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If an elite DCS:BS player takes the real KA-50...


Ferski
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Considering the realism of the sim.. could he be able to startup the real machine or even flying and do "stuff"?.

I suposse there are hidden steps or procedures that can´t be simmulated and others that simply aren´t. But how many of them?.

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IMO, if the startup proceidure is identical and you follow the proceidure and timing, I bet you could start the real Ka-50.

 

Flying might be a completely different story.

 

Having flown a real cesna and one in Flight Simulator... there is much more than knowing what to pull and what to press to flying.

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If said named pilot already has some high performance rotary wing training... maybe.

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Real life flying (of all sorts) is very difficult to compare to sim flying. The physical sensations associated with real life flying have a very great impact on your ability to control the aircraft. However, in my opinion, the greatest difference lies in the improbabilities of real world physics. Air, weather, and aircraft are all instable and react to so many more factors than a computer flight simulation can... well... simulate.

 

Switchology, however, is a different matter. It is obvious that DCS:BS does an incredible job of copying the real life systems of the KA-50, but there's a lot more to start-up, even, than switches. Consider coordinating with ground crew, performing a proper pre-flight, or even just strapping yourself in! ;)

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I would think it may be even harder to fly the simulation than the real thing because you lack the peripheral vision, and the dexterity of being able to click the buttons and turn knobs much easier as in real life. You would also get other cues like G-forces etc that would give a a pilot flying the real thing an advantage.

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I would think it may be even harder to fly the simulation than the real thing because you lack the peripheral vision' date=' and the dexterity of being able to click the buttons and turn knobs much easier as in real life. You would also get other cues like G-forces etc that would give a a pilot flying the real thing an advantage.[/quote']

 

Without going into a long winded discussion on the matter, I tend to agree, if the simulation can simulate many of those influencing factors. It's a balance that BS seems to have nailed pretty much perfectly IMO.

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After talking to several RW pilots (fixed wing), they say flying a sim is harder than the real thing. One thing they all complain about (interestingly) is how much delay there is between moving the controls and getting a response. I can't say I notice it, but then I'm usually using a computer when I'm not sleeping! :D

 

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"Real life flying (of all sorts) is very difficult to compare to sim flying. The physical sensations associated with real life flying have a very great impact on your ability to control the aircraft. However, in my opinion, the greatest difference lies in the improbabilities of real world physics. Air, weather, and aircraft are all instable and react to so many more factors than a computer flight simulation can... well... simulate."

Amen to that brother! :) I flew flightsim for years before taking real flight lessons in a Cessna 172. And man was I in for a shock! Yeah I knew the instruments and what they did (thanks to flightsim) but the actual control and feel of flight was an eye opener. Took me awhile to get used to turbulance and what the wind was doing to the aircraft and how to master the control of it. There are so many factors that go into mastering the real thing, takeoffs, landings, maintaining heading & altitude and proper airspeeds........all while navigating and communicating. It's a lot......but I must say, it's the most rewarding thing I've ever done. Just wish I had the funds to keep doing it :(

 

I think my biggest challenge was crosswind landings..... after I learned to accept the normallity of turbulance. Flightsim just didn't prepare me for how bumpy it can get and the challenge of maintaining control under such conditions!

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A few months a go, this is how I answered the same question: will a realistic hockey simulation teach you how to ice skate?

I would think it may be even harder to fly the simulation than the real thing because you lack the peripheral vision, and the dexterity of being able to click the buttons and turn knobs much easier as in real life. You would also get other cues like G-forces etc that would give a a pilot flying the real thing an advantage.
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I can't comment on the KA50.

 

But being a dodo sim pilot before I got my commercial rotary license helped, I got up to speed very quickly.

 

But and I am 100% certain that if any sim pilot, no matter how good tried to fly a real helicopter without an instructor would certainly crash.

 

Fixed wing on the hand, I think a good sim cessna 172 pilot could fly a Cessna 172. Not at all well, but they could. A 172 is easy to land, but to land well is actually surprisingly difficult.

 

In real life VFR flying you spend alot of time flying attitudes, not instruments. Sim pilots spend too much time looking at gauges and find it very hard to transition at first to visual flying.

 

Flying by the seat of your pants is also a myth, you will crash if you fly by the seat of your pants if you lose visual cues.

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"In Russia, they call this the "ass-meter." :) "

 

hahaha........ I remember how my stomach dropped the first few times I did stalls & recovery! When that nose drop below the horizon it's an eye opener....... theres nothing like making a fixed wing aircraft come to a stop in midair! The thing want to fly and you force it to behave like a chopper :)

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How many of these things are actually flyable today?

 

eight? or maybe less?

 

the mind shudders to think of a sim pilot strapping in to the real thing--of course compared to somebody who knew nothing about the KA-50, the chances of getting pilot and aircraft back in one piece would be much improved.

 

It's too bad we don't have a prop sim--a la il2, with the realism of BS.

 

I'd say the BS pilot would stand a better chance of survival in the Ka-50 than an IL2 pilot would in an LA-7.

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I learned to fly on FS

 

I can tell you this, I had flown flight Sim for a while and I went out and bought an ultra light plane, I did about 20 crow hops on the runway to get a feel of what it felt like to take off and land, then I took off and flew the pattern just like I did in FS9, I made one low pass went around and did a touch n go the next pass, I thought it was easy and mentioned it to a friend who owned a C152. Well he took me to task and came with me but let me do everything the first time myself and I had no big problems. I think the hardest thing for a sim pilot will be getting use to talking on the radio's and changing all the freq's.

Knowing the controls of a Helo, if you flew it like a plane doing a running takeoff and a slow run on landing you could probably pull it off, but as soon as you tried to hover you would probably get into a figure 8 with the stick and never regain control.

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Without going into a long winded discussion on the matter, I tend to agree, if the simulation can simulate many of those influencing factors. It's a balance that BS seems to have nailed pretty much perfectly IMO.

 

A good analogy would be driving a real car vs. driving a car simulation. It might be just me but for me it's easier to drive a real car than a car simulation. You just don't have all the senses to help you in a simulation. However, I'm not saying that if you can drive a car in a simulation, that you can drive in real life (or deserve a drivers license - lol). But if someone were to have the same amount of stick time in a real BS as they did on the DCS:BS, I would say it would end up easier flying the real thing.

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While there is a lot of things that are debatable I know a couple of things that I can safely call facts...

 

I never ever had to look at the yaw ball/string to know if I was flying co-ordinated.

 

I didn't require a machine beeping like a madman to know I had hit or was approaching VNE, or stall... etc.

 

"Seat of your pants" while not being the be all and end all was in fact very very important. Most of my information did infact come from my ass :D

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I suppose start would be quite easy (but IMO still alot harder than in BS due of big stress, respossibility for big chopper, loud of blades ect conditionals....)...

 

About flight... I think it would be much much more difficult than in game. Landing is real problem even for pilots, they need to be very patient and carefully :)

 

In general sitting in warm home we don't have many real conditionals, I mean big stress, real resposibility for a big truck we're flying, and our life in hands... One mistake and we're lost. In game we have respawn, this is why IMo it is really much more easier.

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Knowing the controls of a Helo, if you flew it like a plane doing a running takeoff and a slow run on landing you could probably pull it off, but as soon as you tried to hover you would probably get into a figure 8 with the stick and never regain control.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Fixed wing is alot different to rotary.

 

People who have never flown a rotary always struggle to maintain all three controls. Sure they may have the collective in check and the pedals, but as soon as that cyclic starts misbehaving (usually after 3-4 sceonds) they forget about the pedals and start bucking all over the place.

 

Remember the KA50 is coaxial, so BS sim pilot's have no concept of the correlation of power applied and the resulting torque, let alone the effect of wind on the tail rotor.

 

It's a fine balance and the lack of a tail rotor makes the KA50 alot easier to handle than a conventional heli. But still deadly to anyone without real world experience.

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yeah thats true, as much as I love flying...i always have the "reality factor" in mind when in the real aircraft, knowing that mistakes are costly and can be final! that's what keeps me on my toes when it comes to safety! When I'm in front of my PC, i don't have that on my mind........although I still use the sim seriously most times. But there's a difference when you know you can hit RESET/REFLY :)

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The sim may even be harder to fly. Without peripheral vision and especially G-forces, you have to watch your guages and ASI etc to get an idea what is going on. In the real thing you feel the movements without having to look in the cockpit so much.

 

I had about 10 years FS experience when I went to California on a training course with Applied Materials. I called the local airfield (Henderson) and booked a introduction flight for much cheapness! I told the instructor I had about 3 or 4 hrs on a cessna just so he didn't go on about the very basics. He asked if I was happy to do the takeoff etc and I said why not. I froze when I should have been talking to ATC (Vatsim wasn't around then) so I asked if he could do that.

 

Takeoff was funny, I zig zagged a bit but once I was up, it was soooo much easier than flight sime. The sensation of flying helped a lot. We done some 360 degree steep turns, felt great and I kept my eye on the vsi and help it at zero the whole turn.

 

Landing was good, slight bump, stall horn at about 1ft off the deck and I had the breaks on when I touched as the pedals seemed a bit small for my boat feet.

 

Anyone that hasn't flown in real life but has a lot of flight sim experience should really try it.

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SO back to your question........ in my own experience, I would say, if he had an instructor on board he would probably do pretty good. But even with all of my flightsim experience prior to my first flight lesson.... IF I had taken that Cessna up alone, I probably would have a slim chance of taking off, flying around and landing SAFELY! I most likely would have damaged the plane or killed myself!!! I'm just being honest. Maybe someone else would have done great with no problem....but I doubt it.

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I'm a PPL-A pilot and fly the Piper PA-180 Cherokee. I also had this aircraft in FS2002. Some stuff is MUCH easier in real life, like trimming the aircraft, tuning the radio knobs, etc. However, the thing that will crap the pants of a desktop simmer the first time he wil be in a real aircraft is the fact that the beast is actually MOVING and you will feel the vibrations and G-forces. You will spend much more time looking OUTSIDE the window in a real aircraft rather than watching instruments (at least in VFR flights :) )

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There has been an ongoing debate in learning theory between cognition and skills (or concepts vs practice). You can have a deep understanding of processes without having the actual experience of doing it, and vice-versa. Some have advocated a cognitivist approach to learning, others a practice-based approach.

 

The very strange thing with simulations is that they are actually not that good to learn the skills, but surprisingly they are helping very much with the cognitive part. Simulations offer that part of the experience that helps you better understand the basic concepts. E.g., you can much better grasp what flight dynamics is all about when you have flown a flight sim. Your concepts get richer and better. You understand more relations between them.

 

But paradoxically a sim cannot entirely give you what most people expect them to add: a way to obtain the necessary experience that solidifies true knowledge, the "practice" part. It is interesting to see that those with real flight experience on this forum stress how much it is a different experience.

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