reported earlier Cloud jitter & movement

[LooseSeal]

And I'm just going to keep this thread alive... I still cannot use any cloud preset other than clear skies because it's just making me feel sick while playing and looking at the jittering. And no, I'm not going to stop using TrackIR because it's not the same without, and VR is out of my budget range.

 

The lack of communication regarding 2D/TrackIR users is bordering on disrespectful... Just an acknowledgement of the issue would be great. Would really love to experience the new weather the same way other users are!

[30mikemike]

  On 7/29/2021 at 3:43 PM, LooseSeal said:

And I'm just going to keep this thread alive... I still cannot use any cloud preset other than clear skies because it's just making me feel sick while playing and looking at the jittering. And no, I'm not going to stop using TrackIR because it's not the same without, and VR is out of my budget range.

 

The lack of communication regarding 2D/TrackIR users is bordering on disrespectful... Just an acknowledgement of the issue would be great. Would really love to experience the new weather the same way other users are!

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Same here mate. I was a VR user but went back to TrackIR as I prefer it. But, this cloud issue with 2D happens regardless of TrackIR. Try flying without it and it does it. Christ knows what the issue is but they really need to address it because clear skies should be a thing of the past.

Edited July 29, 2021 by 30mikemike

[Leg2ion]

Not getting any cloud jitter using latest stable (offline) with DelanClip - that I can see anyway. 

 

Did get a lot of graphical jitter previously but that was due to my head track set up - once I played with the curves it was fine.

[30mikemike]

  On 7/30/2021 at 9:19 AM, Leg2ion said:

Not getting any cloud jitter using latest stable (offline) with DelanClip - that I can see anyway. 

 

Did get a lot of graphical jitter previously but that was due to my head track set up - once I played with the curves it was fine.

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It’s not jitter as such, it’s the actual clouds moving, like they’re not anchored to the environment. They wobble like jelly when you roll the aircraft left or right etc. Happens regardless of whether you’ve got the head tracking or not.

[Leg2ion]

  On 7/31/2021 at 6:30 AM, 30mikemike said:

It’s not jitter as such, it’s the actual clouds moving, like they’re not anchored to the environment. They wobble like jelly when you roll the aircraft left or right etc. Happens regardless of whether you’ve got the head tracking or not.

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Still not seeing it...

[30mikemike]

  On 8/3/2021 at 12:07 PM, Leg2ion said:

Still not seeing it...

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This is concerning that you’re not seeing the clouds move. Which cloud preset are you using? 

[Art-J]

  On 8/3/2021 at 12:07 PM, Leg2ion said:

Still not seeing it...

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Nah, It rather means you're not that "sensitive" to it, 'cause it's there allright as inherent effect of 2D rendering in current version, even when no headtracking device of any sort is connected.

 

Granted, it's relatively mild glitch and only visible when looking to the side at distant clouds near horizon. Different cloud presets also seem to affect the severity of the issue. So, for some guys it's not a big problem (I only notice it when I look hard for it and I'd rather see more pressing bugs fixed first), but others "cannot unsee it" so to speak and would like to see it fixed. Can't blame them.

[Flappie]

Absolutely. I only noticed this issue after seeing a video from this thread. Now, I easily spot it during flights. The effect doesn't affect nearby clouds, one has to look a bit further.

 

It is true it breaks immersion. Suddenly, you're not fighting the enemy anymore, only wondering how this bug "works".

 

Anyway, it's reported. Wait and see.

[FZG_Immel]

still no words from ED from this ? are you freaking serious ? clouds have been out HOW MANY MONTHS now ?

 

Can you COMMUNICATE ? is it ever going to be fixed ?

 

 

Edit:_ nevermind. I see a beta tester commented on this up here.

 

Im just wondering how nobody saw that in beta testing...

Edited August 22, 2021 by FZG_Immel

[twistking]

for me, the movement is very ovious. it's like the clouds are bouncing up and down.

 

i'm "only" on 1080p, maybe this increases the problem compared to higher resolutions? (i could imagine that the clouds are moving in steps relative to cloud resolution, which will most probably scale with render resolution).

has anyone already tested if the issue is tied to some graphic settings? for me it is very, very obvious and i cannot really imagine that someone would not notice it. that's why i'm thinking the severity of the problem might be related to some graphic settings.

[Flappie]

  On 8/30/2021 at 3:59 PM, twistking said:

for me, the movement is very ovious. it's like the clouds are bouncing up and down.

 

i'm "only" on 1080p, maybe this increases the problem compared to higher resolutions? (i could imagine that the clouds are moving in steps relative to cloud resolution, which will most probably scale with render resolution).

has anyone already tested if the issue is tied to some graphic settings? for me it is very, very obvious and i cannot really imagine that someone would not notice it. that's why i'm thinking the severity of the problem might be related to some graphic settings.

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Can you make a movie clip, so we can compare?

I'm on 1920x1200.

[twistking]

  On 8/30/2021 at 4:42 PM, Flappie said:

 

Can you make a movie clip, so we can compare?

I'm on 1920x1200.

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i think it would be better if each of us compared with different resoulutions and settings on our own. my main reason for this is that i don't think youtube-compression works well with some of the minor jelly-warping, because the temporal element of the compression might smooth out the minor movements. at least in the video in this thread i find it much harder to see the wobble comapred to actual playing myself. this might have to do with trackIR also. it does not technically elevate the problem, but i think using trackIR (or other head tracking) might make it more noticeable, since the little depth perception you get by using trackIR is lost with the wobble.

 

i have noticed that the clouds are made out of clusters and while each cluster is stable in itself, it is not always stable in comparrison to other clusters. in "scattered" and "broken" weater conditions, a cluster is usually a single cloud or single cloud-cluster, in overcast conditions the clouds are made up of many clusters in direct succesion. with scattered clouds the issue looks more like the clouds jumping or jittering in more overcast conditions you get the sensation of the clouds warping and jelly wobbling, because only single clusters are affected at the same time, with surrounding clusters being stable.

 

it's also more noticeable at the edge of the screen, but when you maneuvre your aircraft, or nod your head with head-tracking it can also appear right in front of your aircraft. i therefore assume that it might have something to do with projection angle.

[Art-J]

Did some flying today with one of those two- and three-layered "broken" presets. I've got an impression (though haven't investigated it thoroughly enough) that it's the lowest layer that's always the most jumpy, not only in relation to the terrain, but also to the higher layers, which, surprisingly, appear to be quite stable.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Art-J

[twistking]

  On 9/1/2021 at 7:47 PM, Art-J said:

Did some flying today with one of those two- and three-layered "broken" presets. I've got an impression (though haven't investigated it thoroughly enough) that it's the lowest layer that's always the most jumpy, not only in relation to the terrain, but also to the higher layers, which, surprisingly, appear to be quite stable.

 

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i thought the same, HOWEVER it could also be a question of perspective. for example the clouds seem less jumpy when looking at them from below. for me the jumpiness gets noticeable when you are at cloud height or above. this could also be the reason why higher cloud levels look more stable. i haven't really tested this though...

[twistking]

i just realize that for me it's onyl visible in cockpit view!!! in F2 cam, the clouds are completely stable. but there is more: i experience some slight aliasing artefacting with the clouds. it's a bit hard to describe looking like an aliasing artefact but smudgy. i never cared about it too much as it is not that much of a distraction for me (comapred to the jelly clouds) and i just assumed these mild artefacts where just a result of the clouds being relatively performance friendly. however these artefacts are also not visible in F2 cam. so basically the clouds look absolutely fantastic in F2 and are temporeally stable without bouncing, wobble or aliasing artefacts, while in cockpit cam they are wobbly and show some slight artefacting.

 

tested in the a-10c II on stable branch

 

i think with this we can rule out that it is a hardware or driver issue, as everyone shouldbe able to change from wobbly to perfectly stable clouds with jsut a button press. by the way, i also palyed around with FOV in cockpit view, but this did not change anything. wobble and aliasing was still visible.

(i want to stress again, that the smudgy aliasing artefacting is not really that bad. maybe you wouldn't even notice on higher resolution. the problem is the wobble. i do however believe that the two issues are related, since in F2 cam they are both gone)

 

*edit* ps: @Flappie maybe you want to add my findings to the bug report. i think they are very helpful when debugging this problem.

Edited September 3, 2021 by twistking

[twistking]

I must correct my prior statement: There still is some of the smudgy aliasing artefacting going on in external view. I think it's less than in cockpit view, but i am not completely sure tbh.
So maybe it's not related to clouds jellybouncing after all.

 

The cloud bounce/wobble however is definitely only visible in cockpit view. I checked multiple times and there is absolutely no cloud wobble or jelly bounce in external view.

Edited September 6, 2021 by twistking

[b0bl00i]

I can chip in and say it's very obvious that the clouds move and jitter. I'm playing non VR at 3440x1440. Cloud ultra settings

Edited September 9, 2021 by b0bl00i

[twistking]

  On 9/9/2021 at 11:18 AM, b0bl00i said:

I can chip in and say it's very obvious that the clouds move and jitter. I'm playing non VR at 3440x1440. Cloud ultra settings

 

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please also compare with external view (F2) and check if clouds are stable there.

[twistking]

in the latest videos by wags i could not spot the bouncing clouds, so maybe (hopefully) it is already fixed internally?

 

i also checked older videos by wags and could definitely see the jelly bounce, but it appeared to be a little bit less noticeable than it's for me on my system. this could have to do with youtube-compression, wags running higher resolution than me affecting the scaling of the cloud issue, or simply the fact that it's less obvious if you're just watching a video compared to actually playing yourself with headtracking enabled.

 

well, i really hope that it's fixed internally now, because it is really distracting.

 

by the way, could someone else than me confirm that jellyboucne only occurs in cockpit perspective and that clouds are perfectly stable in external view?

thanks.

[Ironhand]

  On 9/14/2021 at 10:54 AM, twistking said:

...by the way, could someone else than me confirm that jellyboucne only occurs in cockpit perspective and that clouds are perfectly stable in external view?...

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Assuming that we are talking about the same thing, I only see the anomaly when viewing clouds to my right or left through the canopy, never directly ahead. And never in F2 view in any direction. I've attached a video of what I see. YT's algorithms subdue the effect, so I didn't bother with uploading it there.

 

Cloud Anomaly.zipFetching info...

Edited September 14, 2021 by Ironhand

[twistking]

  On 9/14/2021 at 2:17 PM, Ironhand said:

Assuming that we are talking about the same thing, I only see the anomaly when viewing clouds to my right or left through the canopy, never directly ahead. And never in F2 view in any direction. I've attached a video of what I see. YT's algorithms subdue the effect, so I didn't bother with uploading it there.

 

Cloud Anomaly.zip 3.3 MB · 1 download

 

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to be honest, i don't really see any wobble in your video. so, i assume it's different but probably related (since it's only visible from cockpit). what i call jellybounce is better seen when above the clouds. it's some clouds clusters jittering up and down giving the impression of the cloudscape wobbling like jelly in broken or overcast condition. with scattered, single clouds it is more like jittering (technically it's the same movement, but the impression is different).

 

@Ironhand what i see in your video is what i earlier described as "smudgy aliasing artefacting". i have this too, but it does not bother me that much. i have this also in external view, but it's much more pronounced in cockpit view (are you sure that it's completely gone in external? it's hard to judge from the video).

the wobble, or jellybounce on the other hand is completely gone in external.

Edited September 14, 2021 by twistking

[Ironhand]

What I see can best be described vertical folding of the clouds angling to the right at certain distances. I don’t ever recall seeing what you’re describing. Maybe I just haven’t looked closely enough.

[Peter5on]

Those dancing clouds really breaks immersion, especially when they're on the background  and you're chasing someone it looks like the plane in front of them shifts around, like desync. Its happening only on distant clouds near the horizon, if someone want to replicate that just keep your head (track ir) still and jerk plane gently up down left right. Dont zoom in, keep it at neutral. How can something like this be even possible? Rotating clouds ok but moving around like that? Never seen anything like that before.

[FZG_Immel]

  On 9/14/2021 at 10:54 AM, twistking said:

in the latest videos by wags i could not spot the bouncing clouds, so maybe (hopefully) it is already fixed internally?

 

i also checked older videos by wags and could definitely see the jelly bounce, but it appeared to be a little bit less noticeable than it's for me on my system. this could have to do with youtube-compression, wags running higher resolution than me affecting the scaling of the cloud issue, or simply the fact that it's less obvious if you're just watching a video compared to actually playing yourself with headtracking enabled.

 

well, i really hope that it's fixed internally now, because it is really distracting.

 

by the way, could someone else than me confirm that jellyboucne only occurs in cockpit perspective and that clouds are perfectly stable in external view?

thanks.

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 praying that its been fixed. the lack of communication is troubling though

[Bagpipe]

I have never noticed much jittering in the clouds until today's update now they are bouncing around the sky in unison quite horrifically...