Eaglewings Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) Equally flying based on feel/"seat of your pants" IRL rather than looking at speed/alt gauges is probably much more doable because the seat of your pants is actually getting some feedback. And as you note, an awful lot of things in the cockpit are between quite and incredibly hard to read. I'm reminded of doing the cold start training mission and struggling to make out (even on full zoom) with certainty the markings of the position on the BIT dial on the RH console. Although i'll try an earlier suggestion someone made of sticking the console lighting on to see if it improves things.There is mod that you can use now that give very good clarity on the right console. You can download from the dcs user file section and install. Works really good. Heatblur did an amazing job with the Tomcat. When on low speed you get some subtle vibration. The aircraft gives you feedback that would make you check your airspeed and spoilers. I still feel it would not diminish the work they have done now if vital instruments panels are made clearer. Pain to keep zooming to get precise airspeed during aar, Time on target missions and other missions that you would need the airspeed. Note: I have read the right console mod does not pass integrity check during multiplayer section Edited March 20, 2019 by Eaglewings Windows 10 Pro 64bit|Ryzen 5600 @3.8Ghz|EVGA RTX 3070 XC3 Ultra|Corair vengence 32G DDR4 @3200mhz|MSI B550|Thrustmaster Flightstick| Virpil CM3 Throttle| Thrustmaster TFRP Rudder Pedal /Samsung Odyssey Plus Headset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAsReLiCT Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 yeah its hard always checkig the instruments and flying, combat and so on. Yeah Right thats hard work and you need multi-tasking-skills. The Tomcat is not a TOY The underground is where I dwell at, It's where I find my heaven, and where you find your hell at :music_whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfr Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 There is mod that you can use now that give very good clarity on the right console. You can download from the dcs user file section and install. Works really good. Heatblur did an amazing job with the Tomcat. When on low speed you get some subtle vibration. The aircraft gives you feedback that would make you check your airspeed and spoilers. I still feel it would not diminish the work they have done now if vital instruments panels are made clearer. Pain to keep zooming to get precise airspeed during aar, Time on target missions and other missions that you would need the airspeed. Note: I have read the right console mod does not pass integrity check during multiplayer section Cheers, i'll take a look later. I'm about a million hours logged away from taking it near multiplayer so not worried about any clash with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 yeah its hard always checkig the instruments and flying, combat and so on. Yeah Right thats hard work and you need multi-tasking-skills. The Tomcat is not a TOYYeah, and the sim pilot has the additional "kick" from not feeling any movement, no peripheral vision, degraded resolution when viewing instruments, fiddling with a mouse (like you are an amputee with just one finger and thumb left) all adding to the workload, so he is even much more cool than a "simple" real life Tomcat driver. Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglewings Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Cheers, i'll take a look later. I'm about a million hours logged away from taking it near multiplayer so not worried about any clash with that!Here is the link. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3303911/ Windows 10 Pro 64bit|Ryzen 5600 @3.8Ghz|EVGA RTX 3070 XC3 Ultra|Corair vengence 32G DDR4 @3200mhz|MSI B550|Thrustmaster Flightstick| Virpil CM3 Throttle| Thrustmaster TFRP Rudder Pedal /Samsung Odyssey Plus Headset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umkhunto Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 The two situations where I find reading the analog speed dial difficult are when trying to maintain corner speed, or when trying to maintain speed in a sustained turn. Even then the only reason I find it difficult is the resolution; with the FOV I need to fly the numbers are incredibly small and fuzzy. For me maintaining corner speed is simple in the Tomcat. I know it's 325KIAS. So I know the needle must be between 300-400, about 3 needle widths. That's worked for me so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 This probably doesn't help much but interestingly I think I found a digital readout for the indicated air speed on the HSD, just flip the mode switch down and you will see it just left of the stick. Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesvf103 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Me: Why don't we have the SparrowHawk HUD in the F-14B? Heatblur: the sparrowhawk upgrade that some tomcats received didn’t come until quite late, the B we model had the same hud as the AThat being said, if we ever do a D model we would include the sparrow hawk hud there! Me:Maybe you can do a late f14b add-on or update? Heatblur: Wouldn’t say never but probably not, might as well do the D in that case. The models and their upgrades were very mixed up, Not at all as clear cut as most people expect . v6, boNes "Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbak Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 No, no! It's impossible to fly without airspeed on the HUD, just like it is impossible to drive across town without Google Maps on your iPhone! The Spitfire has airspeed on the HUD right? That's how the RAF won the Battle of Britain... ;) LOL...Exactly! I think I'm just too old. :smilewink: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]WIN 10, i7 10700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2080 Super, Crucial 1TB SSD, Samsung EVO 850 500GB SSD, TM Warthog with 10cm extension, TIR5, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Wheelstand Pro, LG 40" 4K TV, Razer Black Widow Ultimate KB[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 For me maintaining corner speed is simple in the Tomcat. I know it's 325KIAS. So I know the needle must be between 300-400, about 3 needle widths. That's worked for me so far. I'm confused by you statement, isn't the dial set up in mach as in .6 , .5, .4 etc? So 325kn = ~ mach.5. I notice keeping it between mach .6 and .4 is the sweet spot. Also what do you mean by "3 needle widths"? Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Jockey Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Why do you want the speed in the HUD? Why is it so important to you? Honestly, I need the speed only for informational purpose from time to time. And I think everyone is refering to the F-18 because people are coming from her, are used to all her comfort and thought they could now fly that cool plane from Top Gun in the same way. It is just simply not... The F-14 is a granny. A real cool one, but still a granny. F14D - Super Tomcat is what you are looking for, but that has not anymore much to do with a "real" F-14... Wait for the A version (which was used for more then 80%(?) in RL) and then whining will really start... Why ?? Because he feels the need... the need for SPEED !! :D He (probably) "wanted" the speed in the HUD, for the same reason many other simmers think they want it: They were used to that since the first flight sims they met and tried, and also they didn't know that much about the F-14 before buying the module. Likewise, if in the future an F-4 Phantom II module does come out, probably some more people expecting the "speed in the HUD", will be in for a ride again. :lol: So, obviously what he was expecting was, something like the already mentioned SparrowHawk HUD from the F-14D ... which for me, certainly would not be as appealing as the old HUDs and symbols logic presented in the F-14A and B. In my impression, these old HUD symbology design and logic, are what composes part of the soul of the F-14 Tomcat. For "modern" HUDs there's the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and F-22 already to chose from. So, personally I don't "feel the need for the speed". I feel that: - once every weapon system gets too automated; - auto-lock for eveything; - just point & shoot left and right... the sims / aircrafts start loosing their appeal. Hangar FC3 | F-14A/B | F-16C | F/A-18C | MiG-21bis | Mirage 2000C ... ... JA 37 | Kfir | MiG-23 | Mirage IIIE Mi-8 MTV2 system i7-4790 K , 16 GB DDR3 , GTX 1660 Ti 6GB , Samsung 860 QVO 1TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Might Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I've flown the engines off the F5 prior to release of the Cat, so I feel that the HUD is just fine, especially when you set declutter on. I don't see the need for airspeed and alt in the HUD for formation flying. I still use flat screen trackIR, and it's no issue matching speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I'm confused by you statement, isn't the dial set up in mach as in .6 , .5, .4 etc? So 325kn = ~ mach.5. I notice keeping it between mach .6 and .4 is the sweet spot. Also what do you mean by "3 needle widths"?Mach is a variable scale that accounts for pressure height. The Mach dial moves depending on altitude. the inner dial (between the two needles) corresponds to IAS. So cornerspeed should be about/below 0.6 Mach.... Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Mach is a variable scale that accounts for pressure height. The Mach dial moves depending on altitude. the inner dial (between the two needles) corresponds to IAS. So cornerspeed should be about/below 0.6 Mach.... Yes Agreed Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrohde Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 ;3849024']The sarcasm is strong with this one. Well, judging by how many question- and exclamation marks were used in the thread title might require at least a little sarcasm... seriously. ;) PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrohde Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) I'm confused by you statement, isn't the dial set up in mach as in .6 , .5, .4 etc? So 325kn = ~ mach.5. I notice keeping it between mach .6 and .4 is the sweet spot. Also what do you mean by "3 needle widths"? So why not look at the inner ring that displays knots? I find that easier than looking at the outer Mach ring. Edited March 20, 2019 by rrohde PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shimmergloom667 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 So why not look at the inner ring that displays knots? I find that easier than looking at the outer Mach ring. Come on, that is really too easy! ;) i7 - 9700K | 32 GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 2080 | VKB Gunfighter Mk II /w MCG Pro | Virpil T-50CM2 Throttle | TrackIR 5 | VKB Mk. IV AJS-37 | A/V-8B | A-10C | F-14A/B | F-16C | F-18C | F-86F | FC3 | JF-17 | Ka-50 | L-39 | Mi-8 | MiG-15bis | MiG-19 | MiG-21bis | M2000-C | P-51D | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | UH-1H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 So why not look at the inner ring that displays knots? I find that easier than looking at the outer Mach ring. Because your cornerspeed in KIAS @ 10,000 ft is different, than @ 30,000 ft, while the Mach number is always 0.6 M... at least that's my reason. On landing approach the IAS is better as you are below 5,000 ft most of the time and the pressure variance isn't that much of an issue, especially when adjusting to QFE. Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticfringe Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Speed is important when your are flying in formation (rpm also), refueling, landing (aoa also), dive bombing. Anyway everyone has different thoughts. Consequenlty i am having difficulties because of blurry fonts and its location in the cockpit despite i have trackir. and i will be happy if it's done If you're looking for speed while flying formation, whether with a flight lead or a tanker, or during landing once configured, there are more fundamental issues at play than a lack of knots on the HUD. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt.Seahawk Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) I really don't see a problem with reading the airspeed from the gauge instead of a HUD. Older airframes were just like that and once you are used to it you will keep it in your periphery whenever you fly. Reading through some of the threads here makes me think that some people were unaware of what they've actually bought themselves into. Edited March 20, 2019 by Lt.Seahawk DCS F-14 Tomcat Alley Discord Server: https://discord.gg/ceS859w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kengou Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Regarding the airspeed gauge, how come the whole thing rotates (e.g. when slowing down to landing speeds)? When and why? I also notice the needle 'bugs' you can set on the outsides move too but seem to get misaligned with the numbers? What's going on there? Virpil WarBRD | Thrustmaster Hornet Grip | Foxx Mount | Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle | Logitech G Throttle Quadrant | VKB T-Rudder IV | TrackIR 5 AMD Ryzen 5 3600 | Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB | 32GB DDR4 3200 | SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfox Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Sorry about hijacking the thread a bit, but about the HUD I have a probably ultra stupid question: Why is the 0° pitch never at the right place? I know we can trim the pitch lader with a knob, but why would this be not aligned by default? INU gyro drift? Bad calibration when starting a mission directly in flight? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) So why not look at the inner ring that displays knots? I find that easier than looking at the outer Mach ring. Ahhh ok ok got it, thanks, Well the Mach number is a bit bigger, I use VR and the res is not so great, so the bigger mach numbers are easier to glance at in a dogfight and I would say more relevant as it factors in alt/pres EDIT: rethinking it the KIAS is more important bc of lift. Edited March 20, 2019 by Delta59R Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory205 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 @Oldfox. I don't know. Maybe it was to put the reference in the middle of the windscreen. There was no combining glass, the symbology was projected on the windscreen itself. Wasn't designed for primary flight information far better than anything else at the time. That rapidly changed. Took forever for the USN to upgrade it. Too busy spending money on ships that we really didn't need. Viewpoints are my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Regarding the airspeed gauge, how come the whole thing rotates (e.g. when slowing down to landing speeds)? When and why? I also notice the needle 'bugs' you can set on the outsides move too but seem to get misaligned with the numbers? What's going on there?Sorry, but that would be part of a "Fundamentals of Jet flight" thread. so just some pointers as introduction: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indicated_airspeed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts