What do I do with the Tomcat?

[obious]

Let me preface this by saying nothing I'm writing below is a result of HB's implementation of the F-14; I think they did a wonderful job on almost every aspect (weathered cockpit aside ;) ) and I love that we finally have a 'cat to roam the skies in DCS with.

 

After building a VR pit for use almost exclusively with the F-18, I'm having a lot of fun in that bird. This is even more the case with the introduction of the TPOD a few weeks ago. However, I must confess I'm a little disappointed with the F-14 because I just don't know what to do with her.

 

Sure, I can fly around a bit, fly off the deck of a carrier and catch some traps (admittedly I need a lot of time to improve), get in a knife fight with a few F-16s and F-18s etc but what else aside from that?

 

I think I'm comfortable flying an aircraft with avionics that I can interact with myself (I'm missing the MFDs you'd find in the F-14D I gusss) but having said that, I get a blast from flying the F-5E down low of the ranges of Nevada; why don't I feel the same in the Tomcat? After spending some time thinking about it the past couple of nights, I think its down to several things:

 

1) I can't 'yank and bank' - unlike in other aircraft (again, F-18 and F-5E) I can't just yank the stick and hold it there, in the 'cat I'm constantly looking at the AOA indicator and looking for violent vibrations in the air frame for indications as to when I'm getting into trouble.

2) The 'HUD' - I get that its been replicated authentically and the replication has only mimicked constraints of the time (ie low refresh rate, lack of 'useful' information that you'd in many modern HUDs) but I still not able to enjoy it.

 

 

I appreciate a lot of what I'm writing may be unpopular but its just the way I feel and to be honest, I'm not sure what kind of response/reply I'm after - just thought I'd put my thoughts down on paper.

 

Cheers!

[Victory205]

This is the best affirmation of the superiority of the Heatblur flight model that I’ve ever read.

 

Thank you!

[obious]

This is the best affirmation of the superiority of the Heatblur flight model that I’ve ever read.

 

Thank you!

 

You’re probably right in the sense that I’d implicitly praising HB and the FM they created but tbf, I think it is warranted praise :)

[Bearfoot]

This is the best affirmation of the superiority of the Heatblur flight model that I’ve ever read.

 

Thank you!

 

Agreed! And thank Heatblur and their various consultants/SME's for getting it right!

[Whiskey11]

Let me preface this by saying nothing I'm writing below is a result of HB's implementation of the F-14; I think they did a wonderful job on almost every aspect (weathered cockpit aside ;) ) and I love that we finally have a 'cat to roam the skies in DCS with.

 

After building a VR pit for use almost exclusively with the F-18, I'm having a lot of fun in that bird. This is even more the case with the introduction of the TPOD a few weeks ago. However, I must confess I'm a little disappointed with the F-14 because I just don't know what to do with her.

 

Sure, I can fly around a bit, fly off the deck of a carrier and catch some traps (admittedly I need a lot of time to improve), get in a knife fight with a few F-16s and F-18s etc but what else aside from that?

 

I think I'm comfortable flying an aircraft with avionics that I can interact with myself (I'm missing the MFDs you'd find in the F-14D I gusss) but having said that, I get a blast from flying the F-5E down low of the ranges of Nevada; why don't I feel the same in the Tomcat? After spending some time thinking about it the past couple of nights, I think its down to several things:

 

1) I can't 'yank and bank' - unlike in other aircraft (again, F-18 and F-5E) I can't just yank the stick and hold it there, in the 'cat I'm constantly looking at the AOA indicator and looking for violent vibrations in the air frame for indications as to when I'm getting into trouble.

2) The 'HUD' - I get that its been replicated authentically and the replication has only mimicked constraints of the time (ie low refresh rate, lack of 'useful' information that you'd in many modern HUDs) but I still not able to enjoy it.

 

 

I appreciate a lot of what I'm writing may be unpopular but its just the way I feel and to be honest, I'm not sure what kind of response/reply I'm after - just thought I'd put my thoughts down on paper.

 

Cheers!

 

The beauty of the Tomcat is in the challenge of flying it well... if you want something to challenge you, jump onto one of the various Guns Only dogfight server and practice combat maneuvering with her... she is VERY rewarding to fly well. But that said, she has a lot of multirole capability too... she can carry GBU's, she carries dumb bombs, she carries the longest range missile in the game, she carries rockets... use them! Sure, it's not as "engaging" as sitting at 25000 feet with a LITENING pod and dropping GBU's on target from the cockpit, but it certainly is engaging in other ways!

[Jester2138]

1) I can't 'yank and bank' - unlike in other aircraft (again, F-18 and F-5E) I can't just yank the stick and hold it there, in the 'cat I'm constantly looking at the AOA indicator and looking for violent vibrations in the air frame for indications as to when I'm getting into trouble.

2) The 'HUD' - I get that its been replicated authentically and the replication has only mimicked constraints of the time (ie low refresh rate, lack of 'useful' information that you'd in many modern HUDs) but I still not able to enjoy it.

 

Sounds like you just want something easier. No shame in that.

 

The extra work and skill that flying the Tomcat well takes is exactly why I enjoy it.

[javelina1]

Agreed! And thank Heatblur and their various consultants/SME's for getting it right!

Completely agree! Love the Turkey. It's the mod that speaks to you when flying her. You can feel those shudders starting to creep up in your AoA.... :thumbup:

[JamesRothwell]

There is lots to do with the Tomcat, fit the LANTIRN and help out some ground units with a precision strike on some bunkers or perhaps tanks. Help with a SEAD mission by flying towards the enemy SAM site and drop some TALDs (once ED fix it) in their direction. Try some long range ship defense with the Phoenix missiles, keeping the enemy at bay away from the precious ships.

 

I find that the Tomcat in SP is pretty boring, but in MP especially with a real RIO it's an amazing experience. It certainly has a place on the battlefield, especially if you team up with other people with different aircraft, go along with a couple of Hornets and protect them from any enemy aircraft while they use the TPOD and take out some ground targets etc.

[QuiGon]

What to do with the Tomcat?

Explore the back seat and its toys!

 

I've spend 99.7% of my time in the DCS Tomcat (150+ h) on the backseat. The weapon system, the radar, the INS and the LANTIRN are so much fun to play with, that I still have no desire to really try out the front seat!

Edited September 9, 2019 by QuiGon

[Toxic]

Kill shit with it.

[Wavehopper]

I really don’t get it. The Tomcat is s pure joy to fly compared to the sterile FBW’s we’ve had so far. I have flown nothing other than the Tomcat since it released as the Hornet and its ilk are so boring to fly.

 

I actually laughed when I flew a quick case 1 in the Hornet recently. Stare at the HUD, perfect approach, almost fall asleep. That and the incessant chirping and moaning of the computer systems “biddly beep, bwarp, bwarp, pull up, pull up”. Shaddup!

 

The Tomcat doesn’t moan at you, it politely asks you to stop what you’re doing by buffeting.

 

I’ve spent 400+ hours trapping, patrolling and perfecting my airmanship and loved every second of it. But then I’m also a Huey fan so maybe that’s why.

[Mule]

I completely get what the OP is saying. For me dropping GBU's with the LANTIRN in the back seat in a high threat environment is just the best. Then trying to land back on the carrier is such a good challenge.

 

The challenge of flying it right in itself brings immense satisfaction to me.

[Mongoose556]

The Tomcat really comes alive with a human RIO, get someone to fly with, join one of the DCS discords, Hoggit or Spudknocker Wingman Finder. Learn the RIO cockpit and how to use the radar so you can fly both roles when available.

 

The back seat is where the magic happens! I'm primarily a pilot but I started to learn the back seat and it's helped me understand what is happening on the radar.

 

Also practice CCIP bombing and throwing TALD at air defences.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Mongoose556

[Tom Kazansky]

Explore the back seat and its toys!

 

I've spend 99.7% of my time in the DCS Tomcat (150+ h) in the backseat. The weapon system, the radar, the INS and the LANTIRN are so much fun to play with, I still have no desire to really try out the front seat!

 

 

This!

 

 

btw. a lot is discussed and wanted for Jester AI. With a better Iceman AI backseating in SP could be a fantastic thing with the Cat. Especially while weapon deployment.

[Larkis]

Give the bird some time. In the first times it was a shock for me, flying the Cat without MFD’s, without Speed and Altitude in the HUD. But it grows to you.

 

Thats the point i love on the Tomcat:

1. Its has the „Flow“. Changing Tacan, radio and Data-Links with the Jester Menu are an so easy thing to do. Also prepare Ground Weaponry and Navigation. In the F18 (using a oculus rift) i always need to remember on which page is which option, what are Frequencies, Datalink Numbers, Tacans ect. ect. Sometimes it feels more like being an IT-Guy in the office, zooming in on the MFD and click on it. The Cat ist more about flying then programming.

2. Its a blast in VR! In the Hornet i allways need to zoom to the MFDs. In the Tomcat not. Maybe when i slave the TID on my bottom monitor but mostly i just look on the VID and position of the gauges. Also you have Jesters Eagly-Eyes, which compensate your VR-LoWRes Eyes. :D

3. Sitational Awarness. Slaving the TID and tell Jester to put it on Ground-Mode give you a very good view what happens around you and the direction planes are flying. Jesters give calls if he spot planes, give position updates about enemys during a dogfight, calls missiles and evasive maneuvers, when missiles closing in.

4. It flys great. Flying the F18 is a little bit like Ace Combat. Pointing the Indicator to the point where you want to fly and done. Thanks Fly-by-wire. In the Tomcat you fly yourself and you FEEL it. It need some time, but when you first get the perfect trim, it feels great. For me flying is much more fun then in the F18.

5. Phoenix Missiles. Enough Said. Fighting 6 Targets at the same time without an active lock is still fun, even after 100 times.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Larkis

[obious]

After reading the responses here, I think I'd agree with the majority of whats been said.

 

I play almost exclusively in SP which I think it leading somewhat to the frustration and perhaps boredom I'm experiencing. I'm going to to give MP a go soon, will probably try and find a wingman/RIO to fly with which will hopefully increase my enjoyment levels.

 

Saying that however, I did give the Fox Two mission a go (Sidewinders only) last night and without being so heavy handed with the controls, I did have a lot of fun.

 

I ordered the VFX grip from Virpil when it was available for pre-order and I'm hoping to pair it with their new T50CM2 base as I'm currently using their WarBRD with a 10cm extension and finding the lack of resistance/tension rather annoying with a jet that I can't 'yank and bank'. Hopefully both of these when they arrive will further add to my enjoyment

 

Thanks all!

[QuiGon]

I play almost exclusively in SP which I think it leading somewhat to the frustration and perhaps boredom I'm experiencing. I'm going to to give MP a go soon, will probably try and find a wingman/RIO to fly with which will hopefully increase my enjoyment levels.

:thumbup:

[Pikey]

SP is limited. Once you add the infrastructure of your own flights comms, AIC, checkin, package comms, ATC done by very meticulous real world operators and a jabbering RIO who drank too much fizzy juice, which is essentially three radios as far as the sim is concerned, things are very different indeed. Just add your 50nm intercept with 'time dilation' and people getting stepped on all the time and your brain begins to yearn for what the peaceful serenity of Single Player gives you.

 

The complexity of the workflow is like a moth to a flame for me, because I know I couldn't master it as just a hobby, so the Tomcat suits me as almost endless content, but not everyone wants that experience. You have to set your own goals in a DCS module, if you are happy with knowing enough for your own goals, or you learn it like a beta tester with 8 arms and nine lifetimes.

 

 

 

Option 3 might be to dive into multiplayer, use the module as a mere tool and study the processes from the current day (that CNATRA are kind enough to make public) and piece together what the same documents might have looked like 30-40 years ago when the Tomcat was cutting edge. And if you are happy with the result, perhaps see if you can integrate a modern SOP with an old plane that also fits with an established virtual squadrons other SOP's (including USAF practices). Then if happy with that, write the virtual pilot and RIO's training plans. Then maybe one day I'll help get the 132nd's Tomcat sqn up and running and have time to fly! :)

 

 

 

After reading the responses here, I think I'd agree with the majority of whats been said.

 

I play almost exclusively in SP which I think it leading somewhat to the frustration and perhaps boredom I'm experiencing. I'm going to to give MP a go soon, will probably try and find a wingman/RIO to fly with which will hopefully increase my enjoyment levels.

 

Saying that however, I did give the Fox Two mission a go (Sidewinders only) last night and without being so heavy handed with the controls, I did have a lot of fun.

 

I ordered the VFX grip from Virpil when it was available for pre-order and I'm hoping to pair it with their new T50CM2 base as I'm currently using their WarBRD with a 10cm extension and finding the lack of resistance/tension rather annoying with a jet that I can't 'yank and bank'. Hopefully both of these when they arrive will further add to my enjoyment

 

Thanks all!

[Defrabo]

Is this the kind of banking you mean? Or am I missing something too?

I just started on You Tube as The Horror....forgive the poor editing..just learning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh7GedSjox8

[TheFlyGuy]

I had a lot of fun with the Tomcat while learning all the avionics and weapon systems, and I set up several small training scenarios with the mission editor in DCS to practice dogfights, ground attacks with different weapon systems, air to air refuelling, carrier operations and so on. But I agree that it would be the right time now for one or another campaign since only practicing now gets a little bit boring after all these months of (offline) training. I must say that personally I'm not so much into online playing, because I like to pause the simulation whenever I need to, and often simply don'thave the time to spend hours in a single online session. So please Heatblur give us the campaigns you promised us for the F14.

[draconus]

It's still EA and the guys are already bored... unbelievable.

Do you really excel in Case I-III, landings, AAR, dogfight, BVR, formation, A2G?

There are at least two good campaigns and dozens of missions to choose from in SP!

[TheFlyGuy]

TWO campaigns? Whats the second one besides "Cage the Bear""?

[draconus]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=247793

[AcroGimp]

I've only just started the Red Flag campaign (first 3 sorties down) but it is great so far, really enjoying it.

 

There are several converted missions as well like Sedlo's Red Flag strike mission, really any mission where Hornet and Tomcat share weapons overlap you can convert it to fly in the Cat.

 

And like Draconus says, mastering Case II and Case III departures and recoveries is a massive undertaking since you don't have HAL 9000 interpreting and smoothing out all of your control inputs.

 

Tomcat is hands down the best module in the eco-system IMO.

 

DISCO

[fl0w]

It's still EA and the guys are already bored... unbelievable.

Do you really excel in Case I-III, landings, AAR, dogfight, BVR, formation, A2G?

There are at least two good campaigns and dozens of missions to choose from in SP!

 

It's EA because it is missing campaigns, a TARPS pod and the Forrestal/AI. The only parts to the module that would give it that "EA" factor is the TARPS pod itself. There is some missing anti-jamming features and datalink, but that is gone by the mercy of ED themselves. Early Access is a vague term that is hinted on the fronts of bugginess and systems completion.