Pimax 5K+ DCS review and 2080ti benchmarks

[*Rage*]

Introduction

15 months ago I backed the Pimax 8KX. Following that I purchased an Odyssey as in "interim" HMD for which I posted a review here:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=204174. In essence, I wasnt impressed and went back to my 65" 4K TV for DCS (Panasonic 65AX802b) + TIR. Unfortunately, I couldnt hack the massive drop in visual quality and clarity. I was however, under no doubt, that VR was the future for flight simming, if not gaming in general.

 

Last week I finally received my 5K+! The following day I put an order for a 2080ti since it was clear to me before even trying it that even a 2080ti would struggle to deliver acceptable frame rates.

 

Ive been using the 5k+ for close to a week now and feel ready to post initial impressions. This review is really geared to users like myself that have wanted to get into VR but weren't quite ready to give up the sharp image of a normal display. Im sure current vive, rift and SO users would probably consider my settings too high given the extra pixels the 5k+ is pushing out but ive approached things somewhat differently. Instead of finding an acceptable framerate and then seeing how far I can push the graphical settings ive tried to find the minimum visual quality that I would consider acceptable to make the switch and then see what FPS I get. I love how DCS looks. Its beautiful in certain light conditions and the experience is even more amazing on a 4k big screen. Basically, im not an easy customer for VR.

 

Hardware: 8600K@5.3ghz, 32gb 3200mhz ram@CL14, 1080ti/2080ti both at 2ghz.

 

Build quality and comfort

Build quality is actually quite good. The headset feels quite sturdy despite being very light. It came well packaged and generally everything looked and felt good. The headstrap is functional but im sure something like the Vive DAS would feel alot better. Pimax are developing their own DAS. Personally im glad it doesnt have integrated headphones. The SO sounded pretty terrible and were not removable. Even an entry level Sennheiser would sound alot better and be more ergonomic. I use my own.

 

Im not a fan of the megatron look with the blue light. We look dorky enough playing flight sims.

 

Installation and software tweaking

No problems here. I installed SteamVR and then installed the Pitools software and it was instantly recognised together with the lighthouses. I had huge issues with the SO with WMR software and W10 updates. Thats probably all fixed now but im glad I had no similar issues with the pimax.

 

Note: For DCS you must check use parallel projections otherwise you get a double vision effect. This is a workaround for "older" titles but eats away at FPS. Assetto Corsa for example doesnt require it and sits quite happily at 90fps!

 

There are essentially 2 quality settings you can control outside of DCS. The Pitool Rendering Quality (default 1.0) and the SteamVR application resolution (default 100%). Im not entirely sure of the interplay between the 2 and how it works with the PD setting in DCS. But after alot of trial and error I settled on Pitool 1.25, SteamVR 100% and DCS PD 1.0. This gave me perfectly readable cockpits far beyond what I experienced with the SO.

 

Within the Nvidia control panel I changed power management to Prefer maximum performance and VR pre-rendered frames to 3. This last setting is particularly important since it removes many of the judders that you might get with low fps.

 

FOV and sweetspot

This is whats really impressive. The FOV is just great. Its not quite life like, more like looking through a scuba diving mask, but it really sets it apart from the competition. Even more importantly is the size of the sweetspot. If theres one thing that makes this HMD totally unique its the fact that the FOV is huge and most of it is perfectly focused with good clarity without even trying. I had huge issues with the SO trying to dial in its minuscule sweetspot. It felt like trying to read a map by looking through a monocular telescope. By contrast the 5k+ you just put it on and most of your vision is perfectly clear and in focus. I think this explains why I had no nausea with the 5k+ despite jumping in to the 104th almost immediately. IPD adjustment is via a scroll wheel with an OSD.

 

Distortion

In small FOV ~125 degrees – No distortion.

Normal ~150 degrees - Very minimal at the edges. Closest I can describe it like the seeping in of water at the edge your mask while scuba diving. Noticeable at first but doesn’t detract from the experience.

Large ~170 degrees – slightly more at the edges.

I preferred Normal FOV throughout my testing. There was minimal FPS difference between any of the FOV settings.

 

Clarity, definition and colour

Clarity and definition were far better than my experience with the SO. Everything in the cockpit is readable without zooming or straining your eyes. This, together with the sweetspot, in my opinion is the game changer. Spotting planes is doable but visual IFF is hard till they get closer. The colours are washed out compared to a normal display. I don’t remember the SO colours in comparison too well since a lot depends on time of day and season etc. Most people have said colours are better on the SO. OLED vs LCD. Supposedly the 5k+ is tuned to a colder colour palette and that this will be user selectable cold/warm in future updates. DCS gamma setting helps a little in this regard but I wish this was better. To be fair, none of the HMDs are in any way comparable to a good display in terms of pure visual quality.

 

SDE and Gods Rays

The SDE as I understand it is still just about perceptible although I can make out the pixel pattern against a light coloured uniform background if that makes sense. For example the pixel pattern is visible against a clear blue sky but not so against the terrain.

 

No God Rays.

 

Tracking

Fine. I use steam base stations I picked up on ebay 2nd hand.

 

Combat effectiveness.

To my surprise with very little adjustment time I was able to jump on BF and the 104th and fly combat missions effectively as a Lead and a wingman. I cant say my K/D ratio suffered due to VR. I fly modern jets mostly so visual IFF and spotting are less important. The systems help a lot. Visually I can quite easily maintain a 6-8km spread. If I were into WW2 combat I’d have more of an issue with the poorer medium range distance spotting compared to a monitor. The little time I spent in Helis was quite enjoyable. Overall im pleased.

 

FPS

Again I must reiterate that I’ve deliberately set the bar quite high. The 5K+ pushes out 4815x4113 pixels per eye with a pitools setting of 1.25 and SteamVR 100%. Pitools 1.0 and steam VR at 60% (recommended settings) push out 2984x2549 pixels and its still perfectly playable. What can I say? I like pretty.

 

I use the following graphical options:

 

All benchmarks used the instant action missions. fpsVR.

 

1080ti in black. 2080ti in red.

 

Caucasus

 

FPS, GPU frame time(ms), GPU usage(%), CPU frame time(ms)

 

F18 instant action

4v4 3240 2619 78%72% 1414

AAR 3845 2318 82%78% 98

8v8 3036 2720 75%71% 1616

Valley 3342 2719 8078 1412

 

Su27 instant action

Intercept 3444 2619 83%80% 1010

 

Ka50 Instant action

Shooting range 3741 2320 84%81% 910

 

Viggen instant action

Offensive counter air 3142 2919 85%78% 1010

 

Su25T instant action

Free flight 3645 2518 88%81% 109

 

Mig21 instant action

Free flight 2836 2921 77%71% 1820

 

PG

 

FPS, GPU frame time(ms), GPU usage(%), CPU frame time(ms)

 

F18 instant action

2v2 3340 2519 75%73% 1616

AGM65 3343 2617 80%75% 1111

Ready Ramp 2632 3024 75%69% 2222

AAR 3042 2818 83%78% 1110

 

Su-27 instant action

Intercept 3743 2619 84%80% 79

 

Ka50 instant action

Firing range 3135 2822 82%82% 1315

 

Viggen

Beach party rockets 2736 3222 80%77% 1315

 

Su25T

Strike 3340 2519 80%75% 1414

 

Overall the 2080ti yields exactly 25% uplift in fps and similar decrease in frametimes. FpsVR is a great utility and gives you a visual representation of your frametimes as well as the raw numbers above. Basically the GPU frametimes are almost always in red (bad) whereas the CPU frametimes are always green/amber (good/mediocre). Clearly the 5k+ on my rig and at those settings is GPU limited. BUT the utilisation is still only about 75-85%. DCS really needs more VR optimisation.

 

Wags, Please!?

 

Similar numbers are seen in MP. With the 2080ti on the 104thand BF I get 36-45fps fairly consistently. If you’d have asked me before I’d have said that was unplayable low but I find it actually quite playable.

 

For reference in the above missions with Pitool 1.0, SteamVR 60% and the same DCS settings I get almost 60 fps. I need to spend far more time experimenting and tweaking the options to find what works best for me. I really wish it was better documented how the pitool, SteamVR and DCS PD setting all interplay with one another. There are too many combinations to test all of them and most of us will have different preferences. As such the numbers ive posted above should not be taken as absolute fps figures since it can vary so widely (30-60fps) with the settings you select, even between software updates. Ive tried to convey what the HMD is capable of and what the FPS cost is for someone more inclined to better visuals.

 

I tried the VR mod briefly but couldn’t get it to work. Im also not too keen to mod my game much and had heard it needed further modding to make it IC compliant. Furthermore it may require further tinkering to make it compatible with the 5K+. If anyone has the expertise to make it work for me im happy to give it a go. Any extra fps id get id put into turning on MSAA!

 

Verdict

Overall im impressed with what im seeing with the 5K+. VR is a very subjective experience. For me the 3D effect is pretty cool (AAR from an Il78 was the closest I felt to a wow moment) but Im not willing to forgo all visual eye candy and sharpness for it. I think the 5K+ is probably the minimum that I would accept to make the jump. As I said before Ive set the bar pretty high. For anyone currently using any of the current generation HMDs im sure youll find the pimax a big upgrade. You will need a monster computer though.

 

For me, im gonna keep using it for a few more weeks before I totally commit. VR kinda grows on you and I am excited each time I get to fly with it. If we could get the VR optimisations that would enable me to turn up the settings and crank up the MSAA I would absolutely consider myself a VR convert. Even in its current compromised state, im fairly sure ive already made the jump.

Edited December 25, 2018 by ///Rage

[Preador]

Trying to bankrupt me here Rage? Just say its awful so I don't have to keep abusing my wallet on these toys :)

 

I would definitely turn Vsync off for VR, it caps it at 60FPS no matter what the display rate is.

On my Rift CV1, I run Anisotropic filtering on 8x, I find it hard to spot the difference between 8x and 16x.

 

 

From Nvidia:

[BigMillerTime]

Thanks Rage for this well written review. I'm excited to jump on the Pimax train with you one day! Thanks again.

[rjetster1]

Great review!!!

[jimiC]

Solid review thanks for that

I think it really starts coming down to dcs getting some more vr optimisation in place now

I went to the vive pro and I definitely want to get to the greater fovs at some point but might hold out for the next iterations and a other gen of hardware to bring it all together I think

 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Precog]

Thanks for the review mate. I'm backer 5000 so my headset ii's still a ways off.

 

Do you think DCS engine can be changed so that parallel projections can be turned off in the future with some changes on their end? I've read that you can get 30% extra frames with parallel projections off.

[Kazansky222]

I've pre-ordered a 5K+ I just pray to the Wags god that DCS get VR running like it did back in 1.5 by the time I receive mine. :)

[Buckeye]

Great review buddy, glad you're enjoying it. I can't remember the exact breakout of which settings tax the CPU and which tax the GPU, but you may want to look at bumping Visib Range up to Ultra and seeing how that treats you -- it may just tax your CPU a bit more and yield you similar FPS, and you'll notice less of the annoying trees popping in at a distance. Probably worth trying for a sortie or two to see if you think it helps (you'll find yourself testing little things like this constantly, should you stick to the VR side).

 

As for the AF recommendation above, there little to no performance gap between 8x and 16x, so don't bother turning it down.

 

Note: For DCS you must check use parallel projections otherwise you get a double vision effect. This is a workaround for "older" titles but eats away at FPS. Assetto Corsa for example doesnt require it and sits quite happily at 90fps!

 

Pretty unfortunate that a year ago Wags said he was going to meet with Pimax to work with them to optimize DCS for VR (and for the Pimax), and they couldn't even manage to get this ironed out ahead of backer orders shipping. Hopefully it's something that will be included in the VR optimization Wags has mentioned in interviews, YT comments, etc lately. They are sorely needed and long overdue.

[hansangb]

Man....I can't wait for my 5K+. Drooling now.

 

I found that Shadows ABSOLUTELY kills FPS (others have stated it already). MSAA doesn't seem to matter much. But that NVidia control panel vr render frame 3 is something I haven't played with.

 

I think the shadows problem is inherent to DCS so no amount of outside tweaking will matter. But I will give it a shot.

 

 

One question. I ordered mine with two base station and I thought I was just going to get the Vive ones. But in reading the emails from Pimax, I guess they are developing their own which isn't ready yet. Did you order yours with or w/o the base station option? And if you don't get the Vive lighthouse stations, can it track w/o the base station? I'm guessing you don't get 6DOF unless you have the base station?

 

 

Finally, did you get just one Vive lighthouse station from Ebay? Thanks again.

 

 

I see that they shipped about 1,200 units in two months. And they are shipping more each day. So I figure mine (early 3,000's) will get here around February.

Edited December 26, 2018 by hansangb

[Wolf8312]

A headset that will increase system demands holds no interest for me to be honest. I’m not exactly the opposite of the OP as I find graphics important in VR I won’t lie, but seriously I’m happy enough playing with 2x MSSA, and 1.3 pixel density. To me it looks fine already especially out of towns from high altitude, I can even live without MSSA in those situations!

 

Fo myself, I f I played on a monitor the graphics would be all zoomed out, and it wouldn’t any longer be a true simulation of real flying, just another game as I wouldn’t be 1-1 with the AC.

 

Graphics are important to me to an extent in VR, but bad performance is much more immersion breaking, and this tends to become more apparent the longer you fly in VR. I think unless major improvements to DCS come along VR users are going to find pimax frustrating. Maybe when a new graphics card comes out, and a DCS gets Vulcan, but I’d wait to see what’s in the water before jumping in!

[33-DFTC]

Thanks for the review, very informative.

[FragBum]

Sounds great will probably wait out for this to upgrade from Rift.

 

Really good to hear peripheral image quality is good however a question and I do use peripheral image view a lot typically in Gazelle looking back and up through the roof panels even to the point of moving my eyes further to identify objects that I would in real life be looking at them directly but in Rift I'm looking at the edge of the screen with degraded image quality. This lower image quality seems to be partly from Rift lens aberration and partly from 2.5.4 processing.

 

So just how clear is the image in wide FoV at the edges, usable in the above scenario? I'm okay if the very edges are slightly degraded.

 

Currently I still think 2.5.3 had better image quality across the the whole Rift image.

[Gman109]

Sigh, yet another VR headset I have to buy now. Oh well, Vives, Rifts, Odyssey's, Odyssey+s, what's another 2 or 3 headsets when you've gone through 10 already in a year.

 

 

Good review.

[ram0506]

Great review, ///Rage, thanks for that!

 

I`m still concerned about the low FPS you are gaining with that rig and the (relatively) low settings in DCS even without shadows. Shadows on low/flat is a must for me. We definitely need the promised optimisations for VR.

[*Rage*]

I actually never liked the shadows even on monitor. Cockpit shadows always seemed a bit coarse even on highest settings so at least that was an easy win for me.

 

I really want MSAA though...

Edited December 26, 2018 by ///Rage

[*Rage*]

Man....I can't wait for my 5K+. Drooling now.

 

I found that Shadows ABSOLUTELY kills FPS (others have stated it already). MSAA doesn't seem to matter much. But that NVidia control panel vr render frame 3 is something I haven't played with.

 

I think the shadows problem is inherent to DCS so no amount of outside tweaking will matter. But I will give it a shot.

 

 

One question. I ordered mine with two base station and I thought I was just going to get the Vive ones. But in reading the emails from Pimax, I guess they are developing their own which isn't ready yet. Did you order yours with or w/o the base station option? And if you don't get the Vive lighthouse stations, can it track w/o the base station? I'm guessing you don't get 6DOF unless you have the base station?

 

 

Finally, did you get just one Vive lighthouse station from Ebay? Thanks again.

 

 

I see that they shipped about 1,200 units in two months. And they are shipping more each day. So I figure mine (early 3,000's) will get here around February.

 

Without base stations you only get 3DOF. I never tested this. Keep a look out on eBay. I got my pair refurbished or something for ~£110. There was also a listing in the states for refurbished ones at ~$70 each.

[javipamp]

I'm also a backer of pimax 5k+ and I hope to receive it in 1 or 2 weeks (number 11xx). I have a 2080ti and looking forward to ED to improve VR in DCS with the promised optimisations. Many of us are jumping into VR and this flight simulator deserves it. Thanks for your review.

At the moment FS2 seems to be the only friendly VR flight simulator.

[Phantom88]

Great Review,Thanks for your time.

[dburne]

Yes nice to finally see a review from "one of us".

Great review thanks so much!

[SPIKEN]

Thank you for a very informative review.

[wormeaten]

Yes nice to finally see a review from "one of us".

Great review thanks so much!

 

 

Totally agree. Now you understand me why I was always taking Swevivers reviews with a grain of salt. All respect to his work but he can't do it with that level of details very important to dedicated DCS user.

 

 

 

:thumbup: Great review Rage now only some video is missing.

[hansangb]

Without base stations you only get 3DOF. I never tested this. Keep a look out on eBay. I got my pair refurbished or something for ~£110. There was also a listing in the states for refurbished ones at ~$70 each.

 

 

Thanks Rage. I went on to the Pimax forum and a 5K+ user tested using one base station for 6DOF and it worked. I've picked one Lighthouse up.

[hansangb]

I'm also a backer of pimax 5k+ and I hope to receive it in 1 or 2 weeks (number 11xx). I have a 2080ti and looking forward to ED to improve VR in DCS with the promised optimisations. Many of us are jumping into VR and this flight simulator deserves it. Thanks for your review.

At the moment FS2 seems to be the only friendly VR flight simulator.

 

 

 

 

Ooh. On the Pimax forum, they are up to 12xx shipment. They have a google sheets that you can check. So you sure are going to get it in a week or so.

 

 

 

Can't wait for additional reviews.

[wrl11]

Thanks for the detailed review! I just ordered one to give it a try on your review.

[*Rage*]

Do you think DCS engine can be changed so that parallel projections can be turned off in the future with some changes on their end? I've read that you can get 30% extra frames with parallel projections off.

 

No idea I'm afraid. If it could it would probably improve FPS by 20-30%.

 

ED seem to be serious about VR for DCS and that being the case I really hope they take the initiative as they indicated previously and work with Pimax.