testudine2002 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I got this game to learn about modern fighter A2A combat. My first plane was the F-18 which I am still learning and I enjoy a lot. I'm thinking of the Easter sale, and I wonder if buying the F-5 and some of its campaigns would be worth it. The main reason for getting the F-5 is for the extra content that I can buy in the form of campaigns and missions. I'm not a fighter enthusiast who feels like he needs to collect and learn a bunch of planes. One solid fighter is all I need. But maybe the F-5 could teach me useful info that I can apply to the Hornet later. I'll also admit that for someone who is completely new to DCS, it is a little hard for me to learn the Hornet because it is WIP. It would be nice to have a time tested user's guide and a plane that is not changing so much to learn with. Would this be a waste? Would the F-5 bring anything to the table that is worth mentioning in terms of learning BFM skills? Did I "miss a step" in the progression by starting with the Hornet? Should I just stick with the Hornet and wait for it to develop around me? I do enjoy a lot of things about the plane. It's just that I finished the tutorial and all the free content that it came with, and I'm not sure what to do now. I still feel like I have everything to learn. I'm not interested in an A-10 c or a helicopter. I like fighters. The user created missions tend to be advanced and complicated. Easter's coming, so I'm gonna buy something. If not a plane, then another map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frag Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I personally started with the L-39 ...outgrew it over few months and bought the F5. The F5 is a blast and does not have all the electronic goodies of the F18. You would start with raw controls and limited radar capability, which will force you to rely more on skills than electronic. I am sure you will enjoy every minutes of it. I have many aircraft and the F5 is still the one I fly the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cytarabine Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 It depends. I went for FC3 first, but if you want the more complex model it might be a little simples. Since getting more complex planes I rarely fly the FC3 planes now. I got the hornet next which I love but followed up with the Mirage (both are FBW, the Mirage is more complete and there is a good included campaign). Don’t have the F-5 yet, I will get it eventually, I think it looks like a fun plane though with a simpler set of systems though with the added complexity of less automation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgie79 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I used the A-10C mainly as a learning module. Not too fast so more time to deploy weapons, has a datalink, situational/tactical awareness display, onboard computer, wide range of AG weapons, a Targeting Pod, the works. It's one of the most complete -and complex- modules. Great to learn the basics (as far as that goes of course, like I said it's complex and a lot ;) ) of military aircraft. Not really intended for AA, obviously. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceandar Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 This is just IMHO. You should buy the module if : 1. You really like the aircraft. Like obsession. 2. You have some money to spend 3. You want to give $ to ED 4. You're bored lol Other than that, no you do not need buy the module. I have bought the module and now its just sitting nicely in my virtual hanggar collecting dust. With only 2 A2A missiles and some dumb bombs its really not my jet I'm sorry to say. I bought it because it was on sale and I was bored at that time lol Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTFDarkEagle Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 It depends. The F-5 is a great plane to fly and learn, and off course has a LOT less advanced systems and weapons. Your learning curve on the F18 would be less steap I think, if you learn something more "basic" as the F-5. I don't think it would be a waste, as it's another aircraft to fly and master, with more content. It's up to you to decide if that's worth it. Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Max2 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 F-5 will force you to master ACM/BFM... which isn't necessarily a bad thing. M-2000C gives you the fly-by-wire feel of the hornet (even more pronounced IMO) and improved radar and payload options... loses some of the simple charm the F-5 has though. FC3 gives you fighter paradise, however, your missing out on the full-fidelity aspect of DCS. If your not oppose to some ground and pound there are many more options as well. :music_whistling:I don't know if you've heard... but the F-14B is right around the corner, might want to give that a look also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsun Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) I started with the M2000C, it has two great campaigns made by Baltic Dragon, one of the best campaign creator I guess, and the first campaign is.... free, comes with the module. Very didactic campaigns indeed. And that's a great plane, fun n not too complex. Wanting to learn more about BFM, I also got the F5, good to learn flying without FBW, but I was a bit disappointed by the campaigns as they don't learn you how to BFM at all, just testing your skill at it, so might be great for those already versed in BFM, but in my case I get stuck at mission 1s lol, will come back to it later on. F14 is coming but will be full price for quite a bit and it will take times for good content to come (no campaigns from Baltic planed for now, arf) Edited March 5, 2019 by Jetsun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testudine2002 Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Awesome. I'll compare the f-5 and the m-2000. I'll get one or the other during the Easter sale just to practice / learn my bfm while they finish up the Hornet. I'm afraid that while FC3 offers a lot of bang for the buck, I'll be disappointed with the simpler systems. Unless there's an argument to be made that learning BFM in FC3 is easier since there are less distractions with fewer systems. I'm more here to learn to dogfight than learn the planes start-up / emergency / NAV procedures after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backspace340 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 The F-5 doesn't have a lot of content to go with it - really doesn't have much in the way of campaigns or missions. I would suggest either going with the Mirage (the included campaign is excellent, and I've heard great things about the Red Flag campaign) or if you want to explore more of the AG side of the Hornet, you could pick up the A-10C which has some epic campaigns (Enemy Within 3.0 is a real highlight) and will help familiarise you with using a targeting pod and a vast array of weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebabil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 This is just IMHO. You should buy the module if : 1. You really like the aircraft. Like obsession. 2. You have some money to spend 3. You want to give $ to ED 4. You're bored lol this FC3 | UH-1 | Mi-8 | A-10C II | F/A-18 | Ka-50 III | F-14 | F-16 | AH-64 | Mi-24 | F-5 | F-15E| F-4| Tornado Persian Gulf | Nevada | Syria | NS-430 | Supercarrier // Wishlist: CH-53 | UH-60 Youtube MS FFB2 - TM Warthog - CH Pro Pedals - Trackir 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaMike Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 If it's modern a/a combat you're interested in, I'd consider adding an air superiority fighter to the mix. You want something fast, with loiter time, BVR capability, good at spamming long-range active missiles. F15 is cheap, available now. Fast. Simple model that lacks nav or comm features, although there are work-arounds. F14 won't be cheap, not yet avail (soon, they say). Not all that fast but the Phoenix missile seems fast enough. And it's Navy, if you're interested in carrier based strike packages. Personally I think the Hornet's advantage is in close. It can fire AIM120C, and will have TWS eventually, but it's slow, doesn't accelerate very fast, hard to put enough stank on that missile to make it truly effective, and if you're running around in AB you run out of gas pretty quickly. In real life, you get tired of spending the money to purchase and maintain F14's, you get the idea in your head that the F18 can do it all, and keep telling yourself that. In our world, F14's only cost 60 bucks and never need maintenance. What's not to like? Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessuno0505 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) F-5 is a 1970s platform with a quite simple avionics, you don't have all the situational awareness of more modern jets, you have just two sidewinders for aa engagements, with the help of a very basic radar to help you identify targets. No BVR, no radar guided missiles. Just two sidewinders, cannon, free fall bombs and rockets. You can bring LGBs but you need an external laser to illuminate (a JTAC or something). You must build a suited mission against 1970s assets in the air (mig-21s, tu-95s, ecc) and on the ground to be effective and enjoy it. In addition, the plane is very easy to learn and very fun to fly, and you can also use it just for aerobatics (swiss team do so IRL). There are some bugs since 2.5 not fixed yet and a new annoying bug (HUD missing textures) in the last openbeta (reported and I hope fixed before merging to stable). Edited March 5, 2019 by nessuno0505 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zius Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I don't think that any module is a "waste". All of them are well built and worth their price. Early access modules may still have some imperfections, but that's why they are "early access". However, some aircraft may be more suitable for you personally than others. This depends on a couple of things, like what do you want to get out of DCS? - The most modern and most capable combat experience? - More old school seat of your pants flying? - Aerobatics? - etc. etc. But one thing I learned, is that the aircraft which interests you the most may not be the one that you like to fly the most. My favourite aircraft is the L-39, which is an aircraft that, before I got it in DCS, never really interested me. But in DCS, I've learned to appreciate it, because it's simple to operate (I don't have a lot of time to learn complex aircraft), very enjoyable to fly, surprisingly capable and surprisingly multi-role. Of course it also has limitations, but those don't bother me that much. Unfortunately, it's also kind of hard to predict which aircraft you'll enjoy flying and which will mostly gather dust. Personally, I've come to realise that I'm not a fan of FBW and that I'm unlikely to enjoy very complex aircraft, simply because I lack the time. Personally I would recommend that you buy the F-5 at the next sale, and maybe you should consider picking up the C-101 as well. Like the L-39, the C-101 is a simple aircraft that can learn you a lot. Modules: Bf 109, C-101, CE-II, F-5, Gazelle, Huey, Ka-50, Mi-8, MiG-15, MiG-19, MiG-21, Albatros, Viggen, Mirage 2000, Hornet, Yak-52, FC3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I got this game to learn about modern fighter A2A combat. My first plane was the F-18 which I am still learning and I enjoy a lot. I'm thinking of the Easter sale, and I wonder if buying the F-5 and some of its campaigns would be worth it. The main reason for getting the F-5 is for the extra content that I can buy in the form of campaigns and missions. I'm not a fighter enthusiast who feels like he needs to collect and learn a bunch of planes. One solid fighter is all I need. But maybe the F-5 could teach me useful info that I can apply to the Hornet later. I'll also admit that for someone who is completely new to DCS, it is a little hard for me to learn the Hornet because it is WIP. It would be nice to have a time tested user's guide and a plane that is not changing so much to learn with. Although the F-5 has simpler systems, it's harder to use effectively - starting out, you'll be using AWACS/F10 to find targets. Would this be a waste? IMHO, yes (other than learning to appreciate the Hornet's systems more). Would the F-5 bring anything to the table that is worth mentioning in terms of learning BFM skills? Not, particularly - you can turn off the Hornets data Link, set your radar to 2 bar/80° and load up 2 sidewinders and achieve a similar spec. Did I "miss a step" in the progression by starting with the Hornet? Yes, but not in a bad way. A T-45 trainer is equipped with Hornet systems to train navy pilots, in a sim. it's possible to train in the Hornet without cost/equipment penalty. Should I just stick with the Hornet and wait for it to develop around me? I do enjoy a lot of things about the plane. It's just that I finished the tutorial and all the free content that it came with, and I'm not sure what to do now. It sounds like you're ready to move to the Mission Editor and create some simple training missions. Yes I still feel like I have everything to learn. I'm not interested in an A-10 c or a helicopter. I like fighters. The user created missions tend to be advanced and complicated. Perhaps look at the navy's CNATRA (T-45) training material and setup some simple 1v2 missions vs L-39 or similar using the ME and once confident/bored step up the difficulty/aircraft type. Easter's coming, so I'm gonna buy something. If not a plane, then another map. Buying maps, you'll face the same issue re:content and the need to use the mission editor. With regards to other aircraft, it'll depend if your happy to be a "jack of all trades (master of none)" or have the patience to practice/become expert in the Hornet in all it's aspects. I switch modules for variety ("a change is as good as a rest") - but it gets harder to maintain competency the more modules you own. i9 9900K @4.8GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panton41 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I have the Hornet and Harrier and picked up the F-5 for shits and giggles during the Steam Lunar New Year sale. I mostly fly it just for the fun of it without much thought to learning much more than basic airmanship. A big plus is the systems are so simple I'd memorized the startup and taxi procedure just by reading the manual a few times. (I had a lot of downtime at my old job.) I've described it to my friends who play video games as a scooter with wings, while the Hornet is a car with all the electronic bells and whistles and you're not quite sure what everything does. (The Harrier is a 4-wheeler for mudding, the F-14 is a muscle car and the A-10 is a panel van for bombs.) Whether it's worth getting is up to you, but I'd recommend getting it (and really any DCS module) on sale. Windows 10 64-bit | Ryzen 9 3900X 4.00GHz (OC) | Asus Strix B450-F | 64GB Corsair Vengeance @ 3000MHz | two Asus GeForce 1070 Founders Edition (second card used for CUDA only) | two Silicon Power 1TB NVMe in RAID-0 | Samsung 32" 1440p Monitor | two ASUS 23" 1080p monitors | ASUS Mixed Reality VR | Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS | MFG Crosswind A-10C Warthog | AV-8B Harrier (N/A) | F/A-18C Hornet | F-16C Viper | F-14B Tomcat | UH-1H Huey | P-51D Mustang | F-86F Saber | Persian Gulf | NTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I'm afraid that while FC3 offers a lot of bang for the buck, I'll be disappointed with the simpler systems. Unless there's an argument to be made that learning BFM in FC3 is easier since there are less distractions with fewer systems. I'm more here to learn to dogfight than learn the planes start-up / emergency / NAV procedures after all. I think FC3 fighters are just for you. I noticed you just got the Eagle :thumbup: Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Rift S T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkey_badgers Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 My first module - apart from having the old A10C edition, was the Mirage. Always liked it and it is a very capable jet, flies extremely easy. And not a hugely difficult platform to master, but older technology than the hornet. I then bought the hornet as soon as it was released, simply for the love of the design and more modern fighter. I still love the M2K now if I'm struggling in the hornet a little I'll jump to the mirage. If Razbam do indeed get onto a M2k-5 further down the line - well big smiles all round! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testudine2002 Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 I think FC3 fighters are just for you. I noticed you just got the Eagle :thumbup: Yes, I thought about all of your suggestions. Even though I thought that I needed a "high fidelity" module, I realized towards the end, that was just a pride thing. What I really wanted was something cheap and easy to learn to dogfight in with copious content / instruction released. I did get the Eagle, and this could be the best $12 I ever spent. I'm going to buy the Nevada test map next and the BFM mission pack later today. This was my perfect solution--thanks for helping me make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cercata Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 For a real pilot would be a waste, go in a less capable plane. But for a GAME, it's fun to get an old plane, that you have to make somethings manually, so it changes the way you play. No IFF, you have to be sure you don't hit a friend, like happened IRL to the first planes capable of BVR, that's a lot of strees for my now with the F-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kazansky Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Whenever I get out of the Hornet to fly the F-5 I think like: Man, this feels like real air around me. The FA-18 is about systems and domination. The non FBW planes are about flying.So is the F-5. (A-10C is about both ;) ) I don't see any DCS aircraft as a waste of money even if I fly 10x more with the Hornet. btw if money is the problem then you should have a few bucks left for the F-14! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frag Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Whenever I get out of the Hornet to fly the F-5 I think like: Man, this feels like real air around me. LOLL I liked this one. If you love that "flying feel" (I know exactly what you mean) ... then you REALLY need to try out the L39. Yeah I know its system are even more limited than the F5, but the L39 has a perfect flight model and it is by far the aircraft that gives the strongest flying impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 If you love that "flying feel" (I know exactly what you mean) ... then you REALLY need to try out the L39. Yeah I know its system are even more limited than the F5, but the L39 has a perfect flight model and it is by far the aircraft that gives the strongest flying impression. How'd you compare it to Su-25T? Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Rift S T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svsmokey Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 LOLL I liked this one. If you love that "flying feel" (I know exactly what you mean) ... then you REALLY need to try out the L39. Yeah I know its system are even more limited than the F5, but the L39 has a perfect flight model and it is by far the aircraft that gives the strongest flying impression. :thumbup: 9700k @ stock , Aorus Pro Z390 wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Pro throttle and T50CM2/WarBrD base on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , Reverb G2v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frag Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) How'd you compare it to Su-25T? I am pretty sure you mean as far as flight model goes since those two birds have completely different goals in mind. The SU-25T is battlefield monster and the L39 is a light attack aircraft/trainer. The L39 is a DCS high fidelity aircraft and the Su-25T is a basic one. The difference is night and day as far as flying goes. The L-39 is a very effective light attack aircraft when put in the hand of a skilled pilot. It is a BLAST to fly in DCS. I strongly recommend that aircraft to newbies (like myself) who want to learn a lot about flying before jumping in the electronic typhoon of more recent aircraft like the F-18. Everyone took different path but here was mine in DCS. - Started with L-39 and got very effective with it and learned A LOT from it! Not much electronic help in there, you start RAW ... everything is simple to understand, but difficult to master. - Then bought the F-5 Tiger, worked on it for few months. What I learned from the L-39 directly transferred in the F-5. - Recently bought the A-10 and the Mirage at the last sale, but did not jumped seriously into those yet. Edited March 6, 2019 by Frag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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