Can we please get a Vietnam era map?

[The_Pharoah]

With the Vietnam era aircraft we have or are getting (F4, F5, A4 community, A7, Mig 19, Mig 21, Huey), we really need a Vietnam era map to go with it. Trying to pretend you're flying in Vietnam but you're in the Caucasus just doesnt' do it.

 

If you guys do get around to doing this, it would be awesome to try and get it as it were during the peak of the Vietnam war including major bases (Khe Sanh, Da Nang, etc etc) plus the US camps as well or FOBs. That would REALLY allow us to use the Huey.

[Emmy]

The tech involved in creating the 2.5 world(s) (new mesh, speed trees, etc...) might mean accelerated growth of new maps. Maybe?

[The_Pharoah]

thats what I'm hoping for. The new caucasus map looks really beautiful based on Wags' videos, esp the trees. if we can get that (and collidable trees) that would make it stand out. Imagine that, having a server with a vietnam era map....covering maybe both North and South VN plus parts of Thailand (Takhli) for jets to fly north (route pack 6) but also covering all of South VN for Hueys to do typical Huey missions from the actual war (troop insertion/extraction, ass & trash, VIP, rescue, etc). Throw in the F100 and F4 and you could even do FAC and/or CAS for troops under contact

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Okay

 

[QuiGon]

With the Vietnam era aircraft we have or are getting (F4, F5, A4 community, A7, Mig 19, Mig 21, Huey), we really need a Vietnam era map to go with it. Trying to pretend you're flying in Vietnam but you're in the Caucasus just doesnt' do it.

 

If you guys do get around to doing this, it would be awesome to try and get it as it were during the peak of the Vietnam war including major bases (Khe Sanh, Da Nang, etc etc) plus the US camps as well or FOBs. That would REALLY allow us to use the Huey.

I'm not sure what you actually mean? Do you just want a vietnam era map as you say, meaning any map in the late 60s or early 70s or do you actually want a vietnam map?

[philstyle]

I'm not sure what you actually mean? Do you just want a vietnam era map as you say, meaning any map in the late 60s or early 70s or do you actually want a vietnam map?

 

 

 

I take him to mean both; that is, a map of Vietnam, during the Vietnam war (lates 60s/early 70s).

[mvsgas]

With the Vietnam era aircraft we have or are getting

 

Do we have Vietnam era aircraft? (1955 to 1975?) What year did the Mig-21Bis SAU (75B)/F-5E3/etc, started in operational squadrons or reach Initial Operational status?

[The_Pharoah]

I'm not sure what you actually mean? Do you just want a vietnam era map as you say, meaning any map in the late 60s or early 70s or do you actually want a vietnam map?

 

I'd like both. ie. a large map of Vietnam (basically the one pictured above) BUT inclusive of some of the major US bases that were in South Vietnam. Why? The Huey. Right now the huey, as good as it is, is currently used as a transport chopper online ie. relegated to a courier driver role. Vietnam is where it earned its wings so to speak as there was complete air superiority so you could do all the missions i mentioned above without the risk of enemy jets or SAMs (until later on in the war obviously).

 

Here's what i envision (not to say it will happen or as i write it or whatever):

 

1. Server with a Vietnam map covering N and S Vietnam, maybe cambodia and northern Thailand

2. S Vietnam has major (and minor) US bases (Army/USMC/Navy) bases

3. hopefully we can have auto generated missions to deliver supplies, troops, etc

4. day/night

5. night - you could have large scale NVA/VC attacks on certain bases, thereby requiring helo support (gunships, hueys for medevac, troop deployment, ammo resup, etc)

 

at the same time, you would also have:

 

1. bombing missions into N Vietnam out of Thailand and/or the northern part of S Vietnam

2. Hanoi, etc would contain SAMs, AAA, etc and would have Mig bases (eg. Kep) where we would have Mig 19/Mig 21s to counter

3. We could use the upcoming F4 as both bomber and fighter (CAP) as well as the F5 for escort

 

IDEALLY....(and this would be the icing on the cake for me)...we'd actually get an F-105 Thunderchief developed/released. But whatever.

 

So you have the air war over N Vietnam AND the helicopter war over S Vietnam all on the same map.

 

I don't know how doable it is obviously...this is the wishlist area so i'm in the right place.

 

hopefully that makes sense.

[Kev2go]

Yea a sea map would be awesome but we don't a really have any true vietnam aircraft in the same way we dont really have any full fidelty ( or upcoming) Gulf war era 4th gen Aircraft ( save maybe the M2000C being in a comparable configuration)

 

Mig21bis entered service in ussr in 1972/73 and was not adopted by vietnam until post war.

 

F5e3 is certainly a post nam era bird. South Vietnam only used the f5a and the f5e1. The e1 was in for export starting in 1973. And the e1 lacked a radar warning receiver and had worse radar. ( an/ apq153 instead of the 159) compared to the f5e3. An/apq 153 had half the range and lacked off boresight capabilities the 159 had.

 

The uh1h huey is also a post vietnam mod as iirc name era uh1h did not have a countermeasures suite.

 

 

The f4e that bst is developing they stated they are going for a late 70s - early 80s model. Also post nam.

 

Mig19 that razbam is making is a mig19p fitted with early radar and ir missiles. North vietnam only used j6 a Chinese copy of the mig19s.

 

At this point this just leaves the a4 and maybe a7 as potential nam era planes. But even the a7 we can't be sure because we don't know which era a7 they are simulating.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Kev2go

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I'm sure that during some past video or livestream ED have stated that the current terrain engine will pave the way for more maps, and that the goal is to make maps at least as important as aircraft.

 

My current wish-list for maps:

- Vietnam

- Afghanistan

- Northern Scandinavia / Kola Peninsula

- East Germany / Poland

[Kev2go]

I'm sure that during some past video or livestream ED have stated that the current terrain engine will pave the way for more maps, and that the goal is to make maps at least as important as aircraft.

 

My current wish-list for maps:

- Vietnam

- Afghanistan

- Northern Scandinavia / Kola Peninsula

- East Germany / Poland

 

Yes with DCS 2.5 ED is supposed to allow for 3rd party map licenses. This will certainly greatly speed up the amount of maps we get in the future.

[Silver_Dragon]

Yes with DCS 2.5 ED is supposed to allow for 3rd party map licenses. This will certainly greatly speed up the amount of maps we get in the future.

 

Under the actually conditions, Ugla Media team, with WW2 and Normandy map, has "actually" access to the map SDK........

 

Expected some other 3rd party, can get the map SDK and confirm the map "in develop" projects.

[Lixma 06]

Korea 1950's!

 

(And it will come in handy when the nuclear war kicks off)

[The_Pharoah]

One of the things thats really annoyed me about DCS is the lack of any thought as to how we will use the a/c that are developed. I mean we have a/c from WW2, Korea, Vietnam, 70s, 80s, etc. How are we supposed to use them properly in a combat theatre?

[Kev2go]

One of the things thats really annoyed me about DCS is the lack of any thought as to how we will use the a/c that are developed. I mean we have a/c from WW2, Korea, Vietnam, 70s, 80s, etc. How are we supposed to use them properly in a combat theatre?

 

well with you can alwasy Put in Mig21's or other legacy In a scenario to simualte when BlueForce decides to fight a 1 sided war against a less developed nation(S):lol:

 

 

 

Actually that said the F4E , F-5E, , FC3 su25 & Mig29A, and the future F14A tomcat AS a combination will go nicely to represent the IRIAF, in the Straight of Hormuz map.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

Korea 1950's!

 

(And it will come in handy when the nuclear war kicks off)

 

and a Korea Circa 90s- Present.

 

It will certainly come in handy If an F16C is officially announced by ED :megalol:

[probad]

i wouldnt mind a vietnam map but i dont want to encourage perpetuation of misconceptions like this

With the Vietnam era aircraft we have or are getting (F4, F5, A4 community, A7, Mig 19, Mig 21, Huey)

[mvsgas]

I agree probad.

 

It will certainly come in handy If an F16C is officially announced by ED :megalol:

If that happens any map will do, I bet we can find an F-16 base close to any map we can think off.

 

1955 to 1975 is an interesting time for aircraft.

[Kev2go]

I agree probad.

 

 

If that happens any map will do, I bet we can find an F-16 base close to any map we can think off.

 

1955 to 1975 is an interesting time for aircraft.

 

Lol man it was a joke.

 

 

A reference to a 3 lettered sim that happens to take place in modern era Korea and featured around an f16:music_whistling:

[WinterH]

I'm not against a Vietnam map, would be really good actually.

 

But, like others have said, and discussed on the forums many times before, we currently have a great sum of zero Vietnam era aircraft modules in sim.

 

People tend to just look at the main type rather than variant, and tie them to the most famous war the aircraft has been in, even if it isn't the right variant.

 

Perhaps the UH-1H is the most fitting, even if main 'Nam Hueys were older versions, H did serve a bit in war. Though the module we have has access to some postwar weapon options as far as I know.

 

Everything else is simply post-Vietnam. MiG-21Bis did enter service before the war ended, but it wasn't operated in that war, and the module we have has access to some 80s missiles too. F-5E3 we have is very much post 'Nam and also feels like an 80s-ish variant. F-4E will also a be very late block from 80s with equipment, avionics and weapons very, very different from 'Nam era Phantoms. Razbam is doing a MiG-19, but it is also a somewhat better version compared to what North Vietnam used in war.

 

F-14A did technically patrol the skies during the last days of war, but did not see any action, and in any case Heatblur's F-14A will be a decade newer than that, as they aim for a mid-80s A and mid-90s B. Even if it was the earliest one, F-14s relevance to the Vietnam war is arguable.

 

There really isn't any properly, or even remotely Vietnam War aircraft among the modules.

[SkateZilla]

Desert Storm

[The_Pharoah]

People tend to just look at the main type rather than variant, and tie them to the most famous war the aircraft has been in, even if it isn't the right variant.

 

agreed but how else do you use what we have (and are getting) in a proper combat timeline? atleast using Vietnam as an example allows you to immerse yourself in something that actually happened.

[Hyperion35]

Even if the existing variant isn't exactly proper, it's perfectly possible to "downgrade" the loadout to match what would have been realistic at the time. If I remember correctly, the primary development behind the MiG-21bis variant was a slightly better radar and the ability to fire R-3R SARH missiles. So load out with 4 old-fashioned R-3S missiles, and it's not like Soviet radar "upgrades" were huge improvements given the state of Soviet technology.

 

Sure, it's not perfect, but I remember someone pointing out that the variant of the P-51D that we have entered service well after the Normandy invasion, and yet plenty of people use it on the Normandy map.

[mvsgas]

If I remember correctly, the primary development behind the MiG-21bis variant was a slightly better radar and the ability to fire R-3R SARH missiles.

All-weather interceptor with improved air combat performances at low and medium altitudes, engine and airframe completely redesigned.

 

MiG-21bis LAZUR (75A*)

MiG-21bis SAU (75B*)

MiG-21bis (75, built under licence in India)

http://www.mig-21.de/english/technicaldataversions.htm

 

Mig-21, Alexander Mladenov, Air Vanguard 14, page 39

...It was purposely redesigned in order to be better suited

for high-G manoeuvring dogfights at low and medium levels, where previous

versions had demonstrated a number of shortcomings and were hampered by

a plethora of operating limitations in terms of maximum speed and G...

 

...Pilots often noted, however, that the more powerful and heavier

MiG-21bis was much less agile than the MiG-21F-13 and PF/PFM versions,

claiming that the last Fishbed derivative ‘behaved like a bull’ in the air, while

flying the lighter MiG-21PF/PFM was ‘like riding a stallion’...

 

This is a direct PDF link

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjrvfDJrs_YAhUKwGMKHdCYDfkQFgguMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitaryrussia.ru%2Fforum%2Fdownload%2Ffile.php%3Fid%3D30112&usg=AOvVaw2tSytZQOuc-Nvf9YQByHcI

Edited January 11, 2018 by mvsgas

[Fred00]

I'd say it's impossible to have all the correct combinations of historical theatres and the exact correspondning aircraft variants. If they make a Vietnam map I would be happy to fly missions in it even if the version of the aircraft is not the exact same as was operated IRL. I think we all have to accept this and be a little flexible. As someone else mentioned, some of the differences could probably be compensated in loadouts.