Just purchased the Gazelle

[Zimmerdylan]

So after long deliberation, I decided to purchase the Gazelle. I would like to share my first impressions of this module with those who do not own it. Please keep in mind that I am not a pilot. I do not spend much time on the internet looking up every detail on every aircraft that DCS puts out, or any aircraft for that matter. It's just not that important to me.

I judge modules on how they feel to me, and if I have an issue with something, I do some research and in some cases I will share what I have learned with others on the forums. But when it comes down to tit for tat, or whether something feels real, not real, good, or just plain bad, I believe that we can all judge with some degree of accuracy. There have been issues where I absolutely knew something was not correct in a module. I brought it to the forums, was promptly skewered for it, told how wrong I was by all, and 2 weeks later the issue I had problems with was completely fixed in a patch or upgrade. So I know that I am not completely wrong on some of these issues. But the conclusion that I have come to (and it has brought me peace of mind) is that you cannot expect a computer simulation to be accurate to real life. You just can't. DCS has given me many hours of pleasure and fun whether it's any where near reality or not. I still enjoy it very much.

All of that being said: I got the Gazelle, did a quick tutorial on startup. Got to where I knew how to get if fired up and started flying. Now....I have only taken the Gazelle out for 3 or 4 flights. But I have to say. In my opinion, it acts, flies, and feels closer to what I expect a chopper should be than any other DCS chopper, or plane for that matter. The response of the collective, rudder pedals, and stick are just right there. It is every bit as sensitive and yet not sensitive as I would expect. It's hard to explain, but it's right on the money. With the Huey or MI8, the controls are OK, and I got use to the way each handles and responds, but I never feel as though either handled anything like the real aircraft. They are (to me anyway) fun aircraft that handle the way they do because they are on a PC and are stuck with those limitations. But the Gazelle just blew all of this out of the water for me. The cockpit has that cramped space feel without feeling claustrophobic. It does not have that over sized feeling that the Mi-8 gives me, and that “everything can get to closed in" feeling when I zoom in on the Huey cockpit to emulate really sitting in the seat. The funny thing is that I never knew exactly why those AC didn't feel as real as I thought they should until I purchased the Gazelle today. Honestly....I never paid much attention. In the Gazelle the cockpit is just perfect in size and proportion. Now....I flew in a lot of Hueys back in the early 80's while in the military. I know just how maneuverable those choppers can be and just how stable they can be in the hands of a skilled CW4 as opposed to some young butter bar. I had the daylights scared out of me by both. Warrant officers scared you and made you down wright sick to your stomach just to mess with ya.:pain: Lieutenants scared ya because they had no choice sometimes.:cry: And from my time in the military, the Gazelle from Polychop seems to be able to readily respond and give a visual and feel that's just perfect as though you are really swinging around the sky with a good CW4 at the wheel. It's truly amazing how well it is modeled. And what really gets me is that they got the visual of the shaking of the AC so well. It's right there with accuracy. I don't know how they did it :dunno: but it's pretty vivid and brings me right back to my army days. Just amazing!

This is a very nice module and I am sure that it's only going to get better. I'm going to take my time with this and enjoy just flying it for a while. Then I'll learn more of the systems and get more serious with it. I really enjoy flying all of the choppers in DCS and I am not complaining about the Huey, or the Mi-8. I just have always considered them to be a very fun hobby that I felt could never really be accurate to real life. And I absolutely enjoyed them on that level. Polychop has set a new standard here and it's great!

Thanks so much guys for your hard work and this most excellent of modules. This craft is on the top of my list and I am sure that it will be for a long time!:imho:

Edited October 17, 2016 by Zimmerdylan

[Napa]

Thanks for this review. Looking forward to buy it as well and its a chopper used by the military here too.

 

When I first saw the first screenshots of early development back then I never thought this project would come this far but hats off to Polychop sims for getting this far and at this immense detail. They deserve every penny :thumbup:

[BronzeYardNo11]

In my opinion, it acts, flies, and feels closer to what I expect a chopper should be than any other DCS chopper

 

hahaha

 

check out the rest of the forums, you'll find numerous threads that will very well change your opinion :/

[Zimmerdylan]

hahaha

 

check out the rest of the forums, you'll find numerous threads that will very well change your opinion :/

 

 

Just goes to show you how every person is different in their sense of feel, or their taste in these modules. I have heard a lot of people tell me how hard this thing is to fly. "It's too sensitive" "it's movements are way overstated". But for me, the reaction of all 3 components of the rudder, collective, and stick are syncopated to one another much better than the other choppers. In the Huey, when I hover and am adjusting the collective with the rudder, the movements are not well coordinated and there seems to be a lot of overcorrection on my part to compensate for that. In the Gazelle, I don't have this problem. When I move something, it moves and it moves accordingly. From my experience watching pilots, this is more accurate. And whether it is or not, my body tells me that it is because I can hover this craft with no effort whatsoever. While I still struggle with the Mi8 and Huey in certain situations, I can (after only a short time) maneuver the Gazelle pretty much any way I like without fighting. In the Mi8, it is much more difficult to work with the autopilot features. There are all of these tutorials about it and yet still so many people cannot do it correctly. It took me a long while. Not so in the Gazelle.

 

It's kind of funny though. When the BF109 came out. There was this overwhelming response of people saying that there is no way any AC could be this hard to fly. That it's not realistic. Threads and threads of complaints. I was one of those complainers. But after a time, everyone got use to it and now it's a very popular plane. And many of those people complaining are now saying how accurate it is. Yet it has not changed all that much. I stopped looking for "reality" in PC flight simulation and started going with what feels right for me. And what I would think feels real in MY hands. Going on the internet and reading tons of literature, downloading charts, and trying to get something out of interviews with real pilots only adds to most people's frustration. For me.....it's a hobby. Something to do when I have nothing else going on. I have no real desire to become a gaming guru. Nor will anyone who has never piloted any of these AC be experts on their handling.

So....realistic or not, I find it a much more maneuverable AC.

 

.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Zimmerdylan

[BronzeYardNo11]

started going with what feels right for me

:doh:

 

You have some pretty low standards for flight sims. If you don't care about realism, then don't say how real the FM feels to you.

Edited October 18, 2016 by NixNB

[Mt5_Roie]

Glad your enjoying it! Have you tried MP yet?

 

Just goes to show you how every person is different in their sense of feel, or their taste in these modules. I have heard a lot of people tell me how hard this thing is to fly. "It's too sensitive" "it's movements are way overstated". But for me, the reaction of all 3 components of the rudder, collective, and stick are syncopated to one another much better than the other choppers. In the Huey, when I hover and am adjusting the collective with the rudder, the movements are not well coordinated and there seems to be a lot of overcorrection on my part to compensate for that. In the Gazelle, I don't have this problem. When I move something, it moves and it moves accordingly. From my experience watching pilots, this is more accurate. And whether it is or not, my body tells me that it is because I can hover this craft with no effort whatsoever. While I still struggle with the Mi8 and Huey in certain situations, I can (after only a short time) maneuver the Gazelle pretty much any way I like without fighting. In the Mi8, it is much more difficult to work with the autopilot features. There are all of these tutorials about it and yet still so many people cannot do it correctly. It took me a long while. Not so in the Gazelle.

 

It's kind of funny though. When the BF109 came out. There was this overwhelming response of people saying that there is no way any AC could be this hard to fly. That it's not realistic. Threads and threads of complaints. I was one of those complainers. But after a time, everyone got use to it and now it's a very popular plane. And many of those people complaining are now saying how accurate it is. Yet it has not changed all that much. I stopped looking for "reality" in PC flight simulation and started going with what feels right for me. And what I would think feels real in MY hands. Going on the internet and reading tons of literature, downloading charts, and trying to get something out of interviews with real pilots only adds to most people's frustration. For me.....it's a hobby. Something to do when I have nothing else going on. I have no real desire to become a gaming guru. Nor will anyone who has never piloted any of these AC be experts on their handling.

So....realistic or not, I find it a much more maneuverable AC.

 

.

[cromhunt]

hey:)

Good to see someone appreciate helos in DCS and Gazelle particularly:)

You are right "Zimmerdylan"i agree with all your assertions.Was a french pilot on gazelle and must to say that after the last patch ,we are able to play with it.It's also really please to feel differences,between UH1H and gazelle(was pilot on huey too).

Don't worry about complains and geeks that would like talking about Fm and so.

How can they say something to that when they never been in command on those helos?

DCS is a simulator ,it's not reality and never be:)

Just play and have fun.

If as "Poly roie"you would like to test a multiplay online ,i'm hosting a server at 20h00 GMT during 3 hours named:

!****cromhunt****!which is gathering the most complete exercices with helos could be.

give a look at this link please:

http://cromhunt.proboards.com/thread/311/missions-dcs-helicopter

see you :) and have a good game

[Hawkeye60]

hey

Good to see someone appreciate helos in DCS and Gazelle particularly

You are right "Zimmerdylan"i agree with all your assertions.Was a french pilot on gazelle and must to say that after the last patch ,we are able to play with it.It's also really please to feel differences,between UH1H and gazelle(was pilot on huey too).

Don't worry about complains and geeks that would like talking about Fm and so.

How can they say something to that when they never been in command on those helos?

DCS is a simulator ,it's not reality and never be

Just play and have fun.

Thank you for this post. It is good to hear from a former Gazelle pilot.

I stopped reading the bug reports and complaint threads.

 

Although they are useful to the devs for improvement, I find it gets depressing reading about all the "issues"

 

At this point in my life, 60 , I decided that having fun and doing what I love are more important than ever!

 

Flying the Gazelle fills this role quite nicely.:thumbup:

 

If you find a way to afford VR, run, don't walk to the nearest store. It was the best money Ive spent on my hobby (or is it obsession?) in years.

 

I have full faith in PolyChop to make the Gazelle the best helicopter in DCS. They have already shown their commitment to excellence in this regard.

 

I plan on buying every aircraft they produce. They deserve our full support.

 

Waiting is the hard part!

 

All the best.

[RabidRider]

I haven't flown the Gazelle yet, number one reason, the many comments about its flight model. I don't know when this last patch was done, but a quick scroll through the Gazelle forum brings up the following video, see post 43 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=174696&page=5

 

"Hard to take the Gazelle seriously", yes looking at this and other videos I must I agree. My overall impression is that -contrary to your statements- the Huey and the MI-8 both have very realistic flightmodels. They just feel great to fly. (perhaps the Huey -according to some- a bit more difficult than in real life)

 

Anyway, I would like to fly the Gazelle, but something tells me it's just not on par to BSTs products when it comes to the flight model, yet.

 

And one last gripe, the modeling of the gazelle, the BO is amazing, even better than BST imo (Huey textures look a bit bland in comparison), but the pilots, that's another thing. These are to me not the same quality as the rest of the 3d party developers, modeling or texturing. These characters really stand out like a sore thumb. I'd just turn the pilots off.

 

@cromhunt. On your website, the issues you bring up in the video (oct 6th) have these been resolved?

 

Perhaps the BO-105 will be more realistic with the MEDUSA system (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=146175 - don't know if this will be - or already is implemented with the Gazelle), time will tell I guess.

Edited October 19, 2016 by RabidRider

[NineLine]

Guys, I did a little cleaning, if you cant discuss issues without insulting each other or each others opinions then dont discuss at all.

[Len62]

Thank you for this post. It is good to hear from a former Gazelle pilot.

I stopped reading the bug reports and complaint threads.

 

Although they are useful to the devs for improvement, I find it gets depressing reading about all the "issues"

 

At this point in my life, 60 , I decided that having fun and doing what I love are more important than ever!

 

Flying the Gazelle fills this role quite nicely.:thumbup:

 

 

+1

[cromhunt]

Many comments of gazelle FM was before the last patch,and i was yelling with the wolves about it:)

Now we are able to play the module the least as easy than UH1H.

The issue reported on video is not yet fixed i think.But i think also that we have all of us to stop playing this game as we would be test pilot and compare with real.

MBB Bo 105 could be close to gazelle,and remember that both are from the same real factory in association with Sud Aviation.

Please think to play and get enjoy with these amazing modules:)

[Yurgon]

Thanks Zimmerdylan for the review! :thumbup:

 

It's refreshing to hear from someone enjoying the chopper rather than complaining about it. ;)

 

I guess there are still some issues with the FM. But honestly, for me the Gazelle has been a pure joy to fly right from the start. Right now it's better than ever, and I absolutely love it. Polychop did an outstanding job, and I'll grab the Bo-105 right out of their hands on release day, that much is sure. :D

[Zimmerdylan]

Thank you for this post. It is good to hear from a former Gazelle pilot.

I stopped reading the bug reports and complaint threads.

 

Although they are useful to the devs for improvement, I find it gets depressing reading about all the "issues"

 

At this point in my life, 60 , I decided that having fun and doing what I love are more important than ever!

 

Flying the Gazelle fills this role quite nicely.:thumbup:

 

If you find a way to afford VR, run, don't walk to the nearest store. It was the best money Ive spent on my hobby (or is it obsession?) in years.

 

I have full faith in PolyChop to make the Gazelle the best helicopter in DCS. They have already shown their commitment to excellence in this regard.

 

I plan on buying every aircraft they produce. They deserve our full support.

 

Waiting is the hard part!

 

All the best.

 

 

+1 +1 I agree that you cannot judge realism unless you have actually experienced the reality. I myself have sat in many a Huey and watched them being piloted. From what I have experienced, the balance in the Gazelle is much more accurate. We're not talking about some of the buggy little quirks. The actual craft looks and has the general feel of a chopper. More so than the Huey or Mi8.

For anyone to tell me that it's not realistic, it falls on deaf ears unless they can send me some absolute proof that they have been there and done it. I dismiss younger people who think they understand these things as "realistic" or not because I again draw from personal experience.

When I use to play COD and Battlefield, all of these high school kids would tout how realistic it all was, and I, having been a combat veteran would be just laughing and laughing to myself because there is no way you can get to the same city with the same ballpark of the realism of combat without actually being there. It is like nothing you have experienced or ever will experience once you leave it.

DCS is pretty much the same. You can look at all of the data you want, and all of the charts, and even talk to pilots, but if you never did it yourself, reality is just a word at that point.

All I know is that from my experience in helicopters (and I have flown in many, albeit 30-35 years ago), the Gazelle reacts more like the ones I have been in than their actual DCS counterparts. This does not mean that I do not like those AC. I fly them all of the time. All it means is that I see a new standard being set by the Gazelle. And yes, I notice some of the flaws and bugs. But it does not change the fact the it feels better.

Thx guys!

[zaelu]

I think you should send your resume to Belsimtek ;)

[BronzeYardNo11]

I've spent years riding in the passenger seat of a manual and when it came for me to start driving it all that experience riding along meant I knew EVERYTHING about driving a manual.

 

oh wait no.

[outlawal2]

I just tried the latest version of the Gazelle and it is better for sure and on the right track, but at this point IMHO it still feels too linear for my tastes.. By linear I mean once you set a particular trajectory it stays that way.. Not quite on "Rails" but the sensation is still similar to that.. Compared with the Huey which I feel is more realistic in that it wants to float all over the place.. Helicopters (especially smaller ones) act much like an air hockey puck... When trying to hover it WILL move in one direction or other unless you put in minute inputs to correct... And unlike the air hockey analogy, it will do this on all axis including up and down. I don't get this sensation with the Gazelle in it's current state of tune..

 

And for the record I DO have experience as a pilot in very small helicopters and I can tell you from experience that light helicopters are amazingly twitchy and require very tiny inputs to control them.. At the moment the Gazelle is great fun to fly but not yet completely realistic..

 

This is not a criticism simply my opinion and take it for what it is worth..

[Slazi]

I just tried the latest version of the Gazelle and it is better for sure and on the right track, but at this point IMHO it still feels too linear for my tastes..

 

I put that down to the SAS and the other AP channels, but I have no experience. I'd love to see more critisism from former military pilots who have experience with this version of the Gazelle.

[Rogue Trooper]

I put that down to the SAS and the other AP channels, but I have no experience. I'd love to see more critisism from former military pilots who have experience with this version of the Gazelle.

 

I would also agree here, the strength of the automated systems is an unknown for us simmers as well as real life pilots that have not flown this type. Strong is the automated systems from Europe.

 

Again it reminds me of Huey pilots that tried the OH-6 during the Vietnam war.

 

"uncontrollable Death traps" was the cry from Huey pilots.

"I would not want to crash in any other chopper" was the response from OH-6 pilots!

 

:D Fu£*in A!

[Zimmerdylan]

I've spent years riding in the passenger seat of a manual and when it came for me to start driving it all that experience riding along meant I knew EVERYTHING about driving a manual.

 

oh wait no.

 

 

And how many years did you spend in military choppers? That's like comparing apples to bowling balls. Speaking of which, I've watched people golf for years and my Wii has a golf game. Man....how unrealistic is that?

Dude....you just made my point for me....thank you. You cannot say that you know it's not realistic because your comparison just made that point.

My OP said that if felt realistic in my opinion based on my experience watching others and actually feeling the movement of the chopper. I went on to further say that this sim (or any other for that matter) in no way closely resembles reality. And that too is from very personal experience. There were times that I really thought I wasn't going to make it home during some of those rides in the military. But from MY EXPERIENCE, it is my opinion that this module feels better than others. In no way did I say that it was a fact set in stone.

You on the other hand are saying that you know for a fact that it's inaccurate based largely on the words of others who posted in these forums. But what you are really telling me is that you can drive a clutch based on the words of another who watched someone else drive the clutch. Your taking this all waaaay to seriously. Both you and I have opinions of this. Neither of us are stating any facts because we don't actually know the facts. But the difference is that I am making this perfectly clear. Your just beating a dead horse by arguing opinion. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that in your opinion based on what you have heard or read, it's not realistic. That would be a fact. At that point I would actually consider what your saying to me because that's a rational way of making your point.

Again....Understanding that most everything is about perception will get you

a lot further in life than trying to tell all that you know and they don't. Trust me....I've been there. We all have. Just relax, your point is taken, but with a grain of salt because of the way you are trying to make it. That's why so many posts end badly with people getting warnings.

At this point I'm kinda done with this particular conversation. Sorry to have ruffled your feathers. Hope we can be more friendly from here on in.:D

[Zimmerdylan]

Thanks Zimmerdylan for the review! :thumbup:

 

It's refreshing to hear from someone enjoying the chopper rather than complaining about it. ;)

 

I guess there are still some issues with the FM. But honestly, for me the Gazelle has been a pure joy to fly right from the start. Right now it's better than ever, and I absolutely love it. Polychop did an outstanding job, and I'll grab the Bo-105 right out of their hands on release day, that much is sure. :D

 

 

I don't really care about the bugs, I love this chopper.

[Devrim]

I (a little bit) care about bugs, but really love this bird.

Gazelle is a complete new fresh air for DCS helicopter pilots - I guess. :)

[0xDEADBEEF]

"It's too sensitive" "it's movements are way overstated". But for me, the reaction of all 3 components of the rudder, collective, and stick are syncopated to one another much better than the other choppers.

 

Noone who seriously criticized the flightmodel (apart from the braggers) ever said its way overstated or too sensitive, we spent a fair effort bringing up fair points. It just does not behave like a real helicopter. The 3 controls being "syncopated" comes from them being completely disconnected from each other. You can press pedal any direction any deflection without needing to compensate on cyclic, the very same goes for collective, it just is not connected to cyclic - at all. This may be fun for you to fly (nothing wrong with that), but it just does not make it more realistic ;)

 

You may say now: it's a game and it will never reach the real deal. I agree on the latter, but we can get closer and closer, even though we will never achieve 100% realism. Computers are getting faster and more capable, and devlopers get more experience. Unfortunately like I stated in multiple threads, the current FM of the Gazelle is nowhere near as realistic as the competition. I also disagree in this being "just a game", it is a simulator and has the claim to be as near to the real as possible, and I stand the strong opinion that it is possible to get a lot closer to the real thing than it is right now.

 

If there was noone bringing up points about what is wrong with the FM, it would not improve.

 

I personally find it sad when real-life Gazelle Pilots say: "it's just a game, and for a game it is sufficiently modeled", because that is not going to make the module any better. I think the superb systems modeling and work on the 3D-Models deserves a much more realistic FM.

 

But hey, let's give polychop some time and lets see what they come up with. :thumbup:

 

In the Huey, when I hover and am adjusting the collective with the rudder, the movements are not well coordinated and there seems to be a lot of overcorrection on my part to compensate for that. In the Gazelle, I don't have this problem.

 

It is called "Pilot Induced Oscillation", and is something every beginner does (not exclusive to simulators at all and happens on fixedwing as well as rotary aircraft). The mean thing in simulators is, you don't have your "butt-meter" helping you with sensing motion, so it is even easier to get into PIO.

[Whisper]

The mean thing in simulators is, you don't have your "butt-meter" helping you with sensing motion, so it is even easier to get into PIO.

Has anyone actually considered implementing a "butt meter" in simulation? Essentially a visual feedback of vertical acceleration.

[RabidRider]

I bought the Gazelle module last week, and unfortunately my views remain the same, in agreement with 0xDEADBEEF. And that comment on pilot induced oscillations, huey or gazelle is very telling. I do not find the sensitivity of the Gazelle a problem at all, this is one of few things which are realistic, just as the huey is more sluggish and the Mi-8 even more so, but in other important aspects, the FM is just not on par with the Mi-8 or Huey imo. I'll guess I'll wait for the Hind or Cobra for my next purchase. BST just nails heli flight dynamics.