Training A Relic To Catch The Hook

[Radial9]

So, I’m reading through Chucks Hornet guide this morning and I’m thinking why not begin my DCS jet training with the Hornet, now that it can fly in 2.5 stable, and bypass the year or so I was envisioning with the DCS training jets. I’m a real GA pilot, I have sixteen years flightsiming with 1000’s of logged hours. I've put about 25 hours into the A10. I’ve a few dozen hours flying the YAK using Steve Thompson’s “Air Combat Manoeuvres” and am slowly getting though Robert Shaw’s “Fighter Combat” in the outhouse library. If I’m going to spend literally hundreds to thousands of hours reading, training, flying, rinse and repeat for a year or two to just get “somewhat” proficient why not just get right to it and cut my DCS teeth with the Hornet? I have a Warthog setup and would buy 3 TM Cougar MFD’s right off.

 

I did a search on “training” here and read all the posts. There are others coming over from props, but this subject was not directly addressed. Looking back would you have taken this route or gone the more traditional route? As the wife keeps reminding me, “you do know it’s a video game….right??”. I can just splash, crash, get up and dust myself off, learn from my failure and climb back into the office. Makes sense to me.

 

I’m just getting the feeling I’m getting sidetracked learning other weapon systems and particulars when I could just “jet right to it”. Thoughts, Opinions, Advice, Experiences,

Do’s/Don’ts??

 

I know, make up my own F'in mind, but sometimes experience can help the decision along.

 

Thanks!

 

Bob

Edited March 29, 2019 by Radial9

[SmirkingGerbil]

Owned DCS for awhile, but my initial and first love into this title was the KA-50. As far as modules went when I started playing, the KA-50 and Warthog were probably the most complex. In fact, I shied away from the Warthog. Over time I dabbled with the P-51, and signed on for the up coming ME-262 and P-47. However, after tiring of other games I decided it was time to take on the A-10C, and all of it's complexity.

 

 

 

To answer your question, if you have a hankering for the Hornet, dive in, make the commitment it is well worth the investment.

 

 

 

The A-10 has always been a keen desire of mine, and I finally started taking it serious about 6 months ago. One Thrustmaster Warthog purchase in, along with the TRFP pedals and Track IR (one of my first purchases years ago), I can say I should have done this years ago.

 

 

I still have so much to learn, but have gotten through much of the basics and learning arcane things like how to ripple fire Mavericks, and use "Force Correlate" along with a myriad of other little things that multiply the experience beyond anything I imagined.

 

 

Since you still seem to be at the threshold for "do I want to go all in with this airframe" and you are walking around the edges with the Hornet, I say go all in, put in the time. Learn it, I am sure it will be as rewarding for you, as the A-10 has been for me. :thumbup:

[victorlima01]

I struggled with the same decision process and I'm as thorough as you apparently. However, I'd been waiting literally more than a decade for high-fidelity sim of the hornet. So I just dove right in and it was my first (and only) jet in DCS. What I did was a lot of flying around to get a feel for the jet, and when I felt confident enough started flying around the boat. Next came a lot of navigation, followed by Case III and finally AAR. After 4 or 5 months I finally felt like I could handle the jet around the boat and I joined a virtual squadron. There I discovered just how much I'd have to train to be somewhat proficient at form flying, and BFM. I've been with them for about two months and even though I'm the straggler of the group I've been having tons of fun and been getting much better.

 

So to answer your question, if you love the jet and that's the one you want to stick with than by all means dive right into it! I agree with you that learning other jets and weapons systems that you won't use in the long run might be a waste of time (a good way to waste time though - you'll be flying!).

[Sierra99]

Personally I believe your wife is right. I have always believed the "Trainer First" path in a flight sim was a waste of time for every reason she listed.

 

We do it this way in the real world because A.) we don't get endless lives and B.) we cant be scattering multi-MILLION dollar aircraft across the landscape 2-3 time before we get the hang of getting it off the ground.

 

This is supposed to be enjoyable. You should have to spend 6 months flying one sim just to learn how to fly another Especially since you are already a pilot.

[DeltaMike]

With your background, the Hornet may be the easiest full-fidelity sim to get into. Everything is automatic. To give but one example, you already know how to make a coordinated turn. If you didn't, and had done your training in a Hornet, you would have no idea what that was.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's fun to fly. You'll be amazed what this thing can do.

 

Even from a sim viewpoint, if you understand avionics, you'll find it's way easier to just operate buttons in the cockpit than it is to remember key bindings. There's only one weird keybinding, which you use to hook into the catapault. You need key bindings for things like the menu, chat window, kneeboard, stuff like that. Otherwise it's all a matter of just flying the thing. And it's obvious to me that the system was designed to reduce pilot workload and to reduce training time. It's an amazingly well engineered system.

 

The only downside to the DCS hornet is, it still doesn't have an automatic "respond or die" system. Makes it a little awkward in multiplayer. "Why did you shoot me down?" "Couldn't tell if it was a box or a diamond, plus it kept flipping back and forth" etc. "Buddy spike. Don't do it. Don't do it!!!! ARRRGGGGHHHH" You'll get that a lot. You can do manual IFF interrogation and it's well integrated into a beautiful situational awareness scheme but still. Hornet drivers are eager to get TWS; the rest of us are dreading it.

 

If you're really focused on air superiority, it's not your best choice, for a couple of reasons. For flying around, learning carrier ops, blowing stuff up, and tangling with the occasional MIG, it's pretty awesome, and you can be thankful the F15's and F14's are on your side (usually) so please don't shoot us.

Edited March 29, 2019 by DeltaMike

[Mule]

Yeah, get stuck in right away. The deep end is where all the challenging stuff is and the rewards are so much better.

 

You've obviously got a passion for the more technical and cerebral stuff so don't waste your time and get inside the pit you want.

[probad]

its cool to fully engage yourself in learning something but your wifes right, its just a video game at the end of the day

when you blur the lines between entertainment and reality then you start getting into problem territory

 

if you got something you want to do, then just go ahead and do it

makes no damn sense to me to have to ask the internet's approval unless you just want to hear some honeyed words to make yourself feel good

Edited March 29, 2019 by probad

[Gladman]

I have no idea why anybody would go the trainer route. I agree with your wife.

[Yurgon]

It's a pretty great question to ask! :thumbup:

 

When I started with DCS, there was just the Ka-50, and later on the A-10C, so there was never any way to start with prop or jet trainers (unless going outside of DCS).

 

I've gotten most modules and I feel that I really learned a lot about flying in a few hours in the Yak-52 because it's such a basic, down to earth aircraft. If you were entirely new to flying and/or flight sims, I'd actually recommend getting the hang of it in something like the Yak first, and maybe even go transition to L-39 or C-101 later on, for a virtual career so to speak.

 

But IMHO there are 2 good reasons to go right ahead and jump into the Hornet pit.

 

a) You already have experience, and probably more than many others around here, so it seems you got the basics of flying already.

 

b) Life is too short, and flying a high-powered 4th gen military jet is just too much fun :D

 

Besides, I don't think any DCS trainer is really going to prepare anyone for the avionics and the human/machine interface of the Hornet. Sure, it helps to fiddle with TACAN on a classical HSI, but if you've ever tuned in a VOR/DME, you'll know exactly what the Hornet does with TACAN anyway. The FBW is also unique, we don't have any FBW trainers currently, and since it's almost impossible to stall the Hornet (at least compared to the Tomcat :D), what good would it do anyone to learn proper spin recovery in the Albatros?

 

And then, there's JDAM and AMRAAM and AIM-9X and HMCS and SA page and IFF and carrier ops, and none of this can be learned outside of the F/A-18C (except by using the FC3 aircraft, for some of these systems).

 

If you jump right in, I don't think you'd be missing out on anything.

[A2597]

Get the F-18.

I haven't played any sims in 10 years, but before that had hundreds of hours in an F-16 and F-22.

 

DCS is a different beast entirely than those games, but so much more rewarding. F-18 is a joy to fly, and I have little doubt that you will be taking off and landing right away in it. (As soon as you learn where the flaps and gear is anyway).

 

 

 

Then it's just getting better at it, and learning more things. "Oh, I can land on an airfield? Now to learn to land on the boat". or "Now to learn to navigate" or blow stuff up, or....

 

 

 

yea. Get the F-18, skip the trainers, and have fun.

[Sarge55]

I have to agree with the other posters and your wife. Go straight to the Hornet, it's pretty easy to fly. (Disclaimer: Based solely on my sim experience I have no idea what a real one flies like.)

 

However, the systems are getting more and more complicated as it is updated but that's mostly "button-ology".

[wiz_of_wuz]

Get the hornet.. In many ways the Hornet is an easy aircraft to fly.......

[CBStu]

If you want to fly the Hornet go for it. I started DCS 5-6 months ago flying the P51 that came w/ DCS world. Soon bought the P51 so I could have guns and bombs. Bought the A10 cause I think it is an awesome plane. But I started going through the training tutorial and so much was going over my head it wasn't even funny. Plus the tutorial sucks in that I couldn't figure a way to make the text come back after it disappeared. He said to do what??????? in which order????. huh? So, I had previously been flying a Hornet in XPlane which I liked but that one has a grossly overdone automatic trim control. So I got the DCS FA18. This thing is a blast. Flies great. I have probably done 500 carrier straight-in traps and am up to maybe 75% of them work. W/ help from here I have figured out the AoA flying finally. Carrier traps doing the standard pattern are maybe 5-10% successful but never pretty. But a TM Warthog throttle has made a huge improvement there. I figured out ICLS right away and am slowly learning TACAN and the radio. I have no clue about any other kind of navigation but will slowly learn it. The other investment I strongly advise is TrackIR. I haven't tried VR but TIR is such an advance over screwing around w/ views controlled by arrow keys and hat switches etc it isn't even funny.

[Lex Talionis]

... jump into our discord, will be happy to help ya out.

[Radial9]

Well that did not take much convincing. Thank you Gentlemen for the confirmation of my thinking.

 

I've also received an offer to buy the 4th MFD panel if I buy two sets, which I did. They should be here Monday. Down the rabbit hole I go. I'm going to take my time binding my TM HOTAS and Throttle using Chucks guide as a start and getting the MFD's fully configured before hoping in the front office with manuals to begin folding aluminum all over the countryside.

 

I'm going to pull the trigger on the Hornet purchase later this afternoon. I already have the Nevada terrain. Are most all of the Hornet training missions and campaigns in the Persian Gulf terrain? I can pick it up if need be. Nevada or Persian Gulf to start?

[Etirion]

Are most all of the Hornet training missions and campaigns in the Persian Gulf terrain? I can pick it up if need be. Nevada or Persian Gulf to start?

 

All training missions are in the free caucasus, and theres plenty of instant action missions to practice with there too.

 

Personally I'd recommend the Persian Gulf Map, its fantastic to fly around and should receive some campaigns there in the future, right now the only campaign that we have in the early access version is in the caucasus. But you can always find community missions and campaigns online or make some yourself if you wanna go real deep down the rabbit hole ;)

Edited March 30, 2019 by Etirion

[Radial9]

Thank You! I spent a few hours reviewing Lex's vids this morning. While I have only been reading DCS threads for a year or so, his AOA vid is the best DCS video I have ever seen. The man knows his stuff and can articulate it well. Probably in the top 3 of all the flightsim vids I have ever watched. The whole series were extremely helpful in giving me an idea of where I'm heading.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Radial9

[CBStu]

Lex's videos? Where do i find them?

[Radial9]

CBStu,

 

[Zeagle]

I actually recommend the Su25 and the FA-18 as first jets. The FA-18 gives you a lot of bang for the buck and will keep you interested for a long time.

[CBStu]

Thanks Radial9. I have watched and saved a link to his vids. Fantastic info. I just didn't know his name.

[Cytarabine]

The Hornet was my gateway drug. Was my first fully fledged module and after it I can’t go back to the FC3 planes. This has been followed by the Mirage and the Tomcat, but I still prefer the Hornet as a daily driver (as much as I love both the Mirage and Tomcat)

[Radial9]

... jump into our discord, will be happy to help ya out.

 

Thanks Lex! Now that I have installed Discord, learned a bit of what it is and how to use it, might I obtain an unexpired invite to that server? If only to observe, read and learn at first.

 

I REALLY AM a relic. Got the F18C installed, controls bound and manuals either printed or handy on my Surface with hard copy in the crapper reading bin. Have 3 new USB MFDs sitting on the desk.

 

Staring the first six feet of the mountain of a learning curve in the face. All in good time.

[victorlima01]

Don't worry! You'll get there! Lex's Discord is a great place to get help and learn how the pros do it.

[probad]

Literally not possible. A single year is only 8,760 hours. 100,000 hours would take 11.42 years.

you know, misreading what a guy wrote because you're too eager to look smart only makes you look even more stupid