What HOTAS for AH64D?

[PlatinumBlast]

Hello, I currently use the t16000m hotas (no rudder pedals), which I use with fixed wing aircraft in DCS. I’m really interested in flying the AH64D, and am planning on upgrading my setup sometime this year. I’ve been looking at the Warthog hotas, along with the VKB pedals (virpil is not an option because of where I live), but I’m a bit confused as to whether the Warthog is worth it or not - some people seem to love it, and some people seem to hate it. I’m asking here for any advice on non virpil hotas and rudder pedals, mainly for the Apache, but also for some fixed wings. This is one of my first posts here so sorry if it’s in the wrong category. 

 

Thanks

[STABROSS]

Hola Platinum...

 

Hasta hace poco utilizaba el Warthog , y me iba o va muy bien con los distintos helos ( pues los tengo todos )

Posteriormente descubrì el colectivo de Virpil y me hice con èl , es una pasada 

Obviamente como comentas , no es tu caso en cuanto a Virpil , por lo que te recomendarìa sin dudar que si te lo puedes permitir , te hagas con el Warthog , y unos pedales de Logitec ,( que son los que tengo ) y son muy buenos 

En relaciòn al Throtle Warthog , te aconsejo ( es personal ) , que le configures la palanca de gases , en este caso serìa el Colectivo , que su actuaciòn fuera la de un colectivo real , o sea que la palanca toda hacia adelante , y segùn vayas trayèndola hacia ti , se vaya elevando el helicòptero , ya te digo como si tuvieras el colectivo real

Espero te pueda ayudar

Saludos

[LooseSeal]

I've been using a Warthog for about 4 years now and frankly... I cannot wait to have enough saved up to get rid of it. You get it out of the box and think 'wow, so heavy and shiny'. But I think that illusion wears off fairly quickly, and if you were to try a VKB/Virpil/Winwing etc then you'll see the night and day difference in construction/sensitivity. However - it is obviously a more affordable option, while still being above the entry level stuff.

 

If money is of less concern then absolutely look at VKB or Winwing. It's a pity you can't get Virpil as their collective set looks a bit better than Winwing's. As for collective vs throttle - I guess that depends what you're going to fly more, helo or fixed wing?

 

As for rudder pedals, I upgraded to MFG Crosswinds this year and they're fantastic. Really easy to set up and use. They're also highly configurable, and very easy to install the 'hydraulic' mod that allows them to function more like the anti-torque pedals on a helicopter.

[ThoWmas31]

For the joytick  i will say it's similar to plane, for rudder, i will suggest VKB due to mechanizm , i spent lot of hours to collect feedback and on reddit if i remember well i found a post from a  Helos pilots ( really small, bi turbine, blackhawks etc) he said the VKB was definitly close to the reality for Helos, you just have a extra lenght compare from real world.

 

However MFG is a excellent choice if you want Helos + Planes 

[admiki]

VKB MCGU stick, K51 collective and MFG pedals.

VKB base because of dry clutches that can act as force trim. MCGU for ability to swap ministicks with hats, depending on your preferences.

K51 due to price. While Virpil collective is nice, it's not double the nice to reflect the pricing.

MFG pedals. While toe brakes are not really important, still can be used as extra inputs.

[Tshark]

Having been a Thrustmaster HOTAS customer for over 20 years, I can wholeheartedly recommend going with the VBK/Virpil/Winwing next gen of controllers.  I switched to Virpil HOTAS and MFG pedals over five years ago.  The accuracy and feel is immediately noticeable.  The TM gear required me to maintain/replace parts at least once a year.  With the next gen gear I have not had to give it a second thought.

[GoodHope]

I've had TM Warthog setup, then went VKB stick which was a huge upgrade, but since have gone all VIRPIL.  Don't see myself ever going back to anything else--Virpil all the way.

[kgillers3]

On 10/10/2021 at 5:04 AM, PlatinumBlast said:

Hello, I currently use the t16000m hotas (no rudder pedals), which I use with fixed wing aircraft in DCS. I’m really interested in flying the AH64D, and am planning on upgrading my setup sometime this year. I’ve been looking at the Warthog hotas, along with the VKB pedals (virpil is not an option because of where I live), but I’m a bit confused as to whether the Warthog is worth it or not - some people seem to love it, and some people seem to hate it. I’m asking here for any advice on non virpil hotas and rudder pedals, mainly for the Apache, but also for some fixed wings. This is one of my first posts here so sorry if it’s in the wrong category. 

 

Thanks

You could save the money and keep the t16000m, pick up some pedals along the way. I used the t16000m for years, I despised the pedals personally but the stick and throttle were fine. I have a vkb stick and it’s nice, I’m still kinda fine tuning it, and I went with winwing for the throttle quadrant and was lucky enough to get tprs pedals which are super nice but idk if they’re worth the money for most peeps. I hope this helps you along the way. 

[SmoocheeWallace]

Hello, I also have the T16000M setup (dual stick for space sim) but wanted to upgrade to a different HOTAS setup cause I am new to DCS and want to fly the AH-64 when it comes out as well as other modules like the Huey, F-18 and A-10. Personally, I ended up going with a Wingwin Orion setup + their joystick extension. The virpil setup I wanted ( cm3 throttle w/ warbrd base + C-Alpha grip) would have been around $950-$1000 with shipping and handling, while the Wingwin Orion HOTAS with the extension and shipping came out to around $650. This allowed me to also pick up the MFG crosswind v3s for rudders, and now I'm just looking for a collective. Hope this helps!

[sirrah]

I've been using a TM Warthog for several years now (after the gimbal of my TM Cougar broke). I picked it up 2nd hand and never had any regret.

 

Sure, there might be better quality (more sensitivity, more buttons, better construction) options out there, but I really like the metal feel in my hand and prefer it over plastic. And Winwing was/is slightly above what I'm willing to pay for a HOTAS. Also, probably an arguable argument, the Warthog was a big step up from my Cougar (which at that time was still original/unmodded) and because I hadn't used any other HOTAS, I was (and am) not aware that I'm missing out on anything. I'm not bothered by stiction (like many TM users say), or I'm just that lucky guy with a perfect TM Warthog. So no messing around with grease or any of those shenanigans. Tbh; I've been working on F-16's for over a decade when I was still with the RNLAF and I can't say the real life Viper throttle movement is a whole lot smoother than my TM Warthog. And I've done my fair part of throttle rigging during that period. (can't compare the stick movement, as obviously the Viper has force sensors).

 

Anyways.. I can do anything with the TM Warthog with more than enough precision (e.g. AAR, carrier landings, weapon delivery and fly helo's). 

Recently I purchased Virpil's collective, but before that I used the TM throttle (with reversed axis) for helo flying and I was able to do exactly the same as I can now.. (I just wanted some more realism/immersion)

 

Seriously, don't neglect checking for a used (2nd hand) HOTAS. There are constantly plenty of people that move up to more high end (expensive) stuff, but that in no way means that their "old" hardware is junk. It can save you a lot of money... money you'll need for this expensive hobby  

 

 

Oh, and as mentioned before, if you're really serious about flying helo modules, but don't feel like selling a kidney, go for @K-51's collective

[Bedouin]

I bought the VBK MCG Ultimate with a 20cm gooseneck extension to use with the AH-64.. I think the dry clutches will help with setting it up

[Jackjack171]

On 10/12/2021 at 12:56 AM, sirrah said:

I've been using a TM Warthog for several years now (after the gimbal of my TM Cougar broke). I picked it up 2nd hand and never had any regret.

 

Sure, there might be better quality (more sensitivity, more buttons, better construction) options out there, but I really like the metal feel in my hand and prefer it over plastic. And Winwing was/is slightly above what I'm willing to pay for a HOTAS. Also, probably an arguable argument, the Warthog was a big step up from my Cougar (which at that time was still original/unmodded) and because I hadn't used any other HOTAS, I was (and am) not aware that I'm missing out on anything. I'm not bothered by stiction (like many TM users say), or I'm just that lucky guy with a perfect TM Warthog. So no messing around with grease or any of those shenanigans. Tbh; I've been working on F-16's for over a decade when I was still with the RNLAF and I can't say the real life Viper throttle movement is a whole lot smoother than my TM Warthog. And I've done my fair part of throttle rigging during that period. (can't compare the stick movement, as obviously the Viper has force sensors).

 

Anyways.. I can do anything with the TM Warthog with more than enough precision (e.g. AAR, carrier landings, weapon delivery and fly helo's). 

Recently I purchased Virpil's collective, but before that I used the TM throttle (with reversed axis) for helo flying and I was able to do exactly the same as I can now.. (I just wanted some more realism/immersion)

 

Seriously, don't neglect checking for a used (2nd hand) HOTAS. There are constantly plenty of people that move up to more high end (expensive) stuff, but that in no way means that their "old" hardware is junk. It can save you a lot of money... money you'll need for this expensive hobby  

 

 

Oh, and as mentioned before, if you're really serious about flying helo modules, but don't feel like selling a kidney, go for @K-51's collective

I was looking at the Virpil collective as well. I am considering getting one of the stick grips as well (I have the F-14 stick grip from Virpil) for immersion and I want to have the best available. You are correct as the TM Warthog is good for just about everything, but I need something else for the Apache. The Mongoose or the Constellation grips look as close to similar IRT the Apache stick. Which would you recommend? 

[Oldahpilot]

Whatever you decide, ensure you can also get a cyclic extension. Believe me, using a standard throw joystick is nothing like the feel from a proper length cyclic.

I use a thrustmaster warthog with 19cm curved extension for the Gazelle, right forearm resting on right thigh, stick centrally mounted between the knees with seat cutout for full aft movement. So far I've flown over 8000 hours, British Army, Police, and corporate. 

In summary, get that stick between the knees, extend it, and rest your arm on your leg. The rest is a matter of preference for value for money, function, reliability.

[Lurker]

On 10/10/2021 at 3:23 PM, admiki said:

 

VKB base because of dry clutches that can act as force trim. 

 

How does this work? I've been looking at VKB stuff for a few months, but have not pulled the trigger due to price, availability, difficulty of setup and assembly and not sure how these dry clutches are supposed to work. (Mostly the price though) I'm using the MSFFB2 joystick and its fantastic, but its a bit clunky to use because of its short throw. I couldn't go back to a joystick that had no force feedback for helicopters. 

[admiki]

12 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

How does this work? I've been looking at VKB stuff for a few months, but have not pulled the trigger due to price, availability, difficulty of setup and assembly and not sure how these dry clutches are supposed to work. (Mostly the price though) I'm using the MSFFB2 joystick and its fantastic, but its a bit clunky to use because of its short throw. I couldn't go back to a joystick that had no force feedback for helicopters. 

No FFB of any kind. Clutches just provide some resistance to movement and will keep stick in place once you let go

[Lurker]

3 minutes ago, admiki said:

No FFB of any kind. Clutches just provide some resistance to movement and will keep stick in place once you let go

Yeah I get that, but how does it work in practice? You just don't install the provided springs and then move the stick and let it go where you want it?

[admiki]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Yeah I get that, but how does it work in practice? You just don't install the provided springs and then move the stick and let it go where you want it?

I have MCGU grip on 20 cm extension. So I put in #10 spring per axis just to help fighting gravity pull when out of centre. Maybe it will hold position without the springs, but it works for me as it is, so never tested it that way.

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, admiki said:

I have MCGU grip on 20 cm extension. So I put in #10 spring per axis just to help fighting gravity pull when out of centre. Maybe it will hold position without the springs, but it works for me as it is, so never tested it that way.

Thanks for the reply, I think I get it now. Their products are really appealing, especially with the long extensions, but the price....I don't think I can justify getting one until my trusty MSFBB2 dies. Maybe a second hand one if I get lucky. I spent tooooo much this year on the VR, the 3090 etc. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Lurker

[ataribaby]

I think Warthog throttle is excellent, far better than Warthog stick. I got Virpil WarBrd base and together with Warthog throttle I am so happy with that combo.

[cfrag]

I used the TM Warthog setup for a couple of years and was quite satisfied, except for the TPR which I found to be quite uncomfortable(must be something with the way I move). I have since moved to a full Virpil setup. I'm still somewhat yearning for the Warthog stick (which to me was shaped to perfection and has the exact heft I want), it is outclassed wrt functionality by Virpil Alpha (just doesn't feel that good). 

If I may intrude - why is Virpil out of question for you? 

 

[admiki]

4 hours ago, cfrag said:

I used the TM Warthog setup for a couple of years and was quite satisfied, except for the TPR which I found to be quite uncomfortable(must be something with the way I move). I have since moved to a full Virpil setup. I'm still somewhat yearning for the Warthog stick (which to me was shaped to perfection and has the exact heft I want), it is outclassed wrt functionality by Virpil Alpha (just doesn't feel that good). 

If I may intrude - why is Virpil out of question for you? 

 

Did you try VKB MCGU? Metal grip, not as heavy as Warthog. Either 3x5-way hats and two ministicks or 4x5-way/1xmini or 5x5-way hats. Does require VKB base or adapter

[cfrag]

31 minutes ago, admiki said:

Did you try VKB MCGU? Metal grip, not as heavy as Warthog. Either 3x5-way hats and two ministicks or 4x5-way/1xmini or 5x5-way hats. Does require VKB base or adapter

Oh, wow! Thanks, @admiki - I did not try that stick. It looks really nice, and from the weight shown in the data sheet, also seems to come with the heft I'm looking for. Do you know if II can get it fitted with an extra that I've come to really like on the Virpil: a clickable mousewheel (encoder)? I use that on my current stick to turn the knobs in ,y cockpits, and it is really nice for all interfaces (I have tons of encoders on my throttle and panels, but on my right hand, that thing is truly helpful) - any chance I can get that as a customization?

 

[admiki]

Unfortunately, no

[Rabies]

I currently use the maxflightstick huey controls. But I will be placing my warthog throttle next to the collective to allow individual throttle control and more key binding. 

 

[kgillers3]

31 minutes ago, Rabies said:

I currently use the maxflightstick huey controls. But I will be placing my warthog throttle next to the collective to allow individual throttle control and more key binding. 

 

you like the maxflightstick? I'm considering how I want to do my next upgrade, if I wanna go the chair route or a more permanent setup similar to that.  

permanent is wrong way of saying dedicated I guess