sure 100% if he was developer or not) finally replied kindly saying they considered once, but decided to just work improving their sim instead.

 

But made me think, if they had considered it at some point, maybe a few more requests would persuade them to come over to the dark side. :beer:

Edited July 21, 2016 by Mower

[rrohde]

We can safely assume that the juicy plane like F-16 is reserved by ED and nobody will make it except them.

 

That would be nice indeed. ED's level of quality is unparalleled. :thumbup:

[dburne]

Two things I am most looking forward to.

The Straight of Hormuz map, and the integration into DCSW 2.5.

Bring it on ED!

[Seaeagle]

ED posted some WIP screen shots many, many years ago.

 

They *were* working on it. Whether they are *still* working on it, or if it has been cancelled, is only something they know.

It's on the TBS site as a project that's in development, but that doesn't mean they're working on a public version.

 

About the only thing likely to happen at some point is a new 3d model, and that's only because of the general ED drive to update all their aircraft/art assets to a more modern standard.

 

I beg to differ.

 

The WIP screenshots were not only for an external model, but also for a player cockpit and they wouldn't start building that unless they intended to use it at some point. Besides, as someone else mentioned, a developer confirmed a while back that they were still working on it. IIRC Wags also mentioned at some point, that development of the ground radar modes for the F-18 could form the basis for other projects such as the F-16.

 

So there is IMHO plenty of indications that they still intend to make an F-16 module along the way. But given the current list of projects, its probably not going to be right around the corner and it would be bad PR practise to announce(or even "tease" about) a project years ahead of its realisation......just look at the current situation with the F-18 :)

[VAF [136] Striker]

Speaking as a long time member of the BMS community, we are not willing to give up our Dynamic Campaign engine by moving our hardcore Viper to DCSW. We are very happy with the state of the BMS sim andso I doubt the developers will ever consider it. And yes, we tend to be a little rabid.

Buddyspike is actually doing a dynamic campaign for DCSW now. They do it all with special LUA code but I would say it's very close to the same concept. If ED decides to add a Viper......well there you go.

[keaSar]

If ED decides to add a Viper......well there you go.

 

I don't know. BMS community is a bit toxic, elitist and... well, it is overtly nationalistic towards other sims. Like flight-sim nazis, in fact. I am 100% sure that the majority of BMS players will use thier beloved sim even after DCS F-16 and DCS Dynamic Campaign release.

 

PS. I do think that Falcon BMS is currently the best combat flight sim.

[mvsgas]

If people play BMS or not why does it matter? Why does this conversation keeps turning into that? I think they have no correlation. When I fly in DCS, I do not say;"Well the A-10C can drop bombs, so I will never fly the SU-25". I just fly the the SU-25 and the A-10C because I may feel to fly one or the other. If ED or a 3rd party make an F-16 well, I will more likely buy it and will have no effect on me playing BMS or any other sim that is fun.

 

How many FPS are out there? If one is good, does that mean no other company can do another FPS? Same with RPG, etc. If one sim group/company makes a sim, why does it have any bearing on another group/company making another?

 

A USAF F-16A block 10 circa 1980 or a RoCAF F-16A block 20 circa 1995, even a RDAF F-16A block 20 MLU circa 2016 to a fictional F-16XL, all be different and fun. There is so many different F-16 configuration over the last 40 years.

Here is a Lockheed-Martin link to a new F-16 buyer options;

current options

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/m/us/products/f16/f16currentopts.html

Future options

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/m/us/products/f16/f16futureopts.html

Edited July 22, 2016 by mvsgas

[mvsgas]

[Astrix_au]

Much of development requires input from the designers, copyright holders, and (most importantly) the nations who defense systems depend on these aircraft.

 

The F-22A is far too classified for addition to DCS.

 

You do realise there was a game years ago with the F22 called F22 ADF by Digital Image design, that game reworked would be awesome.

[Buzzles]

You do realise there was a game years ago with the F22 called F22 ADF by Digital Image design, that game reworked would be awesome.

 

And? There was nothing realistic in it aside from the 3d model.

[WinterH]

You do realise there was a game years ago with the F22 called F22 ADF by Digital Image design, that game reworked would be awesome.

There was also a JSF game in 1997, before which of X-32 and X-35 would become the JSF was even decided. Seeing that F-35 is just barely entering less than full capability service nowadays, that game is about two decades before what the real life aircraft would be was known even by it's designers/operators.

 

Go figure how much can that align with full fidelity DCS modules :).

[Boberro]

You do realise there was a game years ago with the F22 called F22 ADF by Digital Image design, that game reworked would be awesome.

 

Game with realism of Mario:D

[Aginor]

Yeah, sorry @Astrix_au, but that is not nearly the level DCS stands for.

 

When people in this community say "you cannot simulate it in DCS" they mean that it isn't possible in the quality we would have to be aiming for, concerning the systems model and flight model.

 

EDIT: Look at the F-22 in Jane's USAF. Back then it was pretty cool, but compared to DCSW, even to the FC3 planes, it was pretty lame.

 

And welcome to the forums! :)

[Beamscanner]

I don't know. BMS community is a bit toxic, elitist and... well, it is overtly nationalistic towards other sims. Like flight-sim nazis, in fact. I am 100% sure that the majority of BMS players will use thier beloved sim even after DCS F-16 and DCS Dynamic Campaign release.

 

PS. I do think that Falcon BMS is currently the best combat flight sim.

The Dynamic Campaign is the main reason I fly BMS.. If a Dynamic Campaign (with a progressive OOB that takes into account what you've destroyed) makes it to DCS, I'm done with BMS..