Patch notes discussion thread 2022

[Jayhawk1971]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Lt_Jaeger:

Call me crazy, but I thought as well that the 3D effect is more pronounced after changing to "Stereo" 

 

Do you notice this effect "standalone" (= enabling "stereo" without additional tweaks), or do you also have these NVidia inspector settings enabled at the same time? 

[Lt_Jaeger]

30 minutes ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

Do you notice this effect "standalone" (= enabling "stereo" without additional tweaks), or do you also have these NVidia inspector settings enabled at the same time? 

I tried the Nvidia thing a while ago and was seeing some subtil improvement. Since then I never checked again if the settings are still in. 

 

Yesterday I just enabled the stero stuff, did a run in NTTR, which made me believe that it looked better. 

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Lt_Jaeger:

I tried the Nvidia thing a while ago and was seeing some subtil improvement. Since then I never checked again if the settings are still in. 

 

Yesterday I just enabled the stero stuff, did a run in NTTR, which made me believe that it looked better. 

I tried the Nvidia thing as well, but didn't see any discernible difference back then.

I'll try this "stereo" thing later, and I shall see what I shall see.  

[Lt_Jaeger]

17 minutes ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

I tried the Nvidia thing as well, but didn't see any discernible difference back then.

I'll try this "stereo" thing later, and I shall see what I shall see.  

It's not dramatic, and more like a feeling than a seeing, hard to explain 

[Rosebud47]

Just remembered, a few years ago, there was this "single_pass_stereo" setting hidden within the graphicsoption.lua, which could be turned on or off by editing, but was more an experimental line of code at this time.

I think, the "stereo" setting seeing now in the options refers back to that, like @draconus quoted: "Stereo – Pilot video will be split into a stereoscopic pair and output separately. This should only be used by players with stereoscopic display setups."

Well, it does exactly this and in result improves the quality of stereoscopic effect in VR. But it comes at some performance costs, as two separated images are processed for the stereoscopic effect and not only one image processed and copied distorted for the other display in VR.

Didn´t noticed the performance impact as I´m running OpenXR with motion reprojection anyways, so the FPS stay at 45/46 FPS with or without the stereo setting. But if you tuned the settings for VR to be on the edge of 45FPS, the stereo-setting may have an impact by dipping below.

So, in conclusion, if monitor set to "1 monitor" for VR, DCS runs in single pass stereo with a lower quality 3-D effect, but better performance ( on mid- or low-end systems or for higher graphics settings ). Monitor set to "stereo" it will run with a proper stereoscopic effect in VR.

Edit: the difference between single_pass_stereo and real stereoscopic view works independently from the nvidia profile inspector setting. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Rosebud47

[skypickle]

how much does lowering screen res help fps in VR? Thinking about a G2 but my setup is kind of old. !080 titanx (pascal) w 4930k .it does run fine at 1080p. And my led tv does upscale so jaggies are not as bad as when I use a real pc monitor.

[draconus]

12 hours ago, skypickle said:

how much does lowering screen res help fps in VR?

Monitor res has nothing to do with VR mode. Your spec is not enough to handle G2 well but yes, you can make it run at much lower rendering resolution like 1080p but it will look very bad and perform even worse than normal monitor. Maybe some OXR can help with some FSR.

Edit: Sorry, @skypickle I confused your GPU with some other. Your Pascal Titan X is still pretty good on the level of 1080Ti, 2070 and 3060.

Edited September 28, 2022 by draconus

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

5 hours ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

It's not dramatic, and more like a feeling than a seeing, hard to explain 

Yes that's exactly how it comes across for me as well

[schurem]

I love the effect, cockpit looks and feels great now. However, the outside world, and external model now looks too small to me, like 1:2 scale models.

Edited September 28, 2022 by schurem

[draconus]

23 minutes ago, schurem said:

However, the outside world, and external model now looks too small to me, like 1:2 scale models.

The same effect when you mess with IPD setting?

[St4rgun]

12 hours ago, skypickle said:

how much does lowering screen res help fps in VR? Thinking about a G2 but my setup is kind of old. !080 titanx (pascal) w 4930k .it does run fine at 1080p. And my led tv does upscale so jaggies are not as bad as when I use a real pc monitor.

I'm using 10700k, 32 GB with a 1070 (!) and a G2 right now with OXR, single player only.

More than usable without AA, framerate is 30ish on the ground at airports and 40ish in the air at altitude. But the fps variation is huge according to the modules, it's much worse with Apache, Mi-24 and much better with M-2000C, A-10C II, F-16, F-14 and especially F/A-18. The map also have huge impact, Nevada is the best, then Caucasus. Syria is doable, Marianas is totally unusable.

[schurem]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

The same effect when you mess with IPD setting?

No, because the cockpit scale is spot on.

[Rosebud47]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb schurem:

I love the effect, cockpit looks and feels great now. However, the outside world, and external model now looks too small to me, like 1:2 scale models.

 

Couldn´t tell the same for me - looks fine inside and outside with a Reverb G2. Maybe it has to do with the resolution, if you´re running a CV1? ... I mean display resolution, not the render scale.

vor einer Stunde schrieb St4rgun:

I'm using 10700k, 32 GB with a 1070 (!) and a G2 right now with OXR, single player only.

More than usable without AA, framerate is 30ish on the ground at airports and 40ish in the air at altitude. But the fps variation is huge according to the modules, it's much worse with Apache, Mi-24 and much better with M-2000C, A-10C II, F-16, F-14 and especially F/A-18. The map also have huge impact, Nevada is the best, then Caucasus. Syria is doable, Marianas is totally unusable.

That´s true. Also the mirrors activated/deactivated in the cockpit make a performance difference... was mostly noticable for me in the Hornet.

vor 13 Stunden schrieb skypickle:

how much does lowering screen res help fps in VR? Thinking about a G2 but my setup is kind of old. !080 titanx (pascal) w 4930k .it does run fine at 1080p. And my led tv does upscale so jaggies are not as bad as when I use a real pc monitor.

Yes, it helps, as the image shown on the screen, while being in VR, also needs to be processed - the higher resolution the image for the screen is set, the more performance it´ll cost on top of the performance needed for VR. I like the way MSFS2020 is handling this, as VR settings and on screen settings are completely separated, so you could not even lower the resolution for the screen image there, but also lower the graphics setting like MSAA, clouds, shadows, etc. for the screen independed from the graphics settings for VR, what saves some more performance for VR... might be a good idea for DCS to handle VR the same.  

[draconus]

3 minutes ago, Rosebud47 said:

Yes, it helps, as the image shown on the screen, while being in VR, also needs to be processed - the higher resolution the image for the screen is set, the more performance it´ll cost on top of the performance needed for VR.

Do you have hard numbers on this? Afaik the image is rendered for VR and the mirror on the monitor is mere display clone, costing GPU almost nothing. It's like connecting second monitor as a clone - the frame is rendered only once.

[schurem]

2 hours ago, Rosebud47 said:

Couldn´t tell the same for me - looks fine inside and outside with a Reverb G2. Maybe it has to do with the resolution, if you´re running a CV1? ... I mean display resolution, not the render scale.

I forgot to update my sig. It's a 3080ti driving a G2 here. 

[Rosebud47]

@schurem I´m too with a G2, 3090, OpenXR 100% renderscale, but didn´t have the impression that outside things are scaled down...hmm, I have no clue ... are you with OpenXr and maybe set worldscale in OpenXR differently?

 

Dear @draconus,

let´s keep discussions civil - I have no idea what you´re demanding with "hard numbers" other than trying to push for winning an argument over someone else. Honestly, that style of internet discussion is too dumb for me. I really don´t want to expose you, by asking you for some more explanation on how that "copy" you´re talking about is processed, but I´m sure you´re not thinking, there is a dwarf sitting in your computer distributing copies of one and the same picture to whatever periferals there are.

Be invited to share your observations and knowledge to really get to know, how everybody could improve their DCS experience in accordance to each ones preferences to that experience.

I´ve heard as well in the past, that the image on the screen is a copy of the image in VR, while that is true looking on the content of the picture, it needs to be processed anyways to be output on each device.

In the VR options in DCS there is a checkbox, which let´s you render the image on the screen with the resolution and format you´ve set for DCS for monitor. If this box is unchecked it renders the image on the screen obviously in a much lower resolution. I have no idea what resolution this is, but it´s for sure much, much lower than 2160 x 2160 I got in VR.
I´m not sure if you could see the difference in resolution as you couldn´t see the difference from real stereoscopic 3-D to ´fake´stereoscopic  3-D, but it´s pretty obvious, that it is neither the same format as rendered for VR nor the same resolution as rendered for the VR pipeline.

The good thing is, that the image seen on the flatscreen is such low resolution ( if the box in the DCS VR options is unchecked ) that the impact on overall performance is minimized. But I wouldn´t think of something like DCS creates a clone monitor or something.

Also I was thinking how other VR apps and flight sims usually handles the image on flatscreen, when in VR. DCS might be very special in handling this, but that doesn´t mean, it´s better or worse.      

 

[Jayhawk1971]

I tried this yesterday and could not see any difference, other than a slight (but noticeable) drop in performance. I'm on a Vive Pro with SteamVR, so maybe the effect is dependent on the headset. 

"Testbed" was the F-16 single mission on the Nevada map ("Home on the Range", I believe?).

[schurem]

That might well be. I'm on openXR instead of SteamVR.

[Gunfreak]

Didn't notice any difference, and you have to chance back to 1 monitor if you wanna watch a track. Which requires a restart of the game. So just a lot of bother.

[sirrah]

Fwiw: I also just tried switching to stereo, but did not see any change

GTX1080ti, Reverb G1, SteamVR

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

No difference, not making anything even more enjoyable.

[Rosebud47]

It might appear confusing, that some see the difference and some not, but there seems to be an answer to that.

In advanced, let´s have a look again on what the "Stereo" option in DCS does, like @draconus quoted before:

"Stereo – Pilot video will be split into a stereoscopic pair and output separately. This should only be used by players with stereoscopic display setups."

With regard to this my conclusion still is, that if the monitor is not set to "Stereo" for VR, DCS runs in ´single_pass_stereo´or ´single_pass_instancing´ mode in VR ( unless a ED developer does correct this assumption ). 

Assuming the "Stereo" option does nothing or is "placebo" is nonsense.

Also the ED developer did a really good job to provide the option for switching to stereo-mode.

Here is an interesting read about this option:

Single-pass-stereo: wrong depth cues, discomfort and potential risks

Also an intersting read, which could give an answer, why the difference by switching to stereo is obvious for some and not perceptible for others.

Single pass stereo: the artifacts with HP Reverb G2

tl;dr: It depends on the headset.

No intention to convince anybody! I just want to get the best out of my own VR setup and share my experience by doing so. 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Rosebud47

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

New OB is out!

[corbu1]

Thanks for the fix of the AH64D tailrotor VRS effect….Can‘t wait checking it.

Edited September 30, 2022 by corbu1

[Versor]

Alt + enter still not working?