Serious Question: DLC and how it will be implemented.

[IceFire]

So, we all know or should know by now, that the Tomcat uses DLC (Direct Lift Control) to fine tune it's approach for landing.

The real F-14 accomplished this via a spring-loaded scroll wheel on the stick.

 

From the Natops:

 

2.21.6.1 DLC Operation. DLC is engaged with the control stick DLC switch and commanded by the thumbwheel. The thumbwheel is spring loaded to a neutral position. Forward rotation of the wheel extends spoilers and aft rotation retracts them proportionally to the degree of thumb wheel rotation. Absolute spoiler deflection is dependent upon lateral stick position (see Figure 2.57).

 

DLC control is provided by the pitch and roll computers; the yaw computer monitors the DLC trim actuator. Upon engagement of DLC, the roll computer extends the inboard spoilers from the landing flaps down drooped (−4.5°) position to 17.5° above the flush (0°) position. The pitch computer displaces the trailing edges of the horizontal stabilizers 2.75° down from their trim position. If thumbwheel control is rotated fully forward, the spoilers extend to 55° and the stabilizer trailing edges remain at 2.75°. This increases the rate of descent. If the thumbwheel control is rotated fully aft, the spoilers retract to −4.5° and the stabilizer trailing edges return to the trim position. This decreases the rate of descent.

 

 

 

The question is, how will this be implemented in the DCS: F-14?

 

Since the rotation of the wheel extends spoilers proportionally to the degree of thumbwheel rotation, a hat switch is on/off and doesn't give you that control.

 

How are you guys at Heatblur and your SME's doing the DLC for landing?

Edited November 26, 2018 by IceFire

[Deano87]

Good question!

[VampireNZ]

I imagine it would be pretty straight forward - the thumbwheel rotates at a certain speed for as long as you hold your hat in that position, much like how trim system works in any a/c in DCS now.

Hold hat deflected longer, more DLC activation so spoiler extension/retraction.

 

But yeah over to HB.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I imagine it would be pretty straight forward - the thumbwheel rotates at a certain speed for as long as you hold your hat in that position, much like how trim system works in any a/c in DCS now.

Hold hat deflected longer, more DLC activation so spoiler extension/retraction.

 

But yeah over to HB.

 

When I first read the manual that was my interpretation too, but reading again I think that's not how it works. It's an absolute position control (like stick/ rudder etc) not relative like trim. So basically a button wouldn't work because as soon as you let go DLC would snap back to neutral.

 

That's not to say they can't do a relative control option of course.

[backspace340]

Sounds like it's another case of needing a control that we don't really have on modern HOTAS controllers - much like the radar elevation in the Hornet. That works best using something like the mini-stick on the T16K in just the vertical axis (but is a complete waste of a good TDC control if you do) - as it's an axis that springs back to neutral when you let go (like a full-size joystick).

[Tenkom]

Sounds like it's another case of needing a control that we don't really have on modern HOTAS controllers - much like the radar elevation in the Hornet. That works best using something like the mini-stick on the T16K in just the vertical axis (but is a complete waste of a good TDC control if you do) - as it's an axis that springs back to neutral when you let go (like a full-size joystick).

 

Does the pilot need a tdc controller(or even have one) In the tomcat? All the targeting and radar stuff will be handled by the Rio right?

If not then there would be no problem.

[Reflected]

It is a spring loaded thumbweel IRL. So as soon as you release it it jumps back to the neutral position (Which is spoilers ~half open, when DLC is engaged) A good compromise would be to assign buttons, and as long as you keep them depressed the DLC either opens or closes fully. At what rate, that's a good question, but I wouldn't mind something really fast. You need fast inputs in the groove, and can't afford to wait 1 sec before you can fully move a virtual thumbwheel.

[BodyOrgan]

Seems like you could use the modifiers in game to allow use of the TDC control axis to achieve this control. Basically click some button to switch modes in which the TDC now controls this function.

[Biggus]

So who's doing the first spring return potentiometer mod on a Warthog stick?

[Eldur]

Seems like you could use the modifiers in game to allow use of the TDC control axis to achieve this control. Basically click some button to switch modes in which the TDC now controls this function.

 

Definately possible, have had some double mapped axis in the A-10C and Ka-50 (wheel brake to be precise) back when they were new and I didn't have a WH throttle.

[Dino Might]

Might contribute to some bad habits, but I was thinking of using my toe brakes for this.

 

Also could use warthog TDC nub on the throttle.

Pretty much should be an axis assignment for the right behavior.

 

Edit: phone autocorrect making me sound like I'm having a stroke...

Edited November 30, 2018 by Dino Might

[MRSHADO]

Well, if Thrustmaster can just start cranking these out - Problem Solved.

[Naquaii]

While it will ofc be most realistic to use an axis, most of us in the dev team currently use the CMS on the warthog stick and that works fine!

 

The actuators on the wings are so quick that you can basically just momentarily activate up or down on the DLC.

 

Not completely realistic but definitely still useful.

[Marujet]

While it will ofc be most realistic to use an axis, most of us in the dev team currently use the CMS on the warthog stick and that works fine!

 

The actuators on the wings are so quick that you can basically just momentarily activate up or down on the DLC.

 

Not completely realistic but definitely still useful.

 

Can this be assigned to an axis?

[QuiGon]

The devs talked about how they use it in the recent Alert-5 podcast.

[Victory205]

While it will ofc be most realistic to use an axis, most of us in the dev team currently use the CMS on the warthog stick and that works fine!

 

The actuators on the wings are so quick that you can basically just momentarily activate up or down on the DLC.

 

Not completely realistic but definitely still useful.

 

I don't know how the new, four spoiler DLC was used, but the original was generally activated by a couple bangs on the thumbwheel, almost always in the down direction after crossing the ramp. DLC was there to help counter the slow spool down after the pilot added power to counter the sink behind the ship. I don't recall using DLC a whole lot during field landings.

 

The newer DLC, which appears to be modeled was better, and allowed pilots to fly the approach using more DLC inputs. The GE engined F14's had better throttle response in the first place, so not sure what the technique was with respect to DLC.

 

Practically speaking, this is a controller issue, and clicking a two position switch will work fine for your getting aboard the ship purposes.

[Manuel_108]

That‘s great to hear, Victory. Thank you for the insights.

[fat creason]

I use the analog handbrake axis on my VKB MCG stick for DLC control, it's nice.

Edited November 30, 2018 by fat creason
typo

[Naquaii]

Can this be assigned to an axis?

 

Yes

[Marujet]

Yes

 

Thank you! Although it is not a necessary as I thought from what Victory205 said above.

[Eldur]

The devs talked about how they use it in the recent Alert-5 podcast.

 

Didn't even know about that one... should've been posted here as a thread when it was new

 

Thanks for mentioning

Edited December 3, 2018 by Eldur