Why is the Mirage's gun so freaking annoying?

[Icebeat]

No matter how. The mirage always shows you a wrong target prediction. I always press the trigger when the circle is over the bandit and at a half range of distance but somehow the bandit always continues flying without damage. Any of you have recommendations?

Thanks.

[razo+r]

Fly smooth and let the piper update before you are firing. I know that gunsnake is hard to aim with, but all you need is patience and practise.

[myHelljumper]

No matter how. The mirage always shows you a wrong target prediction. I always press the trigger when the circle is over the bandit and at a half range of distance but somehow the bandit always continues flying without damage. Any of you have recommendations?

Thanks.

 

It's not annoying, it's in fact very precise.

The piper is not predictive, you have to shoot one shell time of flight before the the piper being on the target.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

One short burst of rounds brings down pretty much everything. The joys of 30 mm... ;-)

[escaner]

No matter how. The mirage always shows you a wrong target prediction. I always press the trigger when the circle is over the bandit and at a half range of distance but somehow the bandit always continues flying without damage. Any of you have recommendations?

Thanks.

 

The snake (and also funnel and gyro sights in general) air-to-air gunsights are based in your own aircraft maneuvers to deliver a reliable firing solution. Therefore you need to match the target movements as stable as possible and get a tracking shot. It is useless for snapshots and out of plane shots in general.

 

If you don't have the patience for this kind of sights, you can always use the cross as a fixed sight, which is where the guns are actually pointing and do the lead computing in your head as you would in most WW2 aircraft.

[jojo]

It is useless for snapshots and out of plane shots in general.

 

This isn't true.

 

You have to place the piper on target's trajectory and estimate when to shoot. Not easy but this is how they train IRL when they shoot on targets towed by another plane. They shoot on target crossing their path.

 

When you manage to get your target in the snake, 2 cases:

- your closing in, the piper is traveling up the snake: Press the trigger before the pepper reaches the target.

- the distance is increasing, the piper is traveling down the snake: same thing, press the the trigger before the piper reaches the target.

 

You don't need the full burst to reach the target, just a few 30mm will hit hard.

 

Off course, with a tracking shot (like piper for 1s over target before firing), the full burst will reach the target, but this is the most difficult to achieve.

[bzhnono]

Mmmh, interesting.

Think it's hard to hit with the gun (it's easier with the A10... also lots of extra rounds in case of a miss :) )

[Dugong]

Use the manual backup gunsight, it's much easier. The computed gunsight is badly modelled.

[escaner]

This isn't true.

 

You have to place the piper on target's trajectory and estimate when to shoot. Not easy but this is how they train IRL when they shoot on targets towed by another plane. They shoot on target crossing their path.

 

That is why I said "in general". If you want to do a snapshot like that you cannot pull g and you need to stop maneuvering so the sight computes the round fall (but still not the lead), which is a very specific situation.

[myHelljumper]

The computed gunsight is badly modelled.

 

Do you have any source on that ?

 

When I use the A/A guns I find it very accurate.

[Drag80]

I dont own a mirage but I think its guns are awsome. Everytime I have been in a gun fight with a mirage, it has shot me down. Its small and fast.

[Ski01]

I find the gunsight pretty accurate and easy to use.

[KCferrari]

I can't hit anything with the snake. The shots just never seem to connect for me. I have better luck aiming manually with the gun cross.

[myHelljumper]

I can't hit anything with the snake. The shots just never seem to connect for me. I have better luck aiming manually with the gun cross.

 

Have you tried the methods described in the previous page ?

[KCferrari]

Have you tried the methods described in the previous page ?

I have, but due to the piper not actually being predictive, it still tends to throw me off. It doesn't work at all how you'd think it would by just looking at it, when you're not used to this gunsight style. I'm more used to the air to ground and F-15 style sights where you line up the shot and the bullets simply land in the middle of the piper.

[alfredo_laredo]

I get and extremly laggy gun piper snake. Is thiss normal?

[Skitter]

Seems fine with me. It's just hard, as in RL I suppose.

[CoBlue]

Use the manual backup gunsight, it's much easier. The computed gunsight is badly modelled.

 

Yes, it is! ,coz you can't even see the piper! https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2927396&postcount=1

[Ramstein]

I dont own a mirage but I think its guns are awsome. Everytime I have been in a gun fight with a mirage, it has shot me down. Its small and fast.

 

 

in DCS it may look small too you.... but the F-5 is actually about the smallest fighter... the Mirage is very big in real life. You could put an F-5 on each wing.

[some1]

Nope, Mirage is only 1 meter bigger than F-5. But it has much more powerful engine and is more manoeuvrable.

Here you can compare the size: https://imgur.com/a/vPZeD

[pyromaniac4002]

It's just a matter of learning how to use the snake sight as opposed to others. What you want to do is maintain lag pursuit until you can pull up and bring the target down through the sight along the snake, when the ranging circle is passing through the enemy you shoot.

 

Works just fine and it actually makes a lot of sense to have this type of sight in the Mirage because its high instantaneous turn rate means you can usually count on being able to easily out-pull the other guy at the right moment. It's a faster process than using a regular lead-computing sight so it's actually harder for the guy in the sight to jink his way out of harm, but if you don't set up the engagement right it's definitely a fairly useless way to aim. Also best suited for fighter vs. fighter engagements, if you're hunting helicopters or slow fixed-wing it's a bit of a pain but not impossible.

[myHelljumper]

It's just a matter of learning how to use the snake sight as opposed to others. What you want to do is maintain lag pursuit until you can pull up and bring the target down through the sight along the snake, when the ranging circle is passing through the enemy you shoot.

 

Works just fine and it actually makes a lot of sense to have this type of sight in the Mirage because its high instantaneous turn rate means you can usually count on being able to easily out-pull the other guy at the right moment. It's a faster process than using a regular lead-computing sight so it's actually harder for the guy in the sight to jink his way out of harm, but if you don't set up the engagement right it's definitely a fairly useless way to aim. Also best suited for fighter vs. fighter engagements, if you're hunting helicopters or slow fixed-wing it's a bit of a pain but not impossible.

 

That's it :thumbup:.

 

"when the ranging circle is passing through the enemy you shoot" -> You mean the outter circle ?

 

If so yes, that's a good mark.

[jaguara5]

The problem is that if you pull above ~2.5 g's , the gun reticle disappears constantly at the bottom of the HUD . So you have to come very close to the target, and even then if you pull even medium g's and make lead turns, the circle will appear momentarily , travelling very fast (due to the lead turn / closure rate to the target) along the snake line, making it difficult to aiming precisely. Yes, the M2000 has 30mm guns (in comparison to the 20mm guns of the f-15), but I don't know if the current implementation of the lead angle is correct or excessive . Here are some hud tapes (watch especially the second one from 1:16 - 1:47 I cant' do that in the game).

 

 

[Ramstein]

Nope, Mirage is only 1 meter bigger than F-5. But it has much more powerful engine and is more manoeuvrable.

Here you can compare the size: https://imgur.com/a/vPZeD

 

just saying what they are like in person,, I spent 3 years with these aircraft...

[uri_ba]

The problem is that if you pull above ~2.5 g's , the gun reticle disappears constantly at the bottom of the HUD . So you have to come very close to the target, and even then if you pull even medium g's and make lead turns, the circle will appear momentarily , travelling very fast (due to the lead turn / closure rate to the target) along the snake line, making it difficult to aiming precisely. Yes, the M2000 has 30mm guns (in comparison to the 20mm guns of the f-15), but I don't know if the current implementation of the lead angle is correct or excessive . Here are some hud tapes (watch especially the second one from 1:16 - 1:47 I cant' do that in the game).

 

 

 

What distance are you from the target? which aspect?

When I'm going in for guns. (<300 meters), if I need to pull enough lead to get the pipper off the HUD, the target is usually out of it as well. (happens in high aspect tracking shots)

 

The videos you gave as an example, Most of them the AA sight is in "pure snake" mode, without radar lock, the the ones with radar lock are at low speeds pulling less then 3Gs.

 

I've attached three screenshots from a video I took flying against a buddy (sorry for the quality, it's a massive crop of the frame)

 

it was a high aspect pass converging into a rear angle pursuit.

I estimate my speed to have been around 350kts on the 500m mark, pulling hard to keep up with his angular velocity.

Note that both him and the pipper are on the edge of the HUD.

 

 

speed has probably dropped to ~220kts, (which is the speed most of the HAF vids show) around the 300m mark. which means ~2.5Gs

Note, pipper still sort of on target.

 

and here is some bad gunnery from me (I missed that burst). I got him on the next one, but because this is a crop, from a Video, taken from YT, showing the left eye of the VR HMD, you can barely see anything....

 

 

Anyway,

practice, the sight is good and working properly if you know how to use it.