Valve Index Hands On

[Nahemoth]

Hi,

 

I'm trying to decide between different VR choices... it seems that reverb and index are amazing,but there is not stock! On the other hand we have the rift s, less performance but at least it is available.

 

So taking all these into account, I was thinking on acquiring a rift s for my current system (9700K, 2080Ti, 32GB), where the main goal is to play sims.

 

What do you think? Am I wrong? Is it better to wait?

[remi]

He never said real pilots do that. He said is a minor annoyance to who’s using VR.

 

I’m not sure I understand what’s your goal here ? To explain us VR cultist in a VR forum why we shouldn’t have fun because obviously the only way to have fun is yours ?

 

On a mission to convert VR gamers back to flat monitors ?

 

I feel like I just wasted $1000 on the Index because I was expecting a level of performance that was promoted by the pro-vr users here.

 

Turns out that they were either lying or personally oblivious to the actual negatives of VR.

 

I don't want other users to make the same mistake I did by trusting your biased and inaccurate perspective on DCS VR.

[remi]

Hi,

 

I'm trying to decide between different VR choices... it seems that reverb and index are amazing,but there is not stock! On the other hand we have the rift s, less performance but at least it is available.

 

So taking all these into account, I was thinking on acquiring a rift s for my current system (9700K, 2080Ti, 32GB), where the main goal is to play sims.

 

What do you think? Am I wrong? Is it better to wait?

 

You should definitely wait if you think you might be performing at the same level of a high resolution monitor.

 

Super high resolution VR is absolutely necessary for an equivalent experience, and current VR solutions are nowhere close to that.

[Supmua]

Hi,

 

I'm trying to decide between different VR choices... it seems that reverb and index are amazing,but there is not stock! On the other hand we have the rift s, less performance but at least it is available.

 

So taking all these into account, I was thinking on acquiring a rift s for my current system (9700K, 2080Ti, 32GB), where the main goal is to play sims.

 

What do you think? Am I wrong? Is it better to wait?

 

 

 

If you are just going to use it for DCS, either Index or Reverb or Rift S will be fine. Just don’t expect magical graphic fidelity compared to 2D screens. Go in with low expectations and you won’t be disappointed.

[nrosko]

I feel like I just wasted $1000 on the Index because I was expecting a level of performance that was promoted by the pro-vr users here.

 

Turns out that they were either lying or personally oblivious to the actual negatives of VR.

 

I don't want other users to make the same mistake I did by trusting your biased and inaccurate perspective on DCS VR.

 

lol how many of us play vr for a living?

[sk000tch]

I feel like I just wasted $1000 on the Index because I was expecting a level of performance that was promoted by the pro-vr users here.

 

Turns out that they were either lying or personally oblivious to the actual negatives of VR.

 

I don't want other users to make the same mistake I did by trusting your biased and inaccurate perspective on DCS VR.

 

Bro you are a one man anti -index crusader, maybe you got a bad one or something? I am bringing to think this heat issue is isolated to some units, as mine does not get hot

 

Also seems like you are suddenly anti -vr in general, not just ani-index, but very pro index prior to release... But now all about that 4k.

 

What changed? Did you have a HMD previously? What were your expectations coming in? Honestly I'm struggling to figure out your issue besides not being able to read mfd. If no vr experience the index should blow your mind, if you're used to previous gen, then I can under stand an argument that index is too expensive or something, but clarity and such relative to other hmd is substantially better, whether you think it's worth the cost difference is another matter.

[Svsmokey]

Let's just get a couple of things straight here. The Rift S is £450 and the full Index kit is just over £900 here, so it's 100% more expensive. Plus, for existing Vive/Vive Pro users (like myself), the Index without base stations and controller is £450, so the same price.

With the Vive/Vive Pro/Index, part of your money goes to a system, i.e. base stations and controllers that can (probably) be used in future VR headsets.

You can't relate price to quality anyway. Who's to make an objective judgement of the 'value' of a Rift S or Reverb or Index? Totally down to the individual user.

 

Much truth here , and to which i will add that an audio solution and a VR Cover will bring the cost of a Rift S up .

I do not have the controllers or base stations , but as it's use will only be for DCS , my soon-to-be Index will only cost me an extra $100 (bearing in mind the former) . It is worth that for the build quality alone , aside from fov , comfort and picture quality considerations .

[remi]

Bro you are a one man anti -index crusader, maybe you got a bad one or something? I am bringing to think this heat issue is isolated to some units, as mine does not get hot

 

Also seems like you are suddenly anti -vr in general, not just ani-index, but very pro index prior to release... But now all about that 4k.

 

What changed? Did you have a HMD previously? What were your expectations coming in? Honestly I'm struggling to figure out your issue besides not being able to read mfd. If no vr experience the index should blow your mind, if you're used to previous gen, then I can under stand an argument that index is too expensive or something, but clarity and such relative to other hmd is substantially better, whether you think it's worth the cost difference is another matter.

 

I knew about the issues with VR before like difficulty spotting and reading instruments and cockpit text, I thought the Valve Index addressed some of them with lower SDE and higher refresh rate, LCD instead of OLED, and canted screens, and better FOV.

 

 

Unfortunately, I bought the Index based on those assumptions, and I was flat out wrong. The problem with DCS VR will always be too low of screen resolution.

 

I learned my lesson: don't listen to the people who exclaim the wonders of VR for DCS, because they're biased and are too absorbed in their "you feel like you're there" gimmick to actually have a decent perspective on the whole thing.

 

 

If you're expecting to be able to perform at the same level in VR as using a 4k screen, you need to have that expectation severely pared down. It's not then close. Don't waste your time and money with VR at this point.

[Naruto]

DCS engine is not good for VR. They need to priorities the sim to run better to utilize the CPU and GPU more efficiently. Yes it looks pretty for a old engine but its not earth shattering in visual fidelity anymore. It's time for DCS to take some of that module money and port the sim to a engine that runs well with existing hardware to take the benefits of the newer hardware features. Until then, VR will be seriously lacking for DCS. BTW - Cockpits look good but the terrain really isn't impressive all that much anymore.

[nrosko]

I knew about the issues with VR before like difficulty spotting and reading instruments and cockpit text, I thought the Valve Index addressed some of them with lower SDE and higher refresh rate, LCD instead of OLED, and canted screens, and better FOV.

 

 

Unfortunately, I bought the Index based on those assumptions, and I was flat out wrong. The problem with DCS VR will always be too low of screen resolution.

 

I learned my lesson: don't listen to the people who exclaim the wonders of VR for DCS, because they're biased and are too absorbed in their "you feel like you're there" gimmick to actually have a decent perspective on the whole thing.

 

 

If you're expecting to be able to perform at the same level in VR as using a 4k screen, you need to have that expectation severely pared down. It's not then close. Don't waste your time and money with VR at this point.

 

I would find it hard to believe that anyone that uses vr would of told you the resolution would be like a 4K monitor or even a 1080 for that matter.

Its your own fault if you didn't research it properly, pointing the finger & accusing everybody else of being biased too absorbed in a gimmick of immersion just makes you sound like a schmuck tbh.

Just return it & enjoy your 4k.

[Zoomer]

I feel like I just wasted $1000 on the Index because I was expecting a level of performance that was promoted by the pro-vr users here.

 

Turns out that they were either lying or personally oblivious to the actual negatives of VR.

 

I don't want other users to make the same mistake I did by trusting your biased and inaccurate perspective on DCS VR.

 

You`re kidding right. I presume you are out of nappies at this stage, so time to man up and take responsibility for your own decisions. Besides that you can sell your Index and likely make a profit. VR is just not for you, give yourself another 10 yrs while the rest of us enjoy our VR experience. We`ll just have to manage w/o your vr input in the meantime.

[RealDCSpilot]

Reminds me of someone on reddit, ranting about the Vive Pro only having a FOV of 70 degrees. Poor guy didn't know about the lense distance setting. Seems to be the same case here, a lot of knobs and switches but no idea what to do with them.

[Gman109]

Remi, I'll take that Index off your hands if you're looking to sell/trade it. I want to compare it to the Rift S and Reverb side by side myself.

 

 

If you're really that into 4k, I'd be willing to trade you a real 4k gaming lcd (not a crappy 4k tv being used for gaming), either a PG27UQ or X27, both are 1000 nit 144hz Gsync gaming LCDs, and still close to $2000 USD after tax/shipping new. I have one of each available and both are in open box/like new condition, with only a few hours of run time on them, and the 3 year factory full coverage warranty available for registry. I'd be willing to trade straight up for your Index, or pay cash$ instead if you prefer (and want to stick with crappy 4k 60hz tv gaming).

[de.Impact]

Can somebody post some good "through the lens" pictures from the hornet cockpit ?

And maybe some comparison pictures with another headset ?

[Secoda]

This comparison was posted on Reddit. It includes sub pixels and is per eye. IMO it puts thing in perspective a bit. The FOV is just claimed. There is still quite a clarity gap until the Acer Ojo ConceptD shows up with the Reverb.

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Secoda

[nrosko]

This comparison was posted on Reddit. It includes sub pixels and is per eye. IMO it puts thing in perspective a bit. The FOV is just claimed.

 

 

This looks incorrect to me, you don't lose any ppd with the increased fov in the Index.

[imacken]

This looks incorrect to me, you don't lose any ppd with the increased fov in the Index.

 

Yep, seen this before. There is no specified FOV for these headsets. Valve certainly don't specify 130 for the Index. It depends on the distance the lens is set to from your eyes. Similar to the VP.

[Supmua]

Valve Index Hands On

 

It’s definitely not 130 degree, more like 110-115 when I last measured it within the FOV Test Environment in SteamVR Home. My Vive Pro was around 100ish when I pushed it close to my eyes. Take manufacture reports with a grain of salt, they likely use ideal conditions that isn’t possible in real world usage—or outright fudged the numbers to make it look good.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Supmua

[de.Impact]

Im looking for such pictures, but in a hornet cockpit, with MFDs visible and from the usual head resting position. (from:

)

 

 

[Supmua]

Valve Index Hands On

 

.Impact;3966161']Im looking for such pictures, but in a hornet cockpit, with MFDs visible and from the usual head resting position. (from:

)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I haven’t tried the Reverb, but above picture containing texts is why I said this is the first headset that I wouldn’t mind web browsing or watching movies from within—especially with edge to edge clarity that this picture didn’t show.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Supmua

[Supmua]

Ok just did some night flying with the A-10C (Instant Action mission). The black level is pretty similar to my IPS monitor, not pitched black like OLED screen, it's sort of very dark gray and if you're used to seeing IPS glow on your monitor with black background you'll know what I mean. There was no color banding that I observed and this was at my typical gamma setting of 1.8 in VR. To push things to the extreme, I cranked up the gamma level to 3.5 and still observed no color banding. At this gamma, it was like a cheat mode since the ground also lights up a bit and the clouds become quite visible (have to remember this lol). So yeah, it's not as pretty as OLED but doable and I didn't notice any godrays during my flight.

 

P.S.

The sweet spots on this headset is a bit different from what I'm used to. For my facial profile, to get the absolute best clarity, the lower edge of the headset has to be at the level of my upper gum which is a bit uncomfortable since it is pushing on my cheeks but I found that tilting away the headset a bit will relieve some of the pressure while retaining the sharpness.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Supmua

[remi]

Remi, I'll take that Index off your hands if you're looking to sell/trade it. I want to compare it to the Rift S and Reverb side by side myself.

 

 

If you're really that into 4k, I'd be willing to trade you a real 4k gaming lcd (not a crappy 4k tv being used for gaming), either a PG27UQ or X27, both are 1000 nit 144hz Gsync gaming LCDs, and still close to $2000 USD after tax/shipping new. I have one of each available and both are in open box/like new condition, with only a few hours of run time on them, and the 3 year factory full coverage warranty available for registry. I'd be willing to trade straight up for your Index, or pay cash$ instead if you prefer (and want to stick with crappy 4k 60hz tv gaming).

 

I already use the PG27UQ as my primary display, I got it for $1600 new (discount + employee discount). I consider that far superior in DCS experience than the Index. I guess I'll plan on keeping the Index for non-DCS games.

 

You'd be better served going with the Varjo, tbh.

[remi]

I would find it hard to believe that anyone that uses vr would of told you the resolution would be like a 4K monitor or even a 1080 for that matter.

Its your own fault if you didn't research it properly, pointing the finger & accusing everybody else of being biased too absorbed in a gimmick of immersion just makes you sound like a schmuck tbh.

Just return it & enjoy your 4k.

 

I did research it, but VR is subjective, and the experiences of users is important in the overall consideration.

 

The unfortunate thing is the cultist echo-chamber here keeps extolling the virtues of current gen VR, however my actual experience shows that they were clearly lying, and still fall-back on the tiresome "it feels like you're in the cockpit!" Yeah, it feels like you're legally-blind in a cockpit with diminished combat effectiveness.

 

Frankly, they need to tone down their evangelism for an expensive device which does not deliver on their description.

[Svsmokey]

Acknowledging that the VR experience is subjective , and then accusing others of lying , and being cultist . Irrational and ill-founded opinions are of no value to me - blocked .

[dburne]

I did research it, but VR is subjective, and the experiences of users is important in the overall consideration.

 

The unfortunate thing is the cultist echo-chamber here keeps extolling the virtues of current gen VR, however my actual experience shows that they were clearly lying, and still fall-back on the tiresome "it feels like you're in the cockpit!" Yeah, it feels like you're legally-blind in a cockpit with diminished combat effectiveness.

 

Frankly, they need to tone down their evangelism for an expensive device which does not deliver on their description.

 

I listened to that "Echo Chamber" back in Jan 2017 and ordered the Rift CV1, and am so glad I did.

Have not gamed on the monitor since, and now that I have Rift S I am even more pleased.

And I game with it daily.

 

Note: The above is not a lie, but reflects my actual experience in VR. Yes it is subjective and not for everyone, but most that try it seem to be pretty happy with it.