DCS: Mi-24P - What we know + Discussion

[Mars Exulte]

I fear to "be pushed" to buy a new computer just to enjoy the Mi-24... as now, I am already not able to fly Mig-21 anymore due to quite a big performance drop after 2.5.6 :cry:.

 

Have you tried it since the patch before last? My take on the patchnotes was they changed the textures from 8k to 4k and added lower res textures besides, presumably for different graphic settings. This should have had several effects : lowering download size and improved performance. Assuming my understanding was correct.

[Grajo]

Have you tried it since the patch before last? My take on the patchnotes was they changed the textures from 8k to 4k and added lower res textures besides, presumably for different graphic settings. This should have had several effects : lowering download size and improved performance. Assuming my understanding was correct.

 

Tested it today, might be the new beta volumetric lights or something but the framerate drops to 8 and goes out slowly to 45 and down again to 10... in a kinda weird buggy loop.

[Grajo]

Downgraded Nvidia drivers as advised by rossmum and streakeagle in this post:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4382753#post4382753

 

Now MiG-21 works a lot better for me :]. Hopefully, my laptop will handle the Mi-24P, fingers crossed.

[Razorback]

The syrian map is coming (see the Weekly newsletter)...

And than we expect the Mi-24P :smilewink:

I feel like my dreams are coming true...:D:D

 

My opinion is that the syrian map will become the perfect map for our favorite Hind...New and realistic environment, plenty of possible coalitions, insurgents an conventional army...just wouawwww

Hope for the best !

[RastaPutin]

I am growing old. Really! Soon, though I hope not too soon , I will slip off the plate. I don't fly or buy Yankee modules , That's not why I'm here! If I wanted that Id 'play' Falcon 4. I never have. I've been flying this sim since before it was a sim, just a 3 1/2 inch floppy disc, a free-bee on a computing magazine. Was just the tip of the Crimea around Sevastopol. No Joystick, just keypad. Wire frame terrain. Even before Wags was on the scene. I knew then it was the best 'civilian' military sim ... by far ... basic ... but the flight model was superb ... I love the Russian modules. I want them. They are alive, connected... I have no interest in Uncle Sam and the zillion dollar bullet ... I want, I need to hear the strains of Alexander Alexandrov,roaring from the jet nozzle. WHERE IS MY Hind! My Mi24! .... I want it, I need it NOW!... Make an old man happy ... lets drink some YPV together (a 159thGAR reference ... the squad ive been with for nearly 20 years) and build this great module soon. before my time is up. The SU33 - 27 - 25 , Mi8, Ka50 and the Mi24 .... heaven! What more could a pilot ask for? Come on ... please!:pilotfly:

[Eldur]

:thumbup: I came to the exact same conclusion as you !

Now, it's MI-24 TIME ! :D:D hopefully...

 

Well, it's been a while...

 

 

I'll still miss the YakB turret though which would have been too awesome especially in VR. I guess hitting things reliably with that fixed GSh-30-2 will require *some* practice

[molevitch]

For those who just cannot wait any longer....https://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/hind-the-russian-combat-helicopter-simulation/

 

:music_whistling::music_whistling:

[Razorback]

Well, it's been a while...

 

 

I'll still miss the YakB turret though which would have been too awesome especially in VR. I guess hitting things reliably with that fixed GSh-30-2 will require *some* practice

 

 

Nice ! :smilewink:

The german version...

 

Do you have some available screenshots ? :lol:

[corn322]

Nice! I've got a copy of Hind as well.

[Mars Exulte]

Maaan, I missed out on so much cool stuff. I must have been living under a rock all those years.

[VampireNZ]

...

I'll still miss the YakB turret though which would have been too awesome especially in VR. I guess hitting things reliably with that fixed GSh-30-2 will require *some* practice

 

 

Eh don't sweat it - Russian bullets find target by themselves - no aiming required!! :thumbup:

 

 

 

 

The GSh pod on the Mi-8 is actually really easy to hit the target with, imagine the Hind will be the same.

Really looking fwd to the Mi-24 coming to DCS!!

 

 

 

(P.S Yes I know the Mi-24 is flying closed combat - fire when lead fires etc...)

[Fri13]

 

I'll still miss the YakB turret though which would have been too awesome especially in VR. I guess hitting things reliably with that fixed GSh-30-2 will require *some* practice

 

I Will Be missing that as well.

 

So wanted to see it instead cannon. As flying coop with gunner would have been so much more fun.

I don't see much use for that 30mm cannon for some reason....

 

But now I am more interested how they will make the co-pilot sighting system work in VR....

 

I don't want to see 'press button and whole view is through it' like a fixed side door guns in Mi-8.

 

I so have enjoyed flying HIND, old but Goldie.

Just marvelous how they managed pull such a simulator back then...

[S.E.Bulba]

Google Translate

 

Eh don't sweat it - Russian bullets find target by themselves - no aiming required!! :thumbup:…

Russian bullets find target by themselves, because they are so instructed by the manual during the flight in pairs engaging ground targets. :)

<…>

[ATTACH]228824[/ATTACH]

<…>

Terms of performance. Flight to perform in VMC or IMC. Flight pair order – 'helicopters bearing' on the interval and the 50×70m range at guided missiles 100×50m start.

 

Led crew is to perform unguided rockets shooting and bombing on the team-leader's command without individual aiming.

<…>

Shooting from the GAU by the led crew commander is not performed with individual aiming.

<…>

Edited June 19, 2020 by S.E.Bulba
update.

[VampireNZ]

Russian bullets find target by themselves, because they are so instructed by the manual during the flight in pairs engaging ground targets. :)

 

See that line of small text at the bottom of my post? - read that :thumbup:

 

I read the Russian language threads as well mate. Even putting a disclaimer on your posts these days doesn't stop the inevitable 'correction' replies. FYI it was a jk;)

Edited June 19, 2020 by VampireNZ

[S.E.Bulba]

Google Translate

 

See that line of small text at the bottom of my post? - read that :thumbup:

 

I read the Russian language threads as well mate. Even putting a disclaimer on your posts these days doesn't stop the inevitable 'correction' replies. FYI it was a jk;)

FYI, for my part it was also a jk. :)

 

In addition, it was a small information for those who also read Russian language threads, but at the same time they are interested in details.

 

Original in Russian

 

К Вашему сведению, с моей стороны это также была шутка. :)

 

Кроме того, это была небольшая информация для тех, кто тоже читает русскоязычные темы, но при этом их интересуют детали.

 

[Mars Exulte]

I Will Be missing that as well.

 

So wanted to see it instead cannon. As flying coop with gunner would have been so much more fun.

I don't see much use for that 30mm cannon for some reason....

 

But now I am more interested how they will make the co-pilot sighting system work in VR....

 

I don't want to see 'press button and whole view is through it' like a fixed side door guns in Mi-8.

 

I so have enjoyed flying HIND, old but Goldie.

Just marvelous how they managed pull such a simulator back then...

 

It has the same use the 30mm cannon on the A-10 has, or the Ka-50. The Yak is just a minigun basically. You could use it on trucks, IFVs from certain angles at suicidally close range, etc. The 30mm will be effective from long range, against most targets up to MBTs, and probably against them also from certain angles. It's a vastly more effective weapon, that's why it largely replaced the original (at least in Russia, where the 30mm is what I see in vids most the time)

[xvii-Dietrich]

Russian bullets find target by themselves, because they are so instructed by the manual during the flight in pairs engaging ground targets. :)

 

 

Originally Posted by Google Translate

<…>

Terms of performance. Flight to perform in VMC or IMC. Flight pair order – 'helicopters bearing' on the interval and the 50×70m range at guided missiles 100×50m start.

 

Led crew is to perform unguided rockets shooting and bombing on the team-leader's command without individual aiming.

<…>

Shooting from the GAU by the led crew commander is not performed with individual aiming.

<…>

 

 

I am trying to understand the above discussion (plus the other posts with it). Searching for terms like "individual aiming" or "formation firing" were not helpful.

 

 

 

So, does this mean that a pair of Mi-24 helicopters fly in close formation and then, when the lead fires, the other just fires with him... and assumes that the second helicopter is pointing in more or less the right direction? Is that what the "not performed with individual aiming" means?

 

 

 

(The analogy I'm thinking of is WW2 level bombing, where the formation leader would drop bombs and all the others in the formation would drop too... knowing they are dropping at the same height, altitude, heading, speed, etc..)

 

 

Any clarification (or references I could go and read) would be appreciated.

[Mars Exulte]

Yeah, exactly, it's area fire, which is pretty much what rocket pods are for anyway. Remember this is not a vehicle designed for precision attacks. Infantry call in strikes on ''that hilltop over there'' and Hinds fly by and turn it into a hellscape. Those numbers they're talking about (I didn't see the original comment) spacing of helos and the area each one can be expected to suppress. Each helo is spaced so far apart, each one has rockets to saturate a given area, etc

[Fri13]

It has the same use the 30mm cannon on the A-10 has, or the Ka-50. The Yak is just a minigun basically. You could use it on trucks, IFVs from certain angles at suicidally close range, etc. The 30mm will be effective from long range, against most targets up to MBTs, and probably against them also from certain angles. It's a vastly more effective weapon, that's why it largely replaced the original (at least in Russia, where the 30mm is what I see in vids most the time)

 

Sure it has more penetration and range, but you don't need to destroy IFV to be effective, as you can more effectively engage the ground units that IFV is defending. But that is why rockets are used to engage infantry and cannon for vehicle.

 

Most tanks can be destroyed easily with 30 mm, if you hit them. That is the challenge with the fixed 30 mm cannon on helicopter. A-10 has a stabilization system to help you hold burst on target, and you have easier time to aim as you come from high altitude dive without flashlight effect. And with helicopter that has a stabilization and automatic tracking for target is more effective than those fixed ones where you aim by flying.

 

A 12.7 mm is very effective against most APC (especially for the era) and when you have more soft targets (motorized infantry instead mechanized infantry) then you have more firepower and tactics to destroy the vehicles. But yet you need S-8 rockets to kill infantry effectively.

 

But for coop the turning gun model, especially 23mm one, would have been nicer. And having a AI gunner similar to old HIND game, you could very well fly alone and command AI to engage wanted targets.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

if you hit them. That is the challenge with the fixed 30 mm cannon on helicopter

 

Indeed: the 12.7mm door gunner in our Mi-8 makes quick work of IFV/APCs, so I'd rather have an (optionally) AI controlled Yak-B (or indeed the 23mm autocannon of the Mi-24VP) than the fixed cannon of the -P.

Also for fighting another helicopter the swivel gun is quite a bit more useful.

[WinterH]

...you can more effectively engage the ground units that IFV is defending...

 

Except you can't. Marginal range, and no meaningful HE/frag content, meaning you need to get actual direct hits. Also not as much cover penetration.

 

Also, we're talking DCS here, and you DO need to actually destroy the IFV.

 

GSh-23 is barely an improvement as a turret gun over YakB. Yes, it does have decent HE/frag capability, but it too has marginal range, perhaps even worse than 12.7, and it's not good in armor penetration. It has low quite low muzzle velocity too, extra bad for engaging moving vehicles at anything but "banzaaaiiiii" range. But yeah, ok, it is still a lot better for engaging infantry with than YakB.

 

It would be cool to get a turreted Mi-24 added at some point, but frankly, Mi-24P is very much fine, and actually the best to have in DCS if we'll get a single version, which is going to be the case at least for foreseeable future.

 

I don't even know why we're still beating this extra-dead horse :)

 

I usually do gunnery practice flights wit helicopters in DCS against infantry and vehicles. Using every thing available. According to my experiences in those missions, I know I prefer a good GSh-30K armed Hind in DCS.

 

Sure yes, I too would love to also get a YakB or GSh-23 turreted Hind (though the latter is only common in more modern versions in Russian or exported services). But some of you guys are making it seem like turret guns on Hind were much better than they actually were, and fixed 30mm is way worse than it actually is.

 

High speed passes with short bursts on low fire rate setting should prove pretty effective against vehicle targets using thhe GSh-30K. Against area targets like massed infantry etc, high rate of fire setting and short burst, or a longer burst with low firing rate should prove to be pretty useful I would think. Anyway, we'll see when the Hind arrives :)

 

Also, perhaps we'll get door gunners too, so there may still be an AI gunner option with 12.7 or 7.62 there.

[Fri13]

But some of you guys are making it seem like turret guns on Hind were much better than they actually were, and fixed 30mm is way worse than it actually is.

 

I think we all know the results Mi-24 had in Afghanistan and why Mi-24P was developed....

 

But simply the 12.7 mm is effective for many many things. You do not even need to hit anyone to get their heads down. That is same thing as with a machinegunner job in a team, you just shoot at the general direction and enemies will keep their heads down.

 

And when some say it is worse than it is, is more (at least on my case) about flying solo vs duo.

 

One thing that I love to do in Mi-8 is to be a door gunner with 12.7mm. As it is devastating even in DCS. The problem is angle of fire if you can't get nice circling and then that weapon handling.

 

High speed passes with short bursts on low fire rate setting should prove pretty effective against vehicle targets using thhe GSh-30K. Against area targets like massed infantry etc, high rate of fire setting and short burst, or a longer burst with low firing rate should prove to be pretty useful I would think. Anyway, we'll see when the Hind arrives :)

 

Hopefully they improve the HE effectiveness, as well get infantry to receive their much needed cover by going prone and crouched, as well lots of clutter cover from small rocks etc.

 

Also, perhaps we'll get door gunners too, so there may still be an AI gunner option with 12.7 or 7.62 there.

 

It is not the caliber we want, but the functionality. Door gunner with kord would nice addition to be able shoot elsewhere than directly ahead, but I like more about idea to be able drop a squad on ground and start supporting them. Even if it wouldn't be correctly by doctrine.

[unknown]

I was looking for some nice Mi-24 pictures(wallpaper) and came across this attached picture, interesting loadout on the outer wingtip station, looks like some sort of igla? Was this ever used operationally or was it just carried as a test?

[Hook47]

Personally I'm also happy we are getting the 30mm Cannon. Yes, the turret would give the front seat something else to do, and would be a lot of fun, but I think the fixed Cannon will be more effective. One has to look only as far as the SA342L Gazelle to see how effective a large fixed Cannon can be on a helicopter. I've turned light armor into twisted metal quickly and effectively with that beast!

 

One question I have for the Hip experts is what will be the primary duties of the front seat in the MI-24P? Im guessing guiding the AT-2 Tow missiles (if I'm remembering their name correctly) but aside from that I am pretty ignorant on the topic. I also echo the above question on the Igla... Gonna be great to get them on the KA-50, would be awesome to get them on the Hind too!

 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[WinterH]

Gunner operates the Raduga-F sight (which is more or less a downsized submarine periscope, turned upside down :)), and guides Shturm missiles with it. I'm not sure but I think they also operate countermeasures, and, according to some internet lore, can "designate" a target point, so that it would appear on pilot's gunsight glass (take the last two with a pinch of salt, I'd love the latter to be true, but don't know if it really is).

 

As for the photo, I remember wondering the same thing years ago :). Apparently, it is just a flight telemetry thing that was mounted by... American Mi-24s for when they fly to simulate OPFOR :)

 

Some Mi-24s had R-60s operationally, and it seems like we will get them, but apparently iglas or strelas weren't used on Hinds.