not planned or correct for version Stinger, Sidewinder or other air-to-air missiles

[Raptor9]

2 hours ago, StrykeZ99 said:

I was just wondering if the Apache will be able to equip air to air missiles in the future? 

I read online somewhere that the Apache is able to carry AIM-9, stinger and mistral.

Hello StrykeZ99, unfortunately websites like Wikipedia, fas.org, globalsecurity.org often post identical information (in some cases it leads to circular reporting), and it can propagate a lot of internet myths about topics regarding military aircraft or weapons.

But to summarize, the U.S. Army AH-64D (which is the variant the DCS: AH-64D is simulating), has never been capable of employing any air-to-air missiles of any type. It was not simply a choice to not mount the weapons themselves, as is often stated on social media and other sites, but the aircraft physically lacked the hardware and software to employ such weapons. The U.S. AH-64D's could no more employ those air-to-air missiles than they could employ an AIM-54 Phoenix. Japanese AH-64D's were modified with such capability (as is often cited); but U.S. AH-64D's could not.

There were weapon trials performed to various extents decades ago on the AH-64A, with the Stinger and Sidewinder missiles; you can even find photos of a Sidewinder missile being fired from an AH-64A's outboard underwing pylon, or images of Sidewinders mounted on the wingtips of very early production AH-64As as mock-ups. There were even legitimate plans to field the Stinger to the U.S. Army AH-64A fleet if I remember correctly, but that never materialized.

As such, there is no plans to simulate air-to-air missiles on the DCS: AH-64D.

[Dniwe125]

On the weapon selector WAS, joystick A is down, the air-to-air missile selection is turned on, and the question is which of the carriages will be presented on a helicopter in the simulator, if in real life, as far as I know, 2 types of missiles were used, AIM-9L modifications, and FIM-92 Stinger? Or will there be both?images.jfifmain-qimg-c06bbdda1315232ea9f577b31f7992e4-lq.jfif

[bradmick]

Literally none. Reference this thread here:

 

[Dniwe125]

then the question is, why is the air-to-air selection in the control settings, and it says that missiles were installed on the Japanese D version, and we don’t say in the simulator the version from which region the helicopter is, and also why then the black shark 3 is implemented on the ka-50 air-to-air needle if in real life this version was not even in service, it turns out that the experimental version of the ka-50 is possible, but the AН-64 is not?

Edited February 18, 2023 by Dniwe125

[BIGNEWY]

5 minutes ago, Dniwe125 said:

then the question is, why is the air-to-air selection in the control settings, and it says that missiles were installed on the Japanese D version, and we don’t say in the simulator the version from which region the helicopter is, and also why then the black shark 3 is implemented on the ka-50 air-to-air needle if in real life this version was not even in service, it turns out that the experimental version of the ka-50 is possible, but the AН-64 is not?

 

We have discussed this many times here on the forum, A2A missiles would not be correct for our AH-64D 

It has nothing to do with the Ka-50. 

[Akiazusa]

Don't forget the sensors of Missile approach warning system are on the wing tips,you can't just hang a AA missile on a sensor,right?

Edited February 18, 2023 by Akiazusa

[AdrianL]

45 minutes ago, Dniwe125 said:

we don’t say in the simulator the version from which region the helicopter is

It is very specific 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by AdrianL

[v2tec]

Waiting for the AA missiles. Shouldn't be hard to implement. Physics  and behaviour of the sidewinder should be already available, we only need the control from inside the apache.

 

btw: FCR would be great too

Edited July 9, 2023 by v2tec

[Jackjack171]

7 minutes ago, v2tec said:

Waiting for the AA missiles. Shouldn't be hard to implement. Physics  and behaviour of the sidewinder should be already available, we only need the control from inside the apache.

 

btw: FCR would be great too

 

You may want to check the forums, mate. This has been discussed and is not the Apache that ED is modeling.  

[QuiGon]

11 hours ago, v2tec said:

Waiting for the AA missiles. Shouldn't be hard to implement. Physics  and behaviour of the sidewinder should be already available, we only need the control from inside the apache.

btw: FCR would be great too

Uhm, Apaches never had Sidewinders IRL (at least not operationally) and thus will not have them in DCS either. No idea what made you think that?

Edited July 9, 2023 by QuiGon

[Gunnar81]

We have to pray to the DCS Gods that the AH-1Z will one day be a thing. THEN, we can have AIM 9's properly

[corbu1]

Are there any statistics how often AA missiles were used by helicopters against helicopters IRL?

[NeedzWD40]

This subject just will not die. The AH-64 was never in its service life ever qualified for AIM-9 Sidewinder or AGM-122 Sidearm. Period. End of story. Any pictures you see are mockups for sales brochures or extremely limited test shots done with modified test airframes. The only air-to-air missile ever qualified and currently employed on some AH-64 models is the FIM-92. The US Army only did limited testing for potential employment on their airframes; everyone else that got them has variants made to a different specification. There is the potential that the US Army might modify their AH-64E models to carry ATAS on the primary weapon stations, but thus far this has not come to fruition to the best of my knowledge.

 

 

11 minutes ago, corbu1 said:

Are there any statistics how often AA missiles were used by helicopters against helicopters IRL?

To my knowledge, there are no real world occurrences of AAMs being employed from a helicopter against another aircraft. Only ATGMs, rockets, cannons, and guns have been recorded, most of which are claims.

[Grennymaster]

you just have to understand how Helo missions are planed. they are mostly under Air cover. so the simply dont really need to have an AA missle. NO offense to anyone wishes can always be made

side note: i shoot down slow flying helos with L and K Hellfires at about 6km so in case

 

[corbu1]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb NeedzWD40:

 

To my knowledge, there are no real world occurrences of AAMs being employed from a helicopter against another aircraft. Only ATGMs, rockets, cannons, and guns have been recorded, most of which are claims.

Thanks! I haven‘t heard of any events as well. My question was some kind of rhetoric  as I don‘t understand why it‘s always asked for AA missiles on the Apache or other choppers in DCS.

Edited July 9, 2023 by corbu1

[admiki]

29 minutes ago, NeedzWD40 said:

This subject just will not die. The AH-64 was never in its service life ever qualified for AIM-9 Sidewinder or AGM-122 Sidearm. Period. End of story. Any pictures you see are mockups for sales brochures or extremely limited test shots done with modified test airframes. The only air-to-air missile ever qualified and currently employed on some AH-64 models is the FIM-92. The US Army only did limited testing for potential employment on their airframes; everyone else that got them has variants made to a different specification. There is the potential that the US Army might modify their AH-64E models to carry ATAS on the primary weapon stations, but thus far this has not come to fruition to the best of my knowledge.

 

 

To my knowledge, there are no real world occurrences of AAMs being employed from a helicopter against another aircraft. Only ATGMs, rockets, cannons, and guns have been recorded, most of which are claims.

But, but, but, Hind has R-60's. We can't have pride of the West be outclassed!

If you can't tell, this was said in jest.

[NeedzWD40]

52 minutes ago, corbu1 said:

My question was some kind of rhetoric  as I don‘t understand why it‘s always asked for AA missiles on the Apache or other choppers in DCS.

I'd pin it on the fact that many DCS scenarios often put players in situations that would be strictly avoided in real life. Not that that can't or shouldn't be done, but you find out real quick why things aren't done that way.

44 minutes ago, admiki said:

But, but, but, Hind has R-60's. We can't have pride of the West be outclassed!

Man, if only we could've had an AH-1W, then we would have access to both AGM-122 and AIM-9. Of course, we'd also get mostly analog avionics, laser AGM-114 only (and with a maximum of 8!), and a much more convoluted front and backseat workflow, but gosh darn it, at least AIM-9 would be there!

[v2tec]

I haven't seen it on the roadmap for the apache, but I still hope it is coming (soon) - stinger missiles for AA (is a valid loadout).

I like the AA missiles for the KA-50. It is no longer necessary to hide from enemy aircrafts - I like it.

 

[Raptor9]

@v2tec, no air-to-air missiles of any kind were ever implemented on US Army AH-64D's. As such, these are not realistic loadouts and are not on the roadmap for that reason.

Threads merged again.

[mchighlander73]

Guys... I've read some post, but I'm not sure having well understood....

Will the AH-64D have Air to Air missiles? Stingers... Sidewinders...

The FCR has ATA mode (even not implemented yet).

I remember the old Jane's Longbow II flightsim had them...

[Raptor9]

@mchighlander73, please review the recent posts in this thread or the DCS AH-64D Frequently Asked Questions.

Threads merged.

[v2tec]

There's an jettison button for the right and left wing tips.

Can we expect new weapons (e.g. Stingers) for the wing tips?

null

[Raptor9]

@v2tec, as already answered to you twice before in the previous comments, there has never been such a capability on the US Army AH-64D.

The ATA weapon controls and wingtip jettison buttons are growth options in case air-to-air weapons were ever integrated, but this never occurred and they were never functional.