announced DCS MiG-29A

[Hatman335]

17 hours ago, GGTharos said:

It isn't schizophrenia (paranoia at worst) and I'm not convinced that you're qualified to judge people's fears for their safety in a situation that you aren't experiencing.

The first assumption is that ED could use German or other European data to model the jet. Now let's look at the facts. US pilots have been on exchange tours with the Luftwaffe after the German reunification. NATO allies like Poland and Hungary has operated the type.US pilots also did DACT against Hungarian Migs. Explain to me, what 'secrets' would a full fidelity module allow the US and NATO uncover through DCS that they couldn't uncover using the real jets?

[draconus]

On 10/4/2023 at 11:48 AM, Hatman335 said:

Explain to me, what 'secrets' would a full fidelity module allow the US and NATO uncover through DCS that they couldn't uncover using the real jets?

It doesn't have to make sense for the government there. If any ED employee or company asset has anything to do with Russia - they are in danger, that's all there is to it.

Edited October 5, 2023 by draconus

[Hatman335]

7 minutes ago, draconus said:

It doesn't have to make sense for the government there. If any ED employee or company asset has anything still to do with Russia - they are in danger, that's all there is to it.

That's not what my argument is about. Tavo89 pointed out that this restriction on the side of the Russian government is irrational and has no practical purpose. GGTharos retorted with saying that Tavo89 (and by extension, anyone from here) isn't qualified to judge how the Russian government is worried about their safety. 

I strongly disagree with this, the argument about the aircraft being a completely open book to NATO is a very good point that demonstrates that them worrying about their safety regarding a video game module is an irrational position since the US has had access to the actual aircraft and they have been extensively used in NATO countries. The argument that you're responding to has nothing to do with ED and their decisions, only with the decisions and attitude of the Russian government.

[Hiob]

1 minute ago, Hatman335 said:

That's not what my argument is about. Tavo89 pointed out that this restriction on the side of the Russian government is irrational and has no practical purpose. GGTharos retorted with saying that Tavo89 (and by extension, anyone from here) isn't qualified to judge how the Russian government is worried about their safety. 

I strongly disagree with this, the argument about the aircraft being a completely open book to NATO is a very good point that demonstrates that them worrying about their safety regarding a video game module is an irrational position since the US has had access to the actual aircraft and they have been extensively used in NATO countries. The argument that you're responding to has nothing to do with ED and their decisions, only with the decisions and attitude of the Russian government.

Yeah, but it is rather pointless to worry about the reasoning of the russian government - be it rational or not from the outside view. For all practical purposes it is simply a fact (a force of nature so to say). And that is really where the whole commotion should end. Everything beyond that is wasted energy.

[Hatman335]

28 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Yeah, but it is rather pointless to worry about the reasoning of the russian government - be it rational or not from the outside view. For all practical purposes it is simply a fact (a force of nature so to say). And that is really where the whole commotion should end. Everything beyond that is wasted energy.

Sure, but the current discussion is about why someone would think that the Russian government is in fact rational in this instance.

[Hiob]

9 minutes ago, Hatman335 said:

Sure, but the current discussion is about why someone would think that the Russian government is in fact rational in this instance.

Okay...... I don't know if that is any better, really. 

[draconus]

2 hours ago, Hatman335 said:

GGTharos retorted with saying that Tavo89 (and by extension, anyone from here) isn't qualified to judge how the Russian government is worried about their safety.

I'm pretty sure GGTharos was concerned about ED's safety, not Russian government. Russia simply doesn't care about some game development, otoh they do care about anyone looking for any of their military docs and knowledge.

Edited October 4, 2023 by draconus

[GGTharos]

^^^^   Correct.   They (the Russian government) are not a rational actor and ED is acting accordingly.

[Dragon1-1]

I'm pretty sure that if they knew Russian government couldn't touch them, they wouldn't give a big rat's ass about what they want. Russia is a pariah anyway, they have no capability to persecute anyone outside their borders, save for Belarus and maybe North Korea (and in occupied Ukraine, of course). OTOH, they gleefully abuse their ability to persecute people inside their borders, and in occupied Ukraine. If ED devs have anyone they're close to who lives in Russia, it's understandable they don't want to piss them off.

At least the forums are definitely under Russian law, because then, the Ukrainian flag would've been taboo, like it is on the other WWII sim's forum. Since we can have it in avatars, and we can call the conflict a war, at least that bit must be somewhere in the West (probably Switzerland).

Hopefully a 3rd party arrives to make it, maybe a German team, and with focus on Luftwaffe MiGs. In fact, it'd be wonderful to have someone like True Grit make it, after they're done with the Eurofighter.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Dragon1-1

[okopanja]

 

FUD.

[Wizard_03]

The irony of "protecting" information about an aircraft that is now actively being used against them in a war that they started is absolutely hilarious to me.

The safety of people like the devs at ED is not a joke to me at all. 

[Hiob]

2 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

The irony of "protecting" information about an aircraft that is now actively being used against them in a war that they started is absolutely hilarious to me.

The safety of people like the devs at ED is not a joke to me at all. 

They don't "protect" anything here. They are simply acting according to a principle and don't care to make exceptions. It's much easier to enforce a certain principle if you don't introduce multitudes of "if"s and "then"s and exceptions.

[Wizard_03]

4 minutes ago, Hiob said:

They don't "protect" anything here. They are simply acting according to a principle and don't care to make exceptions. It's much easier to enforce a certain principle if you don't introduce multitudes of "if"s and "then"s and exceptions.

I think they just like to make laws and control absolutely everything they can get away with. 

[GGTharos]

The law simply becomes a tool to persecute anyone they deem worthy of persecuting.  The reasons are largely irrelevant and don't need to be rational.

[SharkWizard]

On 10/4/2023 at 9:11 PM, Wizard_03 said:

The irony of "protecting" information about an aircraft that is now actively being used against them in a war that they started is absolutely hilarious to me.

The safety of people like the devs at ED is not a joke to me at all. 

This is actually probably the biggest problem for ED at the moment.

They cannot be seen to making a training tool for someone using MiG-29s against them.

 

But this sort of beaurocratic law-fare against the folk is not unique to the Federation though. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by SharkWizard

[Tavo89]

Injured susceptibilities aside, I hope that the project will be taken up again at some point.  

[Nodak]

It's not the Russian Government who was the first to come for somebody over transfer of sensitive data associated with games, Russians certainly are not the only worry.  

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, Nodak said:

It's not the Russian Government who was the first to come for somebody over transfer of sensitive data associated with games, Russians certainly are not the only worry.  

I mean, literally former warpac nations are part of NATO now, literally there is nothing sekrit or exploitable on the 9.12 Mig29. The west literally knows everything and have for decades. So the whole dokumints thing is mostly bunk. You can literally goto public libraries in former warpac countries and find detailed docs for this jet, everything from maintenance to flight manuals etc. I know a guy raiding them for mig23 docs as we speak. 

But Russia is Russia, and logic doesn't necessarily apply. 

 

 

 

On 10/3/2023 at 6:11 PM, Wizard_03 said:

I wouldn't be surprised, since Lots of modern weapons made in Russia turn out to be so powerful and effective that no one, not even the Russians can buy them.

LOFL... 

 

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

I mean, literally former warpac nations are part of NATO now, literally there is nothing sekrit or exploitable on the 9.12 Mig29. The west literally knows everything and have for decades. So the whole dokumints thing is mostly bunk. You can literally goto public libraries in former warpac countries and find detailed docs for this jet, everything from maintenance to flight manuals etc. I know a guy raiding them for mig23 docs as we speak. 

But Russia is Russia, and logic doesn't necessarily apply. 

 

 

 

LOFL... 

 

That is an oversimplification of the problem at hand, but regardless it's something we want to do, and when we know more or for sure how that will look, you guys will be the first to know. 

 

On 10/4/2023 at 10:00 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

I'm pretty sure that if they knew Russian government couldn't touch them, they wouldn't give a big rat's ass about what they want. Russia is a pariah anyway, they have no capability to persecute anyone outside their borders, save for Belarus and maybe North Korea (and in occupied Ukraine, of course). OTOH, they gleefully abuse their ability to persecute people inside their borders, and in occupied Ukraine. If ED devs have anyone they're close to who lives in Russia, it's understandable they don't want to piss them off.

At least the forums are definitely under Russian law, because then, the Ukrainian flag would've been taboo, like it is on the other WWII sim's forum. Since we can have it in avatars, and we can call the conflict a war, at least that bit must be somewhere in the West (probably Switzerland).

Hopefully a 3rd party arrives to make it, maybe a German team, and with focus on Luftwaffe MiGs. In fact, it'd be wonderful to have someone like True Grit make it, after they're done with the Eurofighter.

 

Lets avoid this discussion, it really has nothing to do with anything. Its all guessing and not based in any facts. Talk about how much you want the MiG-29, and what you would like to see, but leave everything else alone, please and thank you. 

[spacemishka]

Would like to have it

[okopanja]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:36 AM, NineLine said:

what you would like to see,

Lazur and matching virtual seat for GCI officer.

[BIGNEWY]

threads merged

[Mike_Romeo]

6 hours ago, questionask said:

can someone with the correct info confirm if full fidelity mig 29 is coming or not?

It wasnt either confirmed or denied. ED stated they want to make one but its unclear if they have started development or if they are even able to developed it due to Russian laws.

Read those articles  and take a look at the screenshots below

https://stormbirds.blog/2020/12/18/eagle-dynamics-confirms-mig-29-9-12-development/
https://stormbirds.blog/2021/01/09/the-twin-fates-of-dcs-ka-50-blackshark-3-and-mig-29/

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Mike_Romeo

[Krippz]

Would be really nice to have a MiG-29 to be able to have a high performance full fidelity Red-For aircraft.

[Ramius007]

To adding something new to existing Mig 29 fleet, NATO Mig 29 woud be salution, level of modernization that took place in 2013 is well known, with detailed list of upgrdes, yet it's hard to find black on white what new armament is availble now, can assume those are JDAM's, laser guided bombs with lasing provided by wingman/ground operator, possibly HARM fired in raw 60's era way. This would be both full fidelity Mig, but also not totally useless modern fighter bomber, with slighty diffrent to original Russian cockpit, feets/knots HUD, more radios, link 16 and tac situation MFD, new mission computer.  Guess including something like Mig-29PL wouldnt set ED members on Russian law fire, just not sure if interest in such Mig would be on same level compered to original one.