F/A18E/F Super Hornets block 1 and BLock 2 E/F ( lot 26)

[SkateZilla]

6 hours ago, Swift. said:

Super hornet is slower than legacy. In fact I'm not even sure if it can go supersonic with more than a centerline on.

 

Super hornet is only slower in trans-sonic phase, subsonic and super sonic it will out accelerate a legacy w/ the big engines and similar loadout up until mach 1.5 which the super hornet will again start to slow down due to airframe size : drag vs a smaller airframe'd legacy, which will continue to pull off until about mach 1.7 before it starts to approach mach.2 threshold.

Edited November 15, 2022 by SkateZilla

[=BoB= David]

5 hours ago, Swift. said:

No one calls it superbug. 

It has better slow speed performance (including a slower landing speed), on account of the larger LEX for sure. But those same larger LEX cause problems at speed. More wing is more drag.

Not sure where you are getting your gouge from though, sounds like an interesting source...

I speak about your " In fact I'm not even sure if it can go supersonic with more than a centerline on." That just isnt true, superhornet can go supersonic easily with load...

[Swift.]

30 minutes ago, =BoB= David said:

I speak about your " In fact I'm not even sure if it can go supersonic with more than a centerline on." That just isnt true, superhornet can go supersonic easily with load...

That might have been an exaggeration on my part, I apologise. But 'Easily' might be a similar exaggeration by you no?

2 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Super hornet is only slower in trans-sonic phase, subsonic and super sonic it will out accelerate a legacy w/ the big engines and similar loadout up until mach 1.5 which the super hornet will again start to slow down due to airframe size : drag vs a smaller airframe'd legacy, which will continue to pull off until about mach 1.7 before it starts to approach mach.2 threshold.

I'm just digging through the numbers now, it also looks like hornet can climb a little bit quicker than rhino. And I think might have a slightly higher ceiling. And going off of a sample loadout of 2W2A1 on both aircraft, it looks like hornet might accelerate from endurance to 1.1 a tiny bit faster than rhino. So all in all pretty close performance, but I think I still give it to the hornet.

[SkateZilla]

1 minute ago, Swift. said:

That might have been an exaggeration on my part, I apologise. But 'Easily' might be a similar exaggeration by you no?

I'm just digging through the numbers now, it also looks like hornet can climb a little bit quicker than rhino. And I think might have a slightly higher ceiling. And going off of a sample loadout of 2W2A1 on both aircraft, it looks like hornet might accelerate from endurance to 1.1 a tiny bit faster than rhino. So all in all pretty close performance, but I think I still give it to the hornet.

yes, smaller and lighter aircraft with a smidge higher T:W Ratio, .96 vs .93
It will climb faster and go a smidge higher due to being lighter and less drag, service ceiling should be the same in docs, but real life numbers the legacy can go a fraction higher.

Also, Super Hornets Blocks II and III will be getting new engines (EPE) soon (hopefully), which will make T:W Ratio greater than 1:1 (1.12 ish, as the new engines take total thr to 52,800).
USN is also testing the new nozzles to reduce the db of the engines.

[Swift.]

1 minute ago, SkateZilla said:

yes, smaller and lighter aircraft with a smidge higher T:W Ratio, .96 vs .93
It will climb faster and go a smidge higher due to being lighter and less drag, service ceiling should be the same in docs, but real life numbers the legacy can go a fraction higher.

Also, Super Hornets Blocks II and III will be getting new engines (EPE) soon (hopefully), which will make T:W Ratio greater than 1:1 (1.12 ish, as the new engines take total thr to 52,800).
USN is also testing the new nozzles to reduce the db of the engines.

Its a shame they won't get a straight set of pylons to go with those beefy engines. Alas!

[SkateZilla]

25 minutes ago, Swift. said:

Its a shame they won't get a straight set of pylons to go with those beefy engines. Alas!

The Pylons being Canted isnt the drag problem. excessive/large stores on them is what causes the drag,
The CFD charts show that much, the airflow flows with the inner pylons, so if the pylons weren't canted, the flow would push weapons released towards the aircraft,
The canted pylons, allow the weapons to separate from the aircraft via the airflow and trajectory path generated by the canted pylon's angle..
The mid and outer pylons also direct air from outside of the nose wake/turbulence to the horizontal stabs. for increased pitch authority.

This is where removing the wing Pylons/store, and putting everything in the EWP comes in. You can put 4 AIM-120C7s in it, and 2 AIM120s on the Cheeks, and 2x AIM-9X on the Wingtips and have a zero increase in drag coefficient over a 2 AIM-9X and Fuel Tank Loadout.

Edited November 15, 2022 by SkateZilla

[F-2]

1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

yes, smaller and lighter aircraft with a smidge higher T:W Ratio, .96 vs .93
It will climb faster and go a smidge higher due to being lighter and less drag, service ceiling should be the same in docs, but real life numbers the legacy can go a fraction higher.

Also, Super Hornets Blocks II and III will be getting new engines (EPE) soon (hopefully), which will make T:W Ratio greater than 1:1 (1.12 ish, as the new engines take total thr to 52,800).
USN is also testing the new nozzles to reduce the db of the engines.

I don’t think the EPE engines were funded though

[SkateZilla]

6 minutes ago, F-2 said:

I don’t think the EPE engines were funded though

They were cancelled off the Blk II Orders along with the CFTs, but USN is pursuing it separately as part of a global power plant bill, w/ both the Super Bugs and the Lightnings.

Edited November 15, 2022 by SkateZilla

[F-2]

1 minute ago, SkateZilla said:

They were cancelled off the Blk II Orders along with the CFTs, but USN is pursuing it separately as part of a global power plant bill, w/ both the Super Bugs and the Lightnings.

 

Interesting, got anything I can read on it?

[SkateZilla]

8 minutes ago, F-2 said:

Interesting, got anything I can read on it?

nothing publicly posted, but there are plans for the Super Hornets Post 2024, Boeing is going to be fine even after the USNs Block III order is filled.

Edited November 15, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Hammer1-1]

15 hours ago, =BoB= David said:

That is not true mate... yes, superbug is bigger and heavier, but at the same time superbug has around 20% more powerful engines and better aerodynamic drag coeficient than legacy one...

The drag on the SH is far greater than the legacy...those pylons cant outboard and its not without reason, but guaranteed its one of the reasons why its not very efficient. They dont always fly with all the pylons loaded though, but it definitely is a draggy little bitch.

Next big thing Boeing has when the Hornet is finished is going to be the MQ-25 and T-7 programs. Im currently working on the #2 drone. Last week we put skin on the static aircraft for the first time.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[SilentSparrow]

 

On 11/15/2022 at 1:05 PM, Бойовий Сокіл said:

youre not going to get past 1.6

In the Legacy Hornet, it's 1.6. I believe it's 1.8 in the Rhino Lot 25 that we're probably getting.

[Furiz]

9 hours ago, SilentSparrow said:

 

In the Legacy Hornet, it's 1.6. I believe it's 1.8 in the Rhino Lot 25 that we're probably getting.

 

Probably not,

I'd love if we get it but...

Edited November 27, 2022 by Furiz

[Evoman]

1 minute ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

I wouldn't exactly trust this statement by a community manager as he has been proven to have been wrong on several occasions in the past. 

A E/F Rhino would be my last modern jet I'd want to see from ED. There isn't really a whole lot else left that isn't from the 80's or a bomber. 

Well you can pretty much trust it if he is only speaking on behalf of ED. They currently have too much on their plate anyhow. Which leaves it to the 3rd parties to take on the project IF they can acquire a license. So all future request for the Super Hornet should be directed to 3rd parties hoping that one of them takes up the project.

[Hammer1-1]

a lot of modules need updating...a LOT of modules. also a lot of AI units.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[SkateZilla]

2 hours ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

What exactly is too much? Hornet and Viper are about to be wrapped up and leave EA - Black Shark 3 is the helicopter team and about to be released. As far as jets go their "jet" team needs something to work on soon-ish.

I wouldn't count on an ED Super Hornet anytime soon.

-Blk II/III is still very much Classified,
-Blk I Early Lots are in most ways similar, but it'd be a downgrade in capability as a few weapons are removed and their replacements weren't added to the platform until Blk II

LRIP and Blk I were essentially transition Platforms for the USN, Allow pilots to get used to the new Airframe and DFCS, Block II added the new weapons capability to replace the weapons removed from the Blk I. (all A2G Weapons)

 

The known plan after F/A-18C and F-16CM is KA-50 III,
There's also the F-5E Art Update and Systems Update to new DCS Code (No new features announced, just maintenance).

Likely F-86F and other early DCS Aircraft will receive the same treatment. (L-39, MIG-15 etc).

Edited November 27, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Crouz]

6 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

a lot of modules need updating...a LOT of modules. also a lot of AI units.

+1

...and lockon models 3d

[F-2]

53 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

I wouldn't count on an ED Super Hornet anytime soon.

-Blk II/III is still very much Classified,
-Blk I Early Lots are in most ways similar, but it'd be a downgrade in capability as a few weapons are removed and their replacements weren't added to the platform until Blk II

LRIP and Blk I were essentially transition Platforms for the USN, Allow pilots to get used to the new Airframe and DFCS, Block II added the new weapons capability to replace the weapons removed from the Blk I. (all A2G Weapons)

 

The known plan after F/A-18C and F-16CM is KA-50 III,
There's also the F-5E Art Update and Systems Update to new DCS Code (No new features announced, just maintenance).

Likely F-86F and other early DCS Aircraft will receive the same treatment. (L-39, MIG-15 etc).

 

What about the early block II with APG-73?

[SkateZilla]

49 minutes ago, F-2 said:

What about the early block II with APG-73?

It's more than the AESA Radar.
ACS is still Classified, the AMCDs are also not 100% Public
Not 100% sure about AN/ALQ-214 either, but I haven't tried to look it up.
Networking Protocol and system is also still classified.

Lots 27+
-Low hours aircraft were pre-selected to be converted to Blk III First, Eventually all Block II will be converted to Block III or Mothballed.

Block II started in Lot 26, 
-Re-designed forward fuselage
-Block 2 equipment: AESA Radar, Advanced Crew Station (ACS), 8x10 Display, Fiber Channel Network Switch, Digital Video Map Computer.
-Advanced Mission Computers and Displays (AMC&D)
-The AM/ALQ-165 was replaced by the AN/ALQ-214 radar frequency countermeasures system.


However, Block I Lot 25 Introduced
-HOL Operating System, Removing the Assembly Language Based Operating System that the Legacy Hornets used.
-Upgraded Cockpit Displays
-Everything Software and Electronics wise for the AESA and the ACS to work were also integrated in Lot 25.
-APKWS Integration Planned to replace removed Unguided rocket stores.
-Most of these are Mothballed or Sent to Reserve Sqns for Training, there are a few Lot 25's that were converted/rebuilt, but retained APG-73.

Lot 24 was the first Block I Group, Most of which at this point have either been sent back to Cecil to be extended and re-built to Block III or Mothballed, due to hours and trap counts, low hour Block I's are also being inspected and reserved for USNFDT:BA
-Shared major systems commonality with the Late Lot C/D's.

Lots 21->23 LRIP groups,
-Lot 23 LRIP 3 were E/F's only, some coming back to be used for Growler Test Aircraft, Some Reserved for USNFDT, Remaining LRIP3 Units were Mothballed.
-Lot 22 LRIP 2 were E/F's only most of those were sent back to Boeing as Test Aircraft for Block II/III Items or Mothballed
-Lot 21 was the last C and D's, and LRIP1 (E's Only) Group, All of the E's have been returned to Boeing or Mothballed.
 

Edited November 27, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Crouz said:

+1

...and lockon models 3d

That is outside of the Module building teams. Remember on all 2.X and future 3.X DCS versions, ED always update / remade / redone old 3d models.

[SilentSparrow]

1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

I wouldn't count on an ED Super Hornet anytime soon.

-Blk II/III is still very much Classified,
-Blk I Early Lots are in most ways similar, but it'd be a downgrade in capability as a few weapons are removed and their replacements weren't added to the platform until Blk II

LRIP and Blk I were essentially transition Platforms for the USN, Allow pilots to get used to the new Airframe and DFCS, Block II added the new weapons capability to replace the weapons removed from the Blk I. (all A2G Weapons)

 

The known plan after F/A-18C and F-16CM is KA-50 III,
There's also the F-5E Art Update and Systems Update to new DCS Code (No new features announced, just maintenance).

Likely F-86F and other early DCS Aircraft will receive the same treatment. (L-39, MIG-15 etc).

 

The Lot 25 is the last Lot before there's the APG-79 and we can't go further. The Lot 25 has more advanced weapons than the Lot 20 in game. The Ka-50 Black Shark III is coming soon. I wouldn't bet on ED deciding "Yeah, you know what, let's update our old code instead of adding something new" like the Super Hornet. It looks weird to see the Legacy Hornet in the Top Gun-style trailers for ED, so the Super Hornet has a large customer base and I'd be willing to bet that it'd be the most popular DCS module.

A third party could always make the Super Hornet. The MiG-15 was made by Belsimtek, but the MiG-19 was made by RAZBAM, so the Super Hornet may not be made by Eagle Dynamics.

4 hours ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

What exactly is too much? Hornet and Viper are about to be wrapped up and leave EA - Black Shark 3 is the helicopter team and about to be released. As far as jets go their "jet" team needs something to work on soon-ish.

 

Exactly. The Hornet and Viper are about to be wrapped up and ED needs to get something new fast. The Super Hornet would be perfect for the job.

[SkateZilla]

8 minutes ago, SilentSparrow said:

The Lot 25 is the last Lot before there's the APG-79 and we can't go further. The Lot 25 has more advanced weapons than the Lot 20 in game. The Ka-50 Black Shark III is coming soon. I wouldn't bet on ED deciding "Yeah, you know what, let's update our old code instead of adding something new" like the Super Hornet. It looks weird to see the Legacy Hornet in the Top Gun-style trailers for ED, so the Super Hornet has a large customer base and I'd be willing to bet that it'd be the most popular DCS module.

A third party could always make the Super Hornet. The MiG-15 was made by Belsimtek, but the MiG-19 was made by RAZBAM, so the Super Hornet may not be made by Eagle Dynamics.

 

Exactly. The Hornet and Viper are about to be wrapped up and ED needs to get something new fast. The Super Hornet would be perfect for the job.

Lot 25 introduced HOL Programming and several small system's changes, 
Lot 24 would be the highest you can go before running into conflicts, Lot 24 was Handicapped by the AL Programming, unguided A2G Stores were removed, until the HOL transition or the unguided store was replaced w/ a new guided store.

As stated LRIP 1-3 and Blk I were pretty much just transitional jets, the E/F's could'nt stand on their own until late Block II lot 27, and that's when the rapid retirement program for the legacy airframes started (plus the fact that the USMC couldn't meet operational readiness requirements due to parts).

Lot 26 and Most of Lot 27 did not roll off the line with APG-79, as there were production and political delays in procuring the units, they arrived late and were installed into block II  lot 26/27 airframes in waves.

 

F-5E, F-86F, MIG-15, L-39C/ZA, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2 are I.P. of Eagle Dynamics, Belsimtek was a E.D. Detachment that was re-absorbed back into E.D. years ago.

Edited November 27, 2022 by SkateZilla

[F-2]

According to flight international lot 30 was the first with native APG-79 and lot 26-29 where refits

https://www.flightglobal.com/ultra-hornet/72467.article

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

5 hours ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

I wouldn't exactly trust this statement by a community manager as he has been proven to have been wrong on several occasions in the past. 

A E/F Rhino would be my last modern jet I'd want to see from ED. There isn't really a whole lot else left that isn't from the 80's or a bomber. 

Well, a community manager is the one who started this giant leap of logic to "we're getting a super hornet."

We need to recognize that, while they could be solid dudes, they're still going to be present to hype things up as part of trying to hock software. So, if they say it isn't currently in the works? It really isn't.

[SkateZilla]

I'll have to verify, as the BuNos readout I have states Lot 28 was rolling off the line with APG-79, but the Bunos printout could have been updated to show they received APG-79, There's likely a * somewhere in the foot notes,

I knew they were delayed, but the G's rolled off the line w/ lot 28 and they had AESA from roll off.