Moneys no object...best VR headset?

[Hammer3246]

What's the verdict?  I have a top end PC and graphics card but no clue when it comes to headsets.  This is DCS exclusive so basically sitting only.

 

Thanks

[trigen]

If you want the best then you got the Varjo XR3 with human vision in the center amazing lenses and around 100 degree FOV with no foam on. https://varjo.com/products/xr-3/  There's some reviews of the VR 3 cheaper version here. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLDzAfTbE7hv0ipGTkHV2Q 
 

For very wide FOV the Xtal  https://www.xtal.pro/product/xtal-8k-virtual-headset

 

Then you got the Pimax 8k X 4k and massive FOV for normal consumers which i have myself but this is not plug and play. A lot of people get eyestrain and its PITA to fix and sometimes impossible as you have to tune in multiple dimension for each eye. Or you could be totally fine out of the box. You just dont know  https://pimax.com/product/vision-8k-x/

Edited June 15, 2021 by trigen

[BeastyBaiter]

Do those cards work with DCS, trigen? I would stick with mainstream consumer devices for the sake of it actually working unless someone can confirm those work. For me, I  answered this question with the HP Reverb G2 a few weeks ago. The index seems the better option for room scale stuff but for flight sims, resolution is everything and the Reverb G2 is the clear winner. It does require a monster PC to run, my 2080 Super is not remotely close to being able to run it at native resolution at even a paltry 45 fps. I set steamVR to the device's physical resolution (roughly 2/3rds the "native" resolution) and have tried locking it at 60 fps. That has worked pretty well for me and is still much clearer than the Rift S it replaces.

[Munkwolf]

I was just reading the XTAL specs and it lists SteamVR and DCS World explicitly under Software Compatibility.

 

• SOFTWARE COMPATIBILITY
  SteamVR (OpenVR) driver, Prepar3D, DCS World, AeroFly FS2, Xplane-11, Asseto Corsa, Project Cars Industry: Autodesk VRED native support, Dassault Systèmes software, IC.IDO by ESI, P3DT Engines: Unity Engine, Unreal Engine, Unigine, Crytek

[Hammer3246]

10 hours ago, BeastyBaiter said:

Do those cards work with DCS, trigen? I would stick with mainstream consumer devices for the sake of it actually working unless someone can confirm those work. For me, I  answered this question with the HP Reverb G2 a few weeks ago. The index seems the better option for room scale stuff but for flight sims, resolution is everything and the Reverb G2 is the clear winner. It does require a monster PC to run, my 2080 Super is not remotely close to being able to run it at native resolution at even a paltry 45 fps. I set steamVR to the device's physical resolution (roughly 2/3rds the "native" resolution) and have tried locking it at 60 fps. That has worked pretty well for me and is still much clearer than the Rift S it replaces.

Thanks!  So is the headset enough,  or do I need more?

[BeastyBaiter]

For the Reverb G2 you just need the headset and a monster PC. There is also a bit of software to install but it's free. Process for setup is explained in the directions but a basic overview to get it working with DCS is as follows:

 

1) Plug in headset

2) Follow prompts to install Windows Mixed Reality

3) Continue following prompts to configure the headset

4) Install Steam if you don't already have it somehow.

5) Install SteamVR

6) Install Steam Windows Mixed Reality

7) Launch DCS, go to settings and turn on VR.

 

Now you can play DCS in VR. If you opt for the Index, you'll have to setup tracking pucks but you get to skip the WMR and Steam WMR install steps.

Edited June 16, 2021 by BeastyBaiter

[Taz1004]

If money is no object, I'd get Vive Pro 2.  Higher resolution and refresh rate than Reverb G2 but main reason I'd chose Vive Pro 2 over Reverb G2 is that Vive is native Steam.  Don't have to mess with WMR.

And I'd stick with consumer products as well for compatibility and support.  Software and API change all the time and mainstream consumer products will promptly keep them updated.  And they're more likely to be around for awhile versus you never know when those enterprise product companies will go away.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Taz1004

[dburne]

7 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

If money is no object, I'd get Vive Pro 2.  Higher resolution and refresh rate than Reverb G2 but main reason I'd chose Vive Pro 2 over Reverb G2 is that Vive is native Steam.  Don't have to mess with WMR.

And I'd stick with consumer products as well for compatibility and support.  Software and API change all the time and mainstream consumer products will promptly keep them updated.  And they're more likely to be around for awhile versus you never know when those enterprise product companies will go away.

 

 

Agreed.

[PicklePicklePickle]

A disclaimer, I don't own or have tried the xtal or varjo although I admit I also have been on the verge of getting one of these, but this changed my mind:

 

I started my DCS VR life with the same question as the OP. I found DCS so remarkable that I just wanted the best VR experience, and build a dedicated machine for it.

 

I bought(and often returned) a bunch of headsets. I found that some of the 'higher end' ones like the Pimax 8KX were (my opinion) technically flawed and unusable. Even putting the quantifiable aside, there is also the eye strain issue which I think is more of a personal/biological thing...some people feel more comfortable/relaxed with some headsets than others, I don't know why.

 

The bottom line for me was that unlike regular displays, in VR you can't just look at the specs. I would be cautious of expecting a VR headset to be the best just because it is expensive, but I could very well be wrong.

 

In the end, and after a lot of trying headsets side-by-side, I am using the Index which on paper, the specs are actually among the worst(lowest resolution, etc). Yet, for DCS I feel it is by far, the best.

 

Try as many as you can, see what works for you, and always expect disappointment around the corner.

[dburne]

7 minutes ago, PicklePicklePickle said:

A disclaimer, I don't own or have tried the xtal or varjo although I admit I also have been on the verge of getting one of these, but this changed my mind:

 

I started my DCS VR life with the same question as the OP. I found DCS so remarkable that I just wanted the best VR experience, and build a dedicated machine for it.

 

I bought(and often returned) a bunch of headsets. I found that some of the 'higher end' ones like the Pimax 8KX were (my opinion) technically flawed and unusable. Even putting the quantifiable aside, there is also the eye strain issue which I think is more of a personal/biological thing...some people feel more comfortable/relaxed with some headsets than others, I don't know why.

 

The bottom line for me was that unlike regular displays, in VR you can't just look at the specs. I would be cautious of expecting a VR headset to be the best just because it is expensive, but I could very well be wrong.

 

In the end, and after a lot of trying headsets side-by-side, I am using the Index which on paper, the specs are actually among the worst(lowest resolution, etc). Yet, for DCS I feel it is by far, the best.

 

Try as many as you can, see what works for you, and always expect disappointment around the corner.

 

I would never spend a huge amount of money on a VR headset as the technology will likely be improving fairly rapidly anyway.

What I spent previously on the Index kit is about my limit I would do.

[Supmua]

4 hours ago, dburne said:

 

I would never spend a huge amount of money on a VR headset as the technology will likely be improving fairly rapidly anyway.

What I spent previously on the Index kit is about my limit I would do.

Have to agree here.  I don’t mind sinking 4-5K for a VR setup that would last me 5-10 years like a home theatre system.  But whatever headset you buy now is just going to be dated in 1-2 year.  Look what happens to the Varjo 1 or original Xtal, the newer models came out quickly and the old ones were pretty much forgotten and those headsets are very expensive—a huge money sink.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Supmua

[eaglecash867]

If money's no object, you could get one of these and skip the VR headset.  

 

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/08/29/fully-operational-f-16-fighter-jet-hits-the-market/

[A2597]

I think I would say Vive Pro 2 as well. You will need a beefy PC to power it though.

[Hammer3246]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I think I'll go with the Vive 2.

[Taz1004]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

Have to agree here.  I don’t mind sinking 4-5K for a VR setup that would last me 5-10 years like a home theatre system.  But whatever headset you buy now is just going to be dated in 1-2 year.  Look what happens to the Varjo 1 or original Xtal, the newer models came out quickly and the old ones were pretty much forgotten and those headsets are very expensive—a huge money sink.

 

 

This is one of the reason I stayed with Vive line as you can upgrade headsets only cutting the upgrade cost in half.

[dburne]

21 minutes ago, Taz1004 said:

 

This is one of the reason I stayed with Vive line as you can upgrade headsets only cutting the upgrade cost in half.

 

Yeah when it was announced I was very glad I already had the Lighthouse 2.0 system that came with my Valve Index.

Getting the VP2 was a no brainer for me, and very glad I did.

[Baldrick33]

On 6/15/2021 at 6:18 AM, Hammer3246 said:

What's the verdict?  I have a top end PC and graphics card but no clue when it comes to headsets.  This is DCS exclusive so basically sitting only.

For exclusively DCS I would recommend the G2. It is plug and play in terms of the WMR software then you just need a couple of free Steam apps and you are good to go, all will be loaded when you fire up DCS.

 

The inside out tracking is fine for seated applications and the so so controllers will just sit on a shelf. You don't need to rig up and power base stations.

 

Having tried Reverb G1 & G2, Index, Pimax 5K+ & recently the Vive Pro 2 the Reverbs provide a clearer image in spite of the extra resolution of the Vive Pro2 and just has a greater wow factor for me in a DCS cockpit. That is at some cost of FOV but I would always put image quality over FOV, at least whilst I can move my head around comfortably. Speaking of which the Reverb is a lot lighter and for my head much comfier although it will vary by head shape etc.

 

The Vive Pro 2 has a clear distinction where the lenses overlap (like binoculars) which bothers me, doesn't bother others, whereas the Reverb has much more of a single viewport to the virtual world albeit a smaller one.

 

The Vive Pro 2 will definitely need to be modded in terms of face plate as crazily they have cut holes in the sides to allow for glasses which allow a huge amount of light in. If you have a window or bright lights it will create terrible reflections of your room in your view. Not a great issue as face plates from other devices fit and are readily available .

 

The Vive Pro2 is a big headset with a lot sticking out the back so if you have a high backed seat it is easy to keep hitting the headset on it as you look around. Not a deal breaker but the Reverb (even the G1 with its clunky connector) is less obtrusive.

 

By now you will gather I don't really like the Vive Pro 2. It didn't fit my head very well even with a variety of different width face plates, I ended up stuffing foam to fill the gaps between my face and the plate to stop reflections even after ditching the stock one with cut outs. It was hot and uncomfortable after 15 mins or so. It doesn't play nicely with iRacing needing revive to make it run as an Oculus. I frequently lost tracking for a few seconds if I touched the headset (EMF interference with my sim racing kit I believe - I have had that with every headset using base stations). I had a few extra steps to remember - turn on the link device, power up the base stations. Hardly a big deal in the scheme of starting up aircraft in DCS but personally more of a faff then WMR. Plus in an effort to get close tp the image on my G1 I had to crank up the settings really high with the inevitable impact on performance. At the same settings the VP2 looked woefully inferior. That said the G2 lenses are designed to use higher supersampling than the G1, so the G2 vs VP2 performance may be closer.

 

The problem we all face is a lot of what I have said is subjective, some of it probably irrelevant (EMF issues) and some definitely down to my head size and shape, maybe even my eyesight (I actually find it easier to read the writing on the dials in a DCS cockpit with my G1 than I do my real world car!). However, I do remain convinced the Reverb display is of a higher quality then the VP2 regardless of resolution, much like a top of the line 4K TV is a better picture than a budget 4K TV when you look at them side by side in a store. Also the other benefits of tracking and controllers become irrelevant if it is seated use only.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Baldrick33

[markturner1960]

Any users on here who have the Varjo? Would be great to see some feedback. How much are they?

[Supmua]

3 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

Any users on here who have the Varjo? Would be great to see some feedback. How much are they?

The VR-3 entry level model costs $3195 but 1 yr subscription plan is mandatory which is another $1495.

 

The center screen is micro-OLED, while LCD is used for peripheral vision.  It boasts human eye resolution of 70 PPD in the center screen and has to use dual display ports to push those pixels. HFOV 115 degree.  They use specialized fresnel lens that doesn’t produce glare. If you’re into cameras, you know lens can be some of the most expensive components out there. Image fidelity-wise this one is the top dog in VR world right now but HFOV is still so so. 
 

If you think HTC products are expensive this one easily tops that.  The 10-meter dual cables alone costs $499.

There are a few glowing YouTube reviews out there. 
 

The cost of the headset alone is reasonable for an enterprise-level device and you could spend that much on a nice OLED TV, but not sure what’s going to happen when your subs runs out. 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Supmua

[DerekSpeare]

Reverb G1

[Harlikwin]

From what the last guy that had an Xtal said, the reverG1 was the better deal

 

 

[TripRodriguez]

Vive Pro 2 users:

 

Vive Pro 2 got really bad reviews, and my overseas friend who ordered it returned it after only a few days and went back to his Reverb G2.  

 

Can anyone here who has gone from the G2 to the Vive Pro 2 give me your impressions, criticisms, etc.?  I was so excited for VP2 but wrote it off completely after all I've heard thus far.  

 

What we really want is an Index V2!  Come on Valve!

[dburne]

44 minutes ago, TripRodriguez said:

Vive Pro 2 users:

 

Vive Pro 2 got really bad reviews, and my overseas friend who ordered it returned it after only a few days and went back to his Reverb G2.  

 

Can anyone here who has gone from the G2 to the Vive Pro 2 give me your impressions, criticisms, etc.?  I was so excited for VP2 but wrote it off completely after all I've heard thus far.  

 

What we really want is an Index V2!  Come on Valve!

 

I have been happy with my Vive Pro 2. Got it in June and have many hours on it now.

I had an Index and a Reverb G2. I would use Index for made for VR games with the controllers, and Reverb G2 for flight sims for the better cockpit clarity.

Now I only use one headset for both as the Vive Pro 2 utilizes the Lighthouse 2 tracking system I already had with the Index, and the clarity is as good or maybe slightly better than Reverb G2. Plus little better horizontal FOV.

 

If one is happy with the G2 and does not already own the tracking system for the Vive Pro 2, I would suggest staying with the G2.

It is not a big leap in difference at all, especially for the overall cost of a whole VP2 kit.

I am running DCS in my Vive Pro 2 around 3500 per eye and able to maintain 45 fps for the most part and get a good experience.

So slightly better than I was running my Reverb G2 at around 3100 per eye. Not much of difference really.

[Steel Jaw]

OMFG ... who can afford this?

[Harlikwin]

14 hours ago, Mower said:

OMFG ... who can afford this?

 

Lol, have you seen some the simpit setups that people have? VR is cheap in comparison.