I'm Undecided

[BuzzU]

I need a bit of help with your opinions.

 

Originally, I bought DCS to fly the A-10C. It's the reason I bought the Warthog controller. I also bought a new gaming system. A big investment for an old coot living on an SS check. Then I had problems with my new system with stutters. I was beyond discouraged and came very close to giving up on DCS because I had no problem with other games.

 

So, the stutter problem is finally fixed and DCS runs smooth now. I have the P-51 which I love, A-10C and F3. I like the F-15 and would love to become a good F-15 pilot. The same with the A-10c and P-51. No way for me to do all three. Especially, with the A-10c in the mix. It would have to be a dedication to one plane for me to have any kind of success.

 

So, you A-10C pilots. Tell me why I should pick the A-10C? It's certainly the hardest plane to learn and probably just as hard to use effectively. That can be very rewarding for an old coot like me. If I could even do it. Why should I choose it over the other two planes?

 

I'm struggling with this decision, so any help will be appreciated. :)

[cichlidfan]

The three aircraft are so completely different in terms of combat style, necessary flight skills and avionics, that it really depends on what you want to get out of the experience.

[al531246]

The question should be - why shouldn't you chose the A-10C? It's by far and away the most complex and rewarding aircraft in DCS right now. Period.

 

 

 

 

 

[baltic_dragon]

Hey BuzzU,

 

Yes, A-10C is difficult to master. It can be very forgiving but the sheer amount of things you have to learn may be discouraging. But at the same time it is incredibly rewarding - with each system you master, each weapon you learn to proficiently use the feeling just gets better and better. And this is also a good thing - no matter how much time you spend flying, there is always something new to learn.

 

There is also plenty of campaigns and missions available for the A-10C, which is important I guess.

 

F-15 is very nice to fly, but without most of the systems clickable / functional it feels somewhat arcade-ish (though it is by no means easy). Still it is good to fly and may be a good first choice.

 

Can't comment on on P-51 really.

[Esac_mirmidon]

DCS level module always.

 

A-10C.

[Buzzles]

Impossible to answer without you giving context of what you want to do in DCS.

[BuzzU]

I should have mentioned I have years flying WW2 planes in IL2. So, the P-51 would take the least amount of work to fly. My biggest problem is my eyesight is not so good anymore and I have a hard time seeing the enemy planes. The F-15 I have some experience in Lock On, but not a whole lot and most is forgotten over the years since I did it. It is simple compared to the A-10C, but a more complex version is supposed to be coming.

 

The A-10C is new to me and i'd be starting from scratch. I do like the old ugly girl and it would be to learn her. At least my stick is all programmed. One less thing to mess with other than remembering it all.

[BuzzU]

Impossible to answer without you giving context of what you want to do in DCS.

 

 

My goal is to get good with one plane and maybe join a squad if anybody would have me.

[Yurgon]

It's certainly the hardest plane to learn and probably just as hard to use effectively.

 

Well said! So, isn't that encouragement enough? :D

 

Kidding aside, I find the A-10C very easy to fly and very forgiving to land. Taking off and landing isn't a challenge, which is pretty much the opposite of warbirds like the P-51.

 

But the systems modelling is so insanely deep! Just the other day I had a discussion with a fellow A-10 pilot about some of the electrical systems and we both learned something new.

 

To underscore what Baltic Dragon said, I alwawys like to point out that I've flown the A-10C since Beta, and I'm still learning new stuff with almost every flight.

 

I find this module insanely rewarding. It just never gets old or boring, and I know I still have some obvious gaps in my systems knowledge, plus probably many more gaps I'm not even aware of.

 

IMO you just can't go wrong with the A-10C. Unless you like to fly fast, in which case both other aircraft types will be superior. :D

[BuzzU]

I'm absorbing all your comments. Thanks.

 

I'll make a decision soon because I want to get started.

[Bearfoot]

So a dissenting voice here, to balance the no doubt brimming with enthusiasm endorsements to follow ...

 

I have the A-10C.

 

LUUUUUUUUUURVE the avionics/systems complexity of the A-10C.

 

The problem, for me, was the (a) actual flying (as in pilotage required, or, rather, lack thereof) and (b) the mission.

 

(a) Flying the A-10C is straightforward and simple, to the point that after you get past the basics (e.g., not stalling in a turn by keeping your speed up), the actual flying (as opposed to fighting) is utterly non-interesting. From take off to cruise to loiter to landing, my inner virtual pilot itch was just not scratched.

 

(b) Then there is the "loiter around and bang up a bunch of ground targets" mission. This one got a little old for me after a bit. Sure the jeopardy of this can be increased by increasing AA defenses, and that ups the thrills for a little bit, but the basic mission is still the same. Sure you can use it like on more strike/BAI type mission, and, from what I can make out, this is how most folks actually use this bird for sustained interest. But then, why not go for a strike aircraft like the Viggen? Now, weirdly, I love the anti-ground mission in the Gazelle M/L, Huey (gunship), F-86, P-51D, (and, in the "other" sim: Bf-110, Ju-88, Pe-2, etc.). I think that's because of the piloting demanded by these platforms in conjunction with the mission, rather than just the mission itself.

 

So both of these problems are very, very, very personal and idiosyncratic, and, almost tautologically, will not be shared by the A-10C fans. But that's the key point: liking or disliking an aircraft is a personal choice!

 

The main thing, I suppose that you might take away, is that the complexity of the aircraft is not the issue here, or, at least, the only issue. It is, at worst, something you will be able to deal with eventually, and, at best, you will come to enjoy learning with a passion. The issue is whether or not you will like what the aircraft does once you have gotten past the basic learning curve. (And I say "basic", because the A-10C is like an onion: there are many levels of complexities that you can fly it at, from almost like an A-10A to something like the ECM officer on a B1)!

[Flagrum]

That is not a rhetorical question?

 

If not, then the answer is simple:

 

 

[BuzzU]

Bearfoot..........You hit the nail on the head. I think that's what i'm struggling with. I'm a fighter by nature. I boxed and competed in karate matches when I was younger. Even now at 74 I hunt for bear all alone in the Rockies with a flintlock rifle. One shot that might or might not go off with no backup other than a bowie knife. I guess I need the excitement to really enjoy something.

 

Can the A-10c scratch that itch, or do I need a fighter?

[mastersetter]

One thing that I have found frustrating about the a10c module, is that it's very difficult to spot ground targets, a lot of the mission time is spent loitering at altitude, trying to locate targets using the tgp. In the end I had to resort to using modified labels, just to help me locate things and help my SA, I was getting nowhere otherwise :(

Edited April 29, 2017 by mastersetter
typo..

[BuzzU]

One thing that I have found frustrating about the a10c module, is that it's very difficult to spot ground targets, a lot of the mission time is spent loitering at altitude, trying to locate targets using the tgp. In the end I had to resort to using modified labels, just to help me locate things and help my SA, I was getting nowhere otherwise :(

 

I've run a few missions with the A-10C and found out the same thing, but I was just using guns. I tried labels and it was worse because the label got in the way.

 

What did you do to modify a label? At some point i'd like to fly without them, but to learn it would be ok.

 

Then again flying the WW2 planes is hard to find the planes too. I hope they fix that a bit. I think that's what appeals to me about the F-15. Planes are found with the radar and if a dogfight happens up close i've screwed up.

 

All three planes have their pros and cons.

[Buzzles]

My goal is to get good with one plane and maybe join a squad if anybody would have me.

 

Yeah, but good at doing what, or with a squad doing what?

 

A2A? A2G? Aerobatics?

[BuzzU]

Wouldn't that depend on the plane? Although it won't be aerobatics. I want to fight.

 

Aerobatics is fun. I flew RC planes on a high level for years. (pattern)

[slowhand]

EZ Pick you can't get BBBBRRRTTT!!!:megalol: from the Pony or the Eagle:music_whistling:

[Yurgon]

So a dissenting voice here, to balance the no doubt brimming with enthusiasm endorsements to follow ...

 

While I obviously enjoy the A-10C more than you do, that was a very good and balanced post with lots of good points! :thumbup:

 

I've run a few missions with the A-10C and found out the same thing, but I was just using guns. I tried labels and it was worse because the label got in the way.

 

Target visibility has certainly gone through many iterations, most of them probably not intended.

 

Then again, I've read numerous books on RL A-10 operations, and it's not exactly easy for real pilots, either. Most of the time, the ROE contribute to making their lives a lot harder yet. The TGP, which we take for granted, was pretty much a game-changer when it was first deployed over 10 years ago.

 

As a CAS aircraft, the A-10 hardly ever loiters around to kill targets of opportunity. Pilots usually get a very specific target and have to communicate with JTACs and other air assets in order to best engage that. Especially when fighting infantery, I believe pilots don't actually see the soldiers -- they engage an area or a landmark that was verbally described to them. Good and varied missions should take that into account (and I realize that these missions are limited in comparison to the many, many missions that are available for the A-10C).

 

Personally, I find the technical aspects of operating the aircraft's systems and sensors and also the technical aspects of finding and engaging the enemy with stand-off advantage to be incredibly interesting and also highly rewarding.

 

But I can easily understand how the more hands-on approach of the low-tech warbirds, which do require a lot more finesse on the controls, is more appealing. It's just that, after not crashing Kurfürst and Dora for 5 consecutive take-offs and landings, I came back to the A-10C and thought, yeah, this is evolution. But most importantly, I simply love it! :thumbup:

[BuzzU]

I've had an offer from a squad, so I have more to think about. They don't fly the P-51, so that means it's down to two planes.

[ex81]

I should have mentioned I have years flying WW2 planes in IL2. So, the P-51 would take the least amount of work to fly. My biggest problem is my eyesight is not so good anymore and I have a hard time seeing the enemy planes. The F-15 I have some experience in Lock On, but not a whole lot and most is forgotten over the years since I did it. It is simple compared to the A-10C, but a more complex version is supposed to be coming.

 

The A-10C is new to me and i'd be starting from scratch. I do like the old ugly girl and it would be to learn her. At least my stick is all programmed. One less thing to mess with other than remembering it all.

 

GET IT, LEARN IT, ENJOY IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! A 10 is all you need to have fun with DCS.

I started with the warthog more then a year ago. Don`t wanna miss it a single day.

And it`s not that difficult as you may thing at the beginning.

b.t.w. even at my age ... Yes we can:thumbup:

Edited April 29, 2017 by ex81

[chardly38]

It took me a month of training missions and youtube to get the A10 down. I love ground and pound. Its my favorite.

[Xavven]

The A-10C is my favorite plane to fly, but you sound more like a fighter pilot with your competitive nature. Do you like PvP? If so, you are probably going to enjoy the F-15C more. There's a bit more "thrill" to the F-15C as you bleed the enemy aircraft of energy and make that last turn to get a guns kill, or get a HAGS shot and pull out of the dive going mach 1.2 pulling 6 G.

 

The A-10C is, to me, more an exercise of patience, caution, observation, planning the attack, and methodical execution. Sure, there's the chaos of trying to save a convoy from a rushing tank column -- you'll have frantic and exiting moments, but for the adrenaline/dopamine rush, the F-15C has a little more in my experience.

[Zodiac]

The question should be - why shouldn't you chose the A-10C? It's by far and away the most complex and rewarding aircraft in DCS right now. Period.

 

 

 

 

 

+1:thumbup:

[Kippy]

Having flown the DCS A-10C for nearly two and a half years now, picking up other modules such as the F-5E and the F-15C on the side, I can still say with utmost confidence that the A-10C still stands at the top of the top of the DCS pedestal. While the A-10C is in my opinion the most complex aircraft in DCS, I always recommend it as the first module everybody should fly. Here's why.

 

The A-10C is easy to fly, and has very forgiving maneuverability characteristics. As such, it's a good aircraft to learn the basic principles of flight relating to the combat environment such as energy management, high performance turns, and even some basic air combat maneuvering. It retains very good pitch and roll authority throughout maneuvers all the way to the stall and is no stranger to maneuvering at a wide range of airspeeds, as slow as 140 knots to as fast as 340 knots. The A-10 is often harped on for having an airspeed indicator that may be confused for a calendar and occasionaly suffers birdstrikes from the rear, but truthfully her slow speed I see as an upside. It allows pilots the leisure to relax, absorb information and take things slowly rather than worrying about arranging a meeting with the ground at 500 knots. The A-10 will teach you many necessary skills. Her ideal traits all culminate into what is effectively a good training aircraft - very capable and very forgiving.

 

While the A-10 is very easy to fly, the complexity of the aircraft rears it's head when we step into the cockpit and start to work the systems. The A-10C has the most advanced avionics and targeting suites of any aircraft in DCS, allowing the A-10C to fill a wide variety of roles - from a low and slow CAS monkey to a high altitude surgical strike platform. While many pilots talk of the A-10C being an intimidating aircraft to learn, I think the complexity of the Pig's systems are far exaggerated. The A-10C's systems are all very straightforward, and simply take practice and patience to learn. It's not hard per se, and it's not scary - you just have to be willing to spend some time before and after each flight skimming through a pdf file, and here's the kicker, reading about some of the aircraft's capabilities and methods to employing it's systems. I recommend that if you learn better like this, to learn the A-10C's systems in small bites. Spend one day or so learning how to set up weapon profiles, and maybe the next day you'd spend learning how to work the targeting pod. Despite all the talk of the A-10C's intimidating systems, nobody mentions that you don't have to learn absolutely everything all at once. I actually advise just the opposite, that way you can really spend time with different systems and learn them up and down.

 

Once you learn the A-10C's systems, it's time to get kinetic and put some ordinance on target, which is another aspect to learning the A-10C that can be taken in small bites. It's best to start your weapons training learning the A-10C's most practical weapon, the GAU-8/A, then jumping to dumb bombs, jumping again to guided bombs, cluster bombs, Mavericks, and so on. What I can promise you is that the A-10C is the most rewarding aircraft to fly in DCS - There is no better feeling for me than watching a Maverick slide off the rail and bust a SAM site in two. Again, the learning process for the A-10's weapons is one best taken in small bites and doesn't have to happen all at once, but ultimately how to learn is up to you.

 

Combined with a superior knowledge of the A-10C's systems and weapons, you will be single-handedly the most lethal aircraft in DCS. The A-10C has a wide range of powerful weapons at it's disposal - from the reliable and effective AGM-65 family, to the devastating and precise GBU family, the downright scarily destructive CBU family, and the star of the show, the awe-inspiring multitool, the GAU-8/A. The A-10 stands completely unchallenged in terms of sheer firepower for all of the DCS modules, and you'll never forget that as you wipe out an entire hostile FOB.

 

The A-10 is easily the biggest challenge in DCS, but I am very confident is the most capable and most rewarding module. The DCS community has always orbited around the DCS A-10C as it's flagship module, and it has a great community of pilots here to help you learn along the way. I've personally shown the ropes to a few pilots with the A-10C and would be more than happy to help you learn the A-10C as well Buzz. I hope you decide to fly the Pig, keep us posted on our decision!

 

Blue Skies and Tailwinds.