I hate AAR

[peirof]

Hi, 

 

I am trying to do the AAR, with little or no success, and I have three questions:

 

1- to make precontact you have to be close to the tanker (as close you have to be). 

 

2- After precontacting the tanker extends the refueling probe. After failing miserably several times, the tanker seems to get bored and picks her up. At that moment, I approach again and ask for precontact again, but no more than close, he does not grant it to me and does not extend the probe. What do I do wrong? 

 

3 Is there any way to know the speed at which the tanker flies at the height it is at? I think that would make it a little easier for me to approach sweetly. The speed indicated on the map, I guess will be at sea level

 

Thanks

[Exorcet]

15 minutes ago, peirof said:

the tanker extends the refueling probe.

Out of curiosity which tanker are you trying to get fuel from? The F-18 can't refuel from a boom, you need a tanker with a hose.

 

The tanker should report speed when you contact it, but you can also lock it with radar to determine exact speed, heading, and altitude.

[peirof]

Mmm... Now I dont remember the name, its a type Hércules plane, helix bimotor... 

Not sure, but k130? 

 

 

I suppose that this plane I can refuel, its a downloaded mission of web, for F18... 

[Weasel]

Mmm... Now I dont remember the name, its a type Hércules plane, helix bimotor... 
Not sure, but k130? 
 
 
I suppose that this plane I can refuel, its a downloaded mission of web, for F18... 

Seems to be a KC-130 which only supports probe and drogue

AAR needs a lot of training and skills, so don‘t give up and train, train, train

[Furiz]

Fly formation with the tanker, to get the feel of how much throttle you need to input to keep your plane with the tanker, and how much stick to keep the level flight, just tiny throttle and stick movements, and then when you feel ok with the formation go for the basket and try to connect.

 

It takes lots of practice but it is doable, keep trying! good luck

 

[speed-of-heat]

This video made all the difference to me 

by @104th_Maverick

[Shimmergloom667]

2 hours ago, peirof said:

 

3 Is there any way to know the speed at which the tanker flies at the height it is at? I think that would make it a little easier for me to approach sweetly. The speed indicated on the map, I guess will be at sea level

 

 

When you initally call the tanker it will report to you it's speed and altitude.

 

[Dangerzone]

2 hours ago, peirof said:

3 Is there any way to know the speed at which the tanker flies at the height it is at? I think that would make it a little easier for me to approach sweetly. The speed indicated on the map, I guess will be at sea level

 

Use your radar, and lock onto target to get the VC speed. This will tell you the difference between you and the tanker. (Positive is it's going faster, negative is you're going faster, and 0 is you're going the same).

 

As a rule of thumb, when approaching you could try and make the velocity closing speed that of a multiplication the distance remaining.

 

ie:

 

At 2 miles aim for a VC 200kt closing speed, 

At 1.8 miles aim for a VC of 180kts closing speed...

At 0.2 miles, you could have a 20kt closing speed, 

At 0.1 miles, you could aim for a VC of 10kt closing speed, etc.

and of course after that - eyeball it when you get real close. 

 

There are many threads on the issue already in here - with many good information. A few other quick tips though:

 

It will take a lot of practice. When you get frustrated - LEAVE and come back later. You will not improve as well when you 'hit the wall', so to speak.

 

If you find yourself not moving anything (throttle, or joystick) until after you see it's needed - you're going to make life difficult for yourself. You'll most likely be constantly making tiny movements, and every now and then a slightly larger one - but you'll normally be returning to the centre. "Stirring the pot" I believe they call it with helicopter flight. 

 

Better still - don't try and AAR to start with. Learn to fly formation (without asking for the drogue) first. Get closer to the wing. And then closer. And practice just flying formation. 

 

AAR is primarily formation flying PLUS dealing with the drogue. Going straight to AAR actually makes it more difficult to learn because you're fighting a drogue and trying to stay attached while also learning formation flying (but the drogue will distract you and teach you the wrong thing).

 

Instead I would suggest getting good at flying formation with the tanker first and enjoy how close and how long you can sit there - and when you're confident with that THEN ask for the drogue and give it a stab. (Hint: When finally going for the drogue - DON"T LOOK AT IT! - Look at the wing, or pod of the C130 and fly formation regarding that - your peripheral vision will help with the drogue - but your primary goal will still be formation with the tanker - not chasing the drogue).

 

I hope some of this is of help. Stuff I wish I learned and only learned half way through - which made it so much easier afterwards.

[peirof]

hace 4 horas, Exorcet dijo:

Out of curiosity which tanker are you trying to get fuel from? The F-18 can't refuel from a boom, you need a tanker with a hose.

 

The tanker should report speed when you contact it, but you can also lock it with radar to determine exact speed, heading, and altitude.

I had read that you should not fix with the radar to the tanker

[speed-of-heat]

10 minutes ago, peirof said:

I had read that you should not fix with the radar to the tanker

you shouldnt in the real world, but this is a simulator, and you can do things as a training aid... but the tanker speed is called out when you call to join up on the radio , use that as an approximation, as i think it calls out TAS (rather than IAS), but, take it in stages 

 

1) instruments set up, TCN etc close to the tanker 

 

2) formation flying with the tanker, using visual queues to hold steady in the observation point 

 

3) hold steady behind the tanker using the fuel pod as a reference point 

 

4) approach the tanker keeping the fuel pod as your focus and the basket - in your field of view

 

5) try and plug ... Maverick does a better job of explaining 

 

6) <joke> flip to guns and spray that bastard  </joke>

[peirof]

the o nly i have do...

 

6) <joke> flip to guns and spray that bastard  </joke>

 

its relaxing

[Shimmergloom667]

2 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

you shouldnt in the real world, but this is a simulator, and you can do things as a training aid... but the tanker speed is called out when you call to join up on the radio , use that as an approximation, as i think it calls out TAS (rather than IAS), but, take it in stages 

 

Nope, the callout is IAS

[speed-of-heat]

thanks i sit corrected

 

[oldcrusty]

3 hours ago, peirof said:

the o nly i have do...

 

6) <joke> flip to guns and spray that bastard  </joke>

 

its relaxing

 

Relaxing will stop when you get your ass chewed up on the debrief page.  

On a different note:  What did you fly in DCS before the Hornet?

[speed-of-heat]

i often hum to myself to "distract" myself 

[Theodore42]

Fly in close formation with the tanker for several minutes without trying to connect to anything to get a feel for how your stick inputs affect your spatial orientation relative to the tanker. It's calculous for the brain, as hard as (or as easy as) catching a ball thrown to you (same level of math). The difference is you haven't been connecting to a tanker since you were a kid.

Also when trying to connect you should be flying to the tanker (airplane) and not the drogue.

[Mistermann]

8 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

This video made all the difference to me 

by @104th_Maverick

 

WOW!  That IS a great video.  Thanks for sharing, @speed-of-heat

[Digitalvole]

 Apologies in advance if it’s already been mentioned.

 

I have been practicing aar recently and as well as has been said already, just practice flying in close formation, I have found if I try and keep the first nut(?)/ bump on the top right of the canopy rail lined up with the thingy that the pipe comes out of (check me out with all the technical terms ) I can get the thing in the thing nine times out of ten.
 

Staying connected is a whole new can of worms, I will continue to practice and swear profusely as I do it. 
 

good luck and keep plugging away at it, you’ll get there.

 

edit: forgot to mention I play in VR

 

2nd edit: this works with the S3 (I need to learn to read) with the kc130 I line it up with the top right corner of the hud

Edited July 14, 2021 by Digitalvole

[zildac]

12 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

This video made all the difference to me 

by @104th_Maverick

This is the video that finally "made it happen" for me, once you get it down (I started in 2D and then  moved to VR). I actually find it an incredibly relaxing experience....except in the A10!! Fave for AAR is still the Harrier tbh

[FlippingGerman]

When you start getting frustrated, stop trying, shoot down the tanker to make yourself feel better, and try again in a few hours or the next day. 

Also: the Hornet's built-in refueling mission isn't very good - make your own, simply set a KC-135MPRS (I find bigger tankers much easier than the tiny S-3) going in a nice straight line, 20-25kft, 250-300kts. No wake turbulence, no turning tanker. Or make it part of a mission - go blow up some tanks, grab some fuel, and land. But mostly keep practicing - I could do it within perhaps two weeks of daily practice, albeit very badly, but after that's it's just improvement, you've cracked the hard bit. 

[Svend_Dellepude]

Wiggle your toes to relax!

[Hobel]

When I switched to the WarBRD base, AAR was immediately much easier, in my opinion it also depends on the right hardware.

[zildac]

When I switched to the WarBRD base, AAR was immediately much easier, in my opinion it also depends on the right hardware.

Completely agree. I found it a shoulder wrenching experience on the warthog base.

[Rongor]

What I am actually hating about AAR is "return pre-contact" right when I just got so perfectly close to the basket...

[Dangerzone]

13 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

6) <joke> flip to guns and spray that bastard  </joke>

 

Joke? Come on - it's no joke.  

 

I mean - who hasn't done this at least once out of frustration when first learning? There may be a handful - but I bet if we did a survey - many tankers have died at the hands of us trying to learn and venting frustration. 

 

And switching to being serious for a moment - I think it's actually a good thing to do. When you get that frustrated - shoot it down, and then because it's not there - that's the indicator to get up and walk away from DCS for a while. AAR requires the pilot to be relaxed, not tense and frustrated. (Just back up your logbook first if that matters to you - because you may lose all entries to fracticide).