Which direciton? VR or TrackIR+HOTAS for A10C?

[wagdog]

Hey all,

 

After a long layoff from DCS, I'm getting back into it. During my previous run, I had bought a Saitek X52 (non pro). I still have it and it still works.

 

I now have a new system that can run DCS flawlessly and quickly with high graphics settings and plenty of SSD space.

 

I'd like to up my game a bit. Back when I last played, the TrackIR and Trustmaster Warthog HOTAS was the top rig.

 

I have enough money saved to get that setup.

 

But, I'm wondering if I should just make the jump to VR? The new Hive Cosmos that shipped today looks like it might be a winner. Maybe I should just skip the Warthog HOTAS and TrackIR and make the move VR? The VR configuration would add value to other games as well, so it has that going for it. I looked at a youtube video with my phone and a VR (cheap) goggles - it looked pretty cool.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited October 4, 2019 by wagdog

[lobo]

Gave away my TrackIR recently. It was in drawer gathering dust. Have been using a Rift CV1 since they came out and have not looked back. imo, like going from a horse and buggy to a Ferrari.

 

FWIW, I know nothing of the Cosmos, but after simulating in VR there is no going back for me.

 

One has to decide if they desire 4k clarity, viewing the simulated world through a window, or lower resolution combined with utter and complete immersion of actually sitting in the simulated cockpit. If it is the latter, it is VR for certain.

 

Now, I'm off to the Persian Gulf. There is an island near the Straight of Hormuz which has been over run by baddies, I have the keys to an A-10C loaded with LGB's and been given the number a JTAC with eyes on the whole mess. He wants some stuff to blow up. And I aim to oblige! ;)

Edited October 4, 2019 by lobo**

[Yurgon]

Maybe I should just skip the Warthog HOTAS and TrackIR and make the move VR?

 

I'm still on TrackIR and have never used VR yet, so can't comment on that. But I hear it's apparently pretty fantastic, according to most.

 

Keep in mind though that the A-10C is pretty heavy on mashing all kinds of buttons. Input devices like the Thrustmaster MFD frames don't go well with VR, so a VR pilot probably would have to push the buttons inside the virtual pit for the time being.

 

In any case, VR or not, you still need to control yaw, pitch, roll and thrust, and a HOTAS setup (plus rudder pedals) is perfect for that. The TM Warthog is a great product, but it does have its flaws. Whether you pick the TM Warthog or one of the competitors, VR is no replacement for a good HOTAS, and I'm sure the VR experience will benefit from a good stick and throttle just as much as a 2D screen.

[VampireNZ]

I have the TM MFD frames mounted in front of me and use VR and they work perfectly. A little muscle memory and some positional aids (I have little squares of foam on inside of each side adjacent the middle button on each row to orient my hand/finger).

 

I also have an ICP keypad setup in front of me in the middle also that I use in VR, along with 2 button boxes on each side of the MFD's - all a piece of cake to use in VR.

 

 

Once you try VR you won't want to fly any other way - just IMHO.

[Woody01]

Yes I would have to agree. I only used TrackIR for a relatively short time before trying VR and yes there was no going back, its so cool. But I would have to agree with Yurgon a good HOTAS is vital. I already had the TM Warthog so it was straight to VR for me. The TrackIR is handy sometimes if I'm testing things in the Mission Editor but that's it. Also what Vampire said, Its not too bad finding things outside of VR, the keyboard is muscle memory for me and I have most things I need setup on the HOTAS. Its drinking beer and opening new bottles where the real skill comes in though :D

[Eddie]

VR is great, but for the A-10C with the current cockpit model, the monitor is far superior. And that's before you get in to spotting issues with VR and the fact it becomes quite difficult to look at things like notes, line up cards, checklists, airfield charts, etc. while wearing the headset.

[GTO]

What Eddie said.

 

The experience of DCS in VR is amazing, actually sitting in the cockpit takes it to a whole other level but the reduced graphics quality let it down. Go for the TM Warthog, you won't regret it.

[falcon_120]

VR all the way. Cant go back to 2D.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

[cptmrcalm]

Theres no doubt a good HOTAS is essential. Pedals too. Cougar screens etc etc.. they are all fantastic. Expensive but fantastic.

 

 

VR is expensive. Probably too expensive for most. It puts extra strain on your system. You have to put a big bulky headset on. You can get face ache if you wear it for 4 hours or so.

If you have the vive or index you have to put base stations up. Extra wires.

 

 

Oh the hassle.

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

But MY GOD! Once you are in VR its game over for 2d screens. It really is on another level.

 

 

The resolution is a drop and yes the clarity is not quite as sharp as a monitor - but honeslty? we really are talking in technical terms here. The reality is that its certainly good enough! I never fly thinking: "Pity i cant see what vehicle that is on that road at 20,000ft."

 

 

 

Using an index and I couldnt go back to 2d screens for flight sims.

[draconus]

@wagdog: Do I understand correctly that you don't have any HOTAS at the time? Then there's no doubt HOTAS is your first choice. You can live with some cheaper one for starters and still get VR but there is no flying without HOTAS!

[cptmrcalm]

oh yeah. if you have nothing - you get the hotas.

 

 

 

But you see.... he still has his x52.

[draconus]

my bad, I distorted the poll results :)

[Rocho]

I play using an old X-52 (no Pro), Oculus CV1 and VoiceBot and, despite the low resolution, I'll never play in 2D again.

[Yurgon]

I have the TM MFD frames mounted in front of me and use VR and they work perfectly. [...]

 

That sounds pretty good, thanks for the insight! :thumbup:

 

Its drinking beer and opening new bottles where the real skill comes in though :D

 

:lol:

[lobo]

VR is great, but for the A-10C with the current cockpit model, the monitor is far superior. And that's before you get in to spotting issues with VR and the fact it becomes quite difficult to look at things like notes, line up cards, checklists, airfield charts, etc. while wearing the headset.

 

I'm quite happy using kneeboard (custom checklist added) in VR. Works great for me.

[wagdog]

@wagdog: Do I understand correctly that you don't have any HOTAS at the time? Then there's no doubt HOTAS is your first choice. You can live with some cheaper one for starters and still get VR but there is no flying without HOTAS!

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I have an older X52(non-Pro). It’s not great, but it does work. I recently got a decent PC and 35” curved monitor.

 

That’s why I’m asking; I want something better for my control setup. But, I don’t want to dump my money into the TM HOTAS / TrackIR if a decent VR setup is going to be a better next step.

Edited October 4, 2019 by wagdog

[eaglecash867]

I'm quite happy using kneeboard (custom checklist added) in VR. Works great for me.

 

Yup. Electronic kneeboards work great in VR. The HP Reverb has almost eliminated the spotting issues too, along with ironically giving a major performance boost over my CV1. Don't need to crank DCS PD up above 1.0, I can run 4X MSAA now, and I no longer have the ghosting when looking to the side at buildings and other ground objects.

 

Wagdog, you should still definitely keep a TM Warthog HOTAS on your list though. Nothing better than having all of the HOTAS functions of the A-10C in the same place as they are in the real thing.

Edited October 4, 2019 by eaglecash867

[VampireNZ]

Also just a quick response to the few who have mentioned how hard it is to spot stuff in VR. A new Zoom function has just been released in DCS called Spyglass Zoom which pretty much doubles (or more?) the zoom of the 'normal' VR Zoom. In the UI Layer section.

 

So yea more than enough to see stuff at 20,000' :thumbup:

[DerFangzahn]

You need a good hotas with pedals before you can start with VR. So TNWH.

[lobo]

Also just a quick response to the few who have mentioned how hard it is to spot stuff in VR. A new Zoom function has just been released in DCS called Spyglass Zoom which pretty much doubles (or more?) the zoom of the 'normal' VR Zoom. In the UI Layer section.

 

So yea more than enough to see stuff at 20,000' :thumbup:

 

+1. Control setting under main, UIlayer spyglass zoom. Use a keybind.

[wagdog]

Well, I got a chance to try my son's Vive Cosmos VR setup with DCS this afternoon. After downloading/installing/setting up the Cosmos on my machine, I'm pretty sure my computer weighed more.

 

Anyway, wow, that was awesome. I think I experienced a touch of motion sickness while flying - briefly. I wasn't able to use Cosmos VR handstick things to fly and push buttons in the cockpit, rather I flew with the X52 and just used the VR headset for viewing. I did a take off and landing and it was soooo much easier to just look around and see the surrounding area and the runway.

 

Definitely need a HOTAS to fly still, and you need to have the controls memorized by touch.

 

Was it awesome enough to make me want to buy one? I actually don't think so. I really think having IR head tracking and my 35" curved monitor might be a better overall experience for *me*. I'm still at the stage where I need to follow written instructions to successfully attack any targets in DCS and having that second monitor with a guide open is kind of critical for me.

 

So I think I'll go in the direction of getting a TrackIR, and then consider upgrading to a TM Warthog.

 

EDIT: Also, if you want to try VR on the cheap, there is a Steam VR thing called iVRy - it uses your phone and a cheap VR headset (you can often get them for $1 on clearance at walmart). It's not great with DCS, in fact, I'd say it's not even good for DCS, but it does work).

Edited October 7, 2019 by wagdog

[Nightstalker]

I haven’t even tried VR yet. I’m not going to knock the obvious immersion factor but after upgrading my system to the best I could get and now running DCS in 2k with everything maxed, I couldn’t imagine dropping from over 100 frames per second back to 40 with settings turned down, poor clarity and a screen door affect! A proper HOTAS is a must. I would spend the extra and get a Virpil setup instead.

 

I love TrackIR. I’ve been using it for years. No sweaty head or neck aches.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Nightstalker

[cercata]

If you get a Rift S instead of a Cosmos, maybe you can have VR & Warthog

 

The resolution is not that different, and Matt Wagner loved the Rift S, wso it will have good support for DCS ;)

[Deano87]

To add to what’s already been said in this thread. VR makes a good HOTAS even more important, trying to go VR without having a good control setup is going to be a nightmare. Get your controls sorted out first so you don’t need to reach for the keyboard and then you can think about VR.

 

VR however is absolutely awesome. Imho.

[Deano87]

If you get a Rift S instead of a Cosmos, maybe you can have VR & Warthog

 

The resolution is not that different, and Matt Wagner loved the Rift S, wso it will have good support for DCS ;)

 

Yup Rift S is a great headset providing your eyes work with the limited IPD range.