known Multiplayer: TADS state desyncs between client CPG and host pilot when using LMC

[piipu]

Noticed a nasty bug related to a client CPG using LMC (ground stabilization) on his TADS. When LMC is enabled, on the gunner's view the TADS keeps painting the selected ground spot perfectly. But on the host (pilot) end, the TADS heading is not synchronized perfectly. It jitters constantly and accumulates error on the painted position over time. This means that a missile launched at a target with LMC enabled, will miss, as the missile homes on the pilot's opinion of the TADS paint. Here's a youtube vid showing the error:

The poor framerate was caused by the recording software so ignore that. During the entire flight of the missile, on the gunner's view, the t-90 is painter perfectly. The error happens only on the pilot's end.

Edited March 18, 2022 by piipu

[Salvin49]

We have had this issue as well.

[FullMetal_cooKie]

Yes we have the same issue.

 

*edit I just watched wags' new video, ED knows about it.

Edited March 18, 2022 by FullMetal_cooKie

[NineLine]

This is known, thanks!

[fastfed]

Playing with a friend, he's the gunner.

We are doing everything right (based on the videos and manual)

he finds a bad guy, locks it up, lases, fires and it might track it might not. when it does track its all over the place and misses by a mile or a little.

we get pylon angle issues all the time, its as if the target is right under us, but its not, its 6 or 7 miles ahead.

I notice when I put my tads on, to see his target mine will be different then his, is this what the bug is?

 

[Insanatrix]

I can't speak for multiplayer but using the George AI, I've noticed the Hellfire's going long frequently. I don't know if that's a bug or if it's just my inability to keep this thing in a hover.

[Devrim]

A replay track would be great to track the issue faster.

[fastfed]

I can record it I guess but I'm thinking this is common.

and as for the hover, yea, how did this thing not release without an autohover ?

 

 

 

[Insanatrix]

26 minutes ago, fastfed said:

I can record it I guess but I'm thinking this is common.

and as for the hover, yea, how did this thing not release without an autohover ?

 

 

 

I don't think it has one TBH. My issue is just how squirrely it feels in a hover and the collective seems to be very weak and erratic. Normal flight is fine. As for the Hellfire's, you have to keep the helo very stable in order for them to hit, throughout the flight of the missile. Even still, I've had them go long for no reason and I have the TADS up on my screen and can see he's keeping it on the target. 

[LooseSeal]

1 minute ago, Insanatrix said:

I don't think it has one TBH.

It doesn't. I think a lot of users should start writing strongly worded letters to Boeing.

As for hovering. I don't think it's as difficult as some think. It really seems to come down to setting your curves right, and using trim properly. The former being most important for me.

And keeping your eyes outside on a fixed point on the ground, rather than that annoying little circle on the IHADSS.

[VDV]

Laser Hellfires work's pretty fine for me, and they're very accurate. Last night i destroyed two tanks from 9+km. You just need to aim well and press and hold second detent for laser during all the way of missile.

[clayvt]

Is the target out in the open or near things? Might want to try the different laser return setting  I don’t know exactly where it is but it was mentioned in wag’s hellfire video. 
 

[comcat]

Hellfire works great for me with george.... gotta be patient and not scream along at 100kts

 

[TobiasA]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb comcat:

Hellfire works great for me with george.... gotta be patient and not scream along at 100kts

 

Are you in a hover?

Update: You are awesome man. When your hover is alright, George is actually hitting something!

Edited March 19, 2022 by TobiasA

[piipu]

Could be the same as this bug. With us, it works fine as long as LMC is not used. This means you can't realistically shoot from anything but a hover, but at least you can make decent use of the hellfires.

[Insanatrix]

3 hours ago, LooseSeal said:

It doesn't. I think a lot of users should start writing strongly worded letters to Boeing.

As for hovering. I don't think it's as difficult as some think. It really seems to come down to setting your curves right, and using trim properly. The former being most important for me.

And keeping your eyes outside on a fixed point on the ground, rather than that annoying little circle on the IHADSS.

It's not difficult, it's the trim system that makes it difficult. I've had situations where trimmed for flight, I go to hover and I spin in circles only to have to trim two to three times full deflection of rudder to counter the spin.  It also feels very unstable below 40 knots. the collective is very wonky, and with any weapon loadouts it feels like it just doesn't have enough power for a hover. I can barely get it to hover, and I don't mean stability wise I mean I slowly descend, throughout the collective range.

In regards to Hellfire's though the heli has to be stable, as in not wobbling or traveling too fast, or else they tend to go long. The OP's problem though I think is a sync'ing issue.

[LooseSeal]

3 hours ago, Dzsekeb said:

It does, it should be the attitude and altitude hold modes

Attitude and altitude hold do not equal an autohover. So no, it doesn't.

Altitude hold is not implemented. Attitude hold works absolutely fine as far as I'm concerned.

In terms of flight dynamics, my main issue at the moment is how she seems to absolutely nose-dive down when I reduce the collective in any meaningful way below around 50-60kts. The aircraft is utterly suicidal at times. BUT - Given the amount of time the SMEs have spent in it, then I have to assume it's accurate. We're all complaining about how difficult it is for us, but if this is what the actual pilots think it's like, then who are we to argue with them? Just have to get used to it, and master it!

 

[poochies]

Are you guys firing in DIR mode ? HIGH requires you designate a spot then fire hellfire in that area as LOAL launch then within 10 seconds lase the target that's in Wags newer launch video not sure if this would help 

[Shmegegge 1-1 Aero]

I had this issue with my friend on a large issue.  We did everything exactly as the manual says but our Hellfires never tracked, even after making sure our LRFD and missile were on a code that was most likely not being used (I think it was Code L).  Then we switched to a private server and everything worked perfectly.  I am attaching the track of our attempt on the large server, hopefully it isn't too long.  If anyone can find the problem, I would love to know.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1E-47zobxotLoAsZr-liNDIOo91K1_mT4?usp=sharing

Edited March 20, 2022 by Shmegegge 1-1 Aero
Changed the link

[Crptalk]

From my experience in MP;

Half the time the hellfire will go for the point past the target where the laser is hitting the ground, as if the target was never there.

Half the time the hellfire actually goes for where the laser is hitting the target.

And for far shots with some crosswind, the hellfire will begin to wiggle a lot at around 10 seconds until impact. This greatly reduces the speed of the hellfire and often causes them to miss.

[Insanatrix]

2 hours ago, LooseSeal said:

Attitude and altitude hold do not equal an autohover. So no, it doesn't.

Altitude hold is not implemented. Attitude hold works absolutely fine as far as I'm concerned.

In terms of flight dynamics, my main issue at the moment is how she seems to absolutely nose-dive down when I reduce the collective in any meaningful way below around 50-60kts. The aircraft is utterly suicidal at times. BUT - Given the amount of time the SMEs have spent in it, then I have to assume it's accurate. We're all complaining about how difficult it is for us, but if this is what the actual pilots think it's like, then who are we to argue with them? Just have to get used to it, and master it!

 

I'm assuming most of the FM stuff is correct and I don't have to like it, but I think some of the issues with trim could be addressed with a smart trim reset since about 95% of us don't have FFB or mechanically held hardware. I also wonder if the collective is basically useful in only 10% or so if it's range. I sneeze on it and I'm either climbing or descending 5 degrees. 

[XPACT]

2 hours ago, LooseSeal said:

Attitude and altitude hold do not equal an autohover. So no, it doesn't.

Altitude hold is not implemented. Attitude hold works absolutely fine as far as I'm concerned.

 

Do you know what is this "position" mode that I assume is not implemented yet?

[fastfed]

I will get a track file.

 

I cannot believe a 1986 fully automated.computer controlled helo does not have auto hover. 

 

This seems VERY strange to me.

 

 

[Jester2138]

Guys, of course the Apache has a hover hold (via position and altitude hold). It's even mentioned in the EA Guide that you all hopefully are reading. However, it doesn't work yet.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Jester2138

[oscar19681]

Given the fact that we have no training scenario for Hellfire employment yet i had the same problem with Hellfires missing the lased target. But i had figured it out, when you launch the Hellfire the lase is dumped because of it and you must reengage the Laser range finder/laser marker. For best results is Best  to keep target lased after launch for the hellfire to zero in on bringing some serious hurtin.